Xbox 360: 512MB Memory or HDD

As the head of MS, would you have chosen:


  • Total voters
    96

Acert93

Artist formerly known as Acert93
Legend
Scenario: You are Steve Balmar. Based on market analysis your mass market price is $300. You cannot go higher with a base product, but you are also going to lose money on your console at launch at the $300 with a base unit with 256MB memory and no HDD. Due to developer demand, competition (PS3), and "future proofing" you MUST upgrade one or the other--but not both, because it would kill profits (re: you are a business). So, what do you choose?

A.) Xbox 360 + 256MB memory + 20GB HDD; or

B.) Xbox 360 + 512MB memory (HDD is an additional addon/separate more expensive SKU).

You get input of Developers, Publishers, Analysts, hardware engineers and so forth. You examine the usefullness of the HDD (specifically how it used, or underused, in Xbox1) and the cost/benefit of more memory (and whether the console can effectively use that much memory).

You make the call:

More Memory or HDD standard?

One or the other.

I am interested to see how people here would have decided. (This either or scenario is based on Epics comments that it was basically the HDD or memory).
 
I would question that market analysis when a handheld like PSP is selling at $250 fairly well, despite having very little for games.

I chose the ram, but I think you should have a 3rd option:

"Screw the Market Analysis, offer one SKU for $360 w/ wireless controller & HD"
 
Price the console as low as you can while still delivering everything you pomised customers would come standard in every X360??

$360 would sell. I'm sure MS could easily include a pack in game or two as well for that price. No one would feel cheated. MS would not be liars, and all would be well in the end.
 
I know there could be more options given than just those two in the poll; as has been said here, and by myself and others in other threads, $360 with hard drive and no-nonsense: that's the way. Being limited to those two choices in the poll though, I would go with the 512MB of memory. However I choose to abstain. ;)
 
Folks you are not looking at the Big Picture. Sure they could sell only one SKU at $360 with a HDD included. But the HDD wound up being one of the most expensive things in the first Xbox. If they want to lower the price later on, it will be extremely difficult with a HDD standard. Harddrives do not scale down in price like everything else in the system. I think everyone just got spoiled with the first Xbox. Now everyone is looking for a freeride again, but I'm sorry the Gravy Train is over. Should have enjoyed it while it lasted :mrgreen:
 
If I only stick to the options available, I'd got for 512Mb & no HDD. Why? Cos it didn't do the PS2 any harm this gen. BUT, I'd also make sure no one was making statements that could lead to people getting the wrong impression. Surprised how emotive this whole thing has been. On other boards I've seen posts like:

"I've been lied to"
"I feel betrayed"
"Game over for MS"
 
Hardknock said:
Folks you are not looking at the Big Picture. Sure they could sell only one SKU at $360 with a HDD included. But the HDD wound up being one of the most expensive things in the first Xbox. If they want to lower the price later on, it will be extremely difficult with a HDD standard. Harddrives do not scale down in price like everything else in the system. I think everyone just got spoiled with the first Xbox. Now everyone is looking for a freeride again, but I'm sorry the Gravy Train is over. Should have enjoyed it while it lasted :mrgreen:

Hardknock I completely agree. Completely. But I don't think now was the time to launch a cheaper SKU; better to do it at a later date IMO. For a launch, I don't know... well - I've given my opinion here and in many other threads. I just don't think this was the best plan. But I do agree that a HDD-less version would have had to come out at some point in time for cost control reasons/in order to achieve better price points.
 
xbdestroya said:
Hardknock I completely agree. Completely. But I don't think now was the time to launch a cheaper SKU; better to do it at a later date IMO. For a launch, I don't know... well - I've given my opinion here and in many other threads. I just don't think this was the best plan. But I do agree that a HDD-less version would have had to come out at some point in time for cost control reasons/in order to achieve better price points.


I agree I think the 2nd SKU would have been better at a later date IMO.

OTOH, if the Core SKU sells like crazy in Europe, and even reasonably well in Japan then they are geniuses right? :D

after all, it's about putting units into more homes which = more game sales.
 
Tap In said:
I agree I think the 2nd SKU would have been better at a later date IMO.

OTOH, if the Core SKU sells like crazy in Europe, and even reasonably well in Japan then they are geniuses right? :D

after all, it's about putting units into more homes which = more game sales.

Yeah, I think for Europe or Japan it makes sense. Well, really Europe in particular, especially since Microsoft is trailblazing on the 'fair' European console pricing.

Japan is either going to buy it or they won't; and if they decide to buy it price won't be much of an issue. When something reaches 'fad' status over there, that's it - it's over! $$$$ :cool:

If the accessory prices weren't so insane, then the 'Core' system might not appear so toxic to begin with.
 
From a business perspective you must

1. Hit a mainstream price target => $300 is pretty much it. You HARDCORE gamers can argue $360 would sell, but if $360 sells $300 sells better... and a HDD does not scale well, so that added cost (lets say $40) is STILL $40 in 4 years. That is the difference between a $99 console and a $139 console in 4 years or a $149 console and $199 console in 2 years. To say, "$360 will sell" is REALLY short sighted from a market perspective.

2. Have a cost analysis for the launch AND long term => You must weight your losses NOW and your long term profitability. The console platform, at some point, MUST turn a profit. Your competition, Sony and Nintendo, will be aggressively hitting price points. Having expensive hardware that does not scale in price means the normal early losses that are typical but ALSO means losses down the road if you remain on a competitive price schedule. Xbox1 anyone?

So with that in mind, no, I don't think from a CORPERATE leadership position where you have promised investors a PROFIT in 2007 that including a ton of Memory or a large HDD is feasible.

It may meet the short term fans price points but you are also tacking on a large amount of money down the road. $50 more in components means 6-12 months longer to hit magic price points.

What is more important, from an investor POV: Hitting $199 in 2006 w/o a HDD or hitting $199 in 2007 with a HDD?

Ditto 256MB memory w/ HDD (just swap out HDD above).

The fact a HDD is a money loser can be seen with the Xbox1 and the fact Sony did not put one standard in the PS2 or PS3--even though Sony knew MS would have one standard. And MS had already, from the beginning, noted that games should work w/o the HDD.

As much as it may not seem like it, when you run a company you do not have unlimited funds. Tough decisions must be made. MS is trying to compete in the home console market which has historically shown to have certain significant price points ($299, $249, $199, $149, $99).

Screwing up my poll ;) and asking Balmar to create a new pricing market/goal for mass market penetration is another poll. :D

I say that because I am not convinced $149 with a HDD is more compelling to consumers than $99 w/o a HDD. Actually, I am pretty convinced hitting $99 is more important from a market perspective than the HDD feature standard.

Again, I dislike the move alot (hahaha if *I* was running MS I would take the loss and hve both LOL! But the scenario was you were Balmar, had helped build the company, had stock, and were accountable to investors) but I think the realities are clear: the HDD AND more memory were not going to hit the strategic price points.

Strateguc Price price points = more sales. More sales = more games & more money.

A HDD, this gen, has not been shown to be a "killer feature" that people are willing to spend more for. Having a lot of games on a reasonably priced console has been.

Ps- For the record most consoles undergo changes from the planned spec, even announced target spec, to the final release product. It is a fact of life and profitability. Yes it stinks it is no longer standard and bad from a support standpoint (basically it loses a lot of support) but as a market view you are the ONLY one doing it. Sony/Nintendo are NOT. With cross platform games important offering features no one supports is wasted money IMO.

I would not say that if more Xbox games made good use of the HDD. But for whatever reason it is really under used. Sad, but true.
 
How much do they really lose on an HDD? $25? So it goes no cheaper than that, but the extras you'd make from dominating the market by being the people's choice of console would more than make up for that. $250 million lost on 10 million units, plus $n hundred million from Live! marketplace as people buy junk (look a flippen' MSN Emoticons, mobile ringtones, screensavers - I'm amazed out how happily people will throw dollars away on insanely cheap to produce merchandise! :oops:) which wouldn't happen if they didn't have Live! or an HDD.

If MS really are going for the convergence market they need a converged device. Giving people the option to avoid the convergence is cutting out your market. Even if they don't care for the idea you give them the option and eventually they'll get suckered into buying maps and music and backdrops and games demos and movie clips and music visualizers and simple puzzle games and pay-per-play tournaments.

So I'd vote take the hit and include all networking and HDD on the base model, make a bigger loss in sales, and bigger takings from long-term transactions.

With the two options available the Extra RAM seems a no brainer to me as a 256 mb machine would be crippled in game content.
 
Acert93 said:
Again, I dislike the move alot (hahaha if *I* was running MS I would take the loss and hve both LOL! But the scenario was you were Balmar, had helped build the company, had stock, and were accountable to investors)
If I was Balmer I'd sell my stock, leave the company, and do whatever I wanted funding my own personal projects instead of stressing out trying to appease insatiable Investors ;)
 
Hardknock said:
Folks you are not looking at the Big Picture. Sure they could sell only one SKU at $360 with a HDD included. But the HDD wound up being one of the most expensive things in the first Xbox. If they want to lower the price later on, it will be extremely difficult with a HDD standard. Harddrives do not scale down in price like everything else in the system. I think everyone just got spoiled with the first Xbox. Now everyone is looking for a freeride again, but I'm sorry the Gravy Train is over. Should have enjoyed it while it lasted :mrgreen:

Ditto on the gravy train ($4B worth)
Ditto on the scaling

x said:
Hardknock I completely agree. Completely. But I don't think now was the time to launch a cheaper SKU; better to do it at a later date IMO. For a launch, I don't know... well - I've given my opinion here and in many other threads. I just don't think this was the best plan. But I do agree that a HDD-less version would have had to come out at some point in time for cost control reasons/in order to achieve better price points.

Ditto. I had the same sentiment in another thread yesterday.

MS will have 2M-3M available this fall. They will sell those at $300, $350, or $400 IMO.

Selling a $360 SKU w/ HDD and a $420 SKU with a ton of extra (maybe two older games) could have gotten the first 3M out the door.

THEN in the Spring (April) do a pre-E3 announcement of a HDD-less SKU :oops: at $300.

So you make hand over fist this fall and get 3M systems with HDD in the market and then move into the lower market at $300, show off a ton of great games at E3 with the lower price, and then hit Fall 2006 hard with

$360 w/ HDD
$300 w/o HDD

And MS is then set for Spring 2007 to drop to $249 AND $299 respectively and hit $199/$249 in 2008.

Really that is a MUCH better idea AND it guarantees the HDD will get the initial boost to make Devs support it.

Instead I see them just offering limited $300 SKUs and milking the $400 units. That is why it has a ton of Junk in it => MS wants it to sell.
 
jvd said:
How about a third option .

both .
How about a fourth option: pack-in an R520.

I mean, hey, as long as we're wishing the demise of the company for our short-term gain, why not?
 
Shifty Geezer said:
If I was Balmer I'd sell my stock, leave the company, and do whatever I wanted funding my own personal projects instead of stressing out trying to appease insatiable Investors ;)

Better yet, sell your stock and finance the HDD yourself... think of it as a way to pay back all of us who have bought your software ;)

Really, if I was him I would have moved on and done more private investing/projects. But that is because running MS would be stressfull. Maybe running MS is what he wants to do? Crazy, but it must be competitive AND very rewarding in that you control the world ;)

On an off hand note I hate the investor model... it puts blood thirsty money hound above employees/the company. Making a profit is not good enough. You need to make quarter on quarter growth. When you are trying to please people, investors, who don't care for the people who made the company or build it up and only are seeking to get a paper reward then you are in trouble. Sure, it is a good way for the company OWNERS to get a return on their investment in creating the company, but gives "investors" control--investors being people who have not invested squat. They put some money down with the goal of getting more back. It is not an investment in the company; more of an investment in their own money's growth.

Oh well... there are reasons I am not at the head of MS and wont get that big promotion to the top of MS either! ;)
 
Please Dork don't be foolish . Both can happen easily . Unless you really believe that hte hardrive costs anywhere near that 100$ mark . I would say it costs them 20-30$ adn ya that is alot of money . But so is including 100$ worth sales free to the console in the form of the premium pack

Get rid of the premium pack and add in the hardrive . Price at 360$ and i am willing to wager ms would end up making more than they will now
 
Heh, I would personally have favored a single $379 SKU at launch with HDD/Wireless controllers, but no headset/remote. Default LIVE membership would still be Silver.

Then, simultaneously with the PS3 release, lower the price of that console to $349 and announce two new SKUs: one at $259 with no HDD/Wireless and no LIVE membership. The other one would be priced at $439 with headset/remote and a Gold LIVE membership.

If you know anyone that wouldn't have been happy with this, then please do so say, I'm curious why. The only thing MS could still have done then is accessory pricing. Ah well. Guess it's a bit late to change things now. And don't tell me $259 would have been too little for the "light" version: 6 months after launch, costs will have gone down, and they'd get a few bucks out of people who want to register for LIVE with that.


Uttar
 
Back
Top