Windows tablets

[liolio]

Has it been reported here that Dell is to pass on Windows RT,Arstechnica makes it sounds like MSFT will be the only vendor supporting Windows RT. Sounds like that OS is in a pretty dire situation...

link to the news:
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013...esnt-give-buyers-a-reason-to-pick-windows-rt/

 

[elroy]

Windows RT will end up replacing/merging with Windows Phone. It's not going anywhere IMO.

 

[Sxotty]

The surface pro I have looks better in the sun than the touch pad , ipad 2 or my older laptop. Its slightly better in the sun than my gf's ipad mini. The are all pretty unusable in the sun

Could be dpi as well (though wait it is the opposite)... Anyway more pixel density usually makes the screen harder to see b/c the backlight has more of the light wasted. Anyway I am debating between TMR (transmissive micro reflective) and transflective now. I have one transflective screen and it is stellar in the daylight. I don't have a TMR screen, but they are supposedly adequate in the daylight and have better colors out of the sun. In addition they are way cheaper to purchase b/c transflective is still niche for outdoor displays that are ruggidized and so forth.

 

[orangpelupa]

Ah, the Vaio Tap 11 price has been announced on some market and its about 1200 dollar (not mention what spec tier).

SONY! thats too expensive :/
surface pro 2 are cheaper, life longer, faster.

 

[eastmen]

Windows RT will end up replacing/merging with Windows Phone. It's not going anywhere IMO.

yup and if intel keeps making strides then we may no longer need arm at all and we can run full windows on our phones !

 

[loekf]

yup and if intel keeps making strides then we may no longer need arm at all and we can run full windows on our phones !

Good then we finally have an (almost) monopoly in mobile as well.

It is about to become time ;-)

 

[zed]

I think it's Intel that have more reason to be worried by arm. Seeing the latest geekbench for the apple 5s. If apple do what they've managed to do a few times and double Perpignan with there new chip and also go from 2 cores to 4 cores the phone CPU will bench the same as my brand new haswell i5. Certainly good enuf to go in a laptop. I'm guessing next year we will start to see arm chips powering laptops

 

[Alexko]

I think it's Intel that have more reason to be worried by arm. Seeing the latest geekbench for the apple 5s. If apple do what they've managed to do a few times and double Perpignan with there new chip and also go from 2 cores to 4 cores the phone CPU will bench the same as my brand new haswell i5. Certainly good enuf to go in a laptop. I'm guessing next year we will start to see arm chips powering laptops

 

[zed]

performance, autocorrect on the phone.

 

[silent_guy]

performance, autocorrect on the phone.

That's what they all say. You've probably just exposed yourself as an insider by accidentally leaking the internal code name!

 

[Alexko]

performance, autocorrect on the phone.

Ah, that makes more sense! I thought it might be a codename I'd missed, or a very peculiar idiom.

Anyway, if you mean performance per clock specifically, that's the sort of thing that gets increasingly difficult, because of the law of diminishing returns. It also tends to hurt performance per watt, unless of course you can compensate with power-efficiency improvements, but those aren't easy either.

Cyclone already has the same performance per clock as AMD's Phenom II, or even slightly more. I wouldn't expect Apple's cores to get anywhere near Haswell in IPC, at least not as long as they have to fit into phones.

That being said, those cores don't need to beat Haswell to go into laptops, so long as Intel-based models are still available.

 

[Mintmaster]

Ah, the Vaio Tap 11 price has been announced on some market and its about 1200 dollar (not mention what spec tier).

SONY! thats too expensive :/
surface pro 2 are cheaper, life longer, faster.

Vaio has always been about margins before volume. The Tap 11 is incredibly thin and light for a Haswell tablet, so Sony will find buyers.

 

[orangpelupa]

And I was considering to buy it
Asus need to announce their Haswell tablet with pen..

Their products usually cheap and have long warranty

 

[Silent_Buddha]

OK, so Fujitsu is now on my radar for a potential dockable tablet this year.

http://techreport.com/news/25481/hi...ps-collide-in-waterproof-fujitsu-convertibles

That Stylistic Q584 sounds quite interesting. Baytrail based 10.1" tablet with a 2560x1600 (16:10) high PPI display. I wonder how well Baytrail's iGPU is going to handle that resolution?

It's also apparently dust proof, alcohol proof, and waterproof. According to its IP rating, it can be continuously submerged in water over 1m in depth.

10 hours battery life, so pretty standard for Baytrail tablets. A bit thicker than standard Baytrail tablets announced so far (guess you have to give up something to be waterproof).

Also has dual digitizer for pen support. Supports up to 4 GB of memory (almost unheard of for a Baytrail based tablet). Has DP instead of HDMI video out (YES!) so you can drive high resolution monitors. Uses mSATA for the SSDs, so should have significantly faster drive performance compared to Baytrail tablets using eMMC based SSDs.

The only downside I see so far is that I don't think the keyboard dock has an extra battery. And it sounds like it's going to be relatively expensive for a Baytrail tablet.

But if they can launch this at around 500 USD or less, I'm likely going to grab one. Unfortunately, I don't think it's going to be less than 500 USD. Fujitsu tablets tend to be priced on the high side.

Regards,
SB

 

[Laurent06]

Even if that wasn't Fujitsu, I guess it would be significantly higher than $500, given that Dell Venue 11 Pro is going to cost $500 and its specs are below (2 GB, 1920x1080, etc.).

And indeed: http://pr.fujitsu.com/jp/news/2013/10/8-1.html?nw=pr
117,100 Yen which is $1200.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

OK, so Fujitsu is now on my radar for a potential dockable tablet this year.

http://techreport.com/news/25481/hi...ps-collide-in-waterproof-fujitsu-convertibles

That Stylistic Q584 sounds quite interesting. Baytrail based 10.1" tablet with a 2560x1600 (16:10) high PPI display. I wonder how well Baytrail's iGPU is going to handle that resolution?

My GPU-Z says the HD4000 at 650MHz does 1.3GPixels/s.
HD4000 has 16 EUs. Baytrail has 4 EUs at about the same clocks (1/4th of the pixel fillrate.. I'm assuming it also has 1/4th of the ROPs?), so 1300/4 is 325MPixels/s.

A 2560*1600 screen displays 4MPixels. Assuming a typical refresh rate of 60Hz, the final image stream requires 4*60= 240MPixels/s.

240MPixel/s requirement for a 325MPixel/s theoretical fillrate. That's going to be pretty tight.. I wouldn't expect a fluid interface from that.
I don't think Baytrail was ever designed to drive such huge resolutions.

FullHD tablets should be fine, but "4k" displays are definitely best left for the "big boys" - Haswell Y-series. AMD's Kabini should also do fine.

 

[Laurent06]

My GPU-Z says the HD4000 at 650MHz does 1.3GPixels/s.
HD4000 has 16 EUs. Baytrail has 4 EUs at about the same clocks (1/4th of the pixel fillrate.. I'm assuming it also has 1/4th of the ROPs?), so 1300/4 is 325MPixels/s.

A 2560*1600 screen displays 4MPixels. Assuming a typical refresh rate of 60Hz, the final image stream requires 4*60= 240MPixels/s.

240MPixel/s requirement for a 325MPixel/s theoretical fillrate. That's going to be pretty tight.. I wouldn't expect a fluid interface from that.
I don't think Baytrail was ever designed to drive such huge resolutions.

FullHD tablets should be fine, but "4k" displays are definitely best left for the "big boys" - Haswell Y-series. AMD's Kabini should also do fine.

Intel Bay Trail demo tablets were running at 2560x1440, and the "reviewers" didn't seem to complain about UI lags.

 

[tangey]

My GPU-Z says the HD4000 at 650MHz does 1.3GPixels/s.
HD4000 has 16 EUs. Baytrail has 4 EUs at about the same clocks (1/4th of the pixel fillrate.. I'm assuming it also has 1/4th of the ROPs?), so 1300/4 is 325MPixels/s.

A 2560*1600 screen displays 4MPixels. Assuming a typical refresh rate of 60Hz, the final image stream requires 4*60= 240MPixels/s.

240MPixel/s requirement for a 325MPixel/s theoretical fillrate. That's going to be pretty tight.. I wouldn't expect a fluid interface from that.
I don't think Baytrail was ever designed to drive such huge resolutions.

FullHD tablets should be fine, but "4k" displays are definitely best left for the "big boys" - Haswell Y-series. AMD's Kabini should also do fine.

Anandtech got 1.1Gpix/s in Glbench, on their baytrail review, which was an intel reference design 2560x1440 display.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7314/intel-baytrail-preview-intel-atom-z3770-tested/2

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Anandtech got 1.1Gpix/s in Glbench, on their baytrail review, which was an intel reference design 2560x1440 display.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7314/intel-baytrail-preview-intel-atom-z3770-tested/2

Oops.
So they probably kept the amount of ROPs from the higher end iGPUs.

I guess the baytrail is good for that resolution, then. At least for 2D.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Even if that wasn't Fujitsu, I guess it would be significantly higher than $500, given that Dell Venue 11 Pro is going to cost $500 and its specs are below (2 GB, 1920x1080, etc.).

And indeed: http://pr.fujitsu.com/jp/news/2013/10/8-1.html?nw=pr
117,100 Yen which is $1200.

Ouch. That's about what I figured it would likely come out around. Although I was a bit hopeful. Basically the price of a good Haswell based tablet from other vendors. Fujitsu, however, has almost always marketed their tablets towards professional business use and thus are generally more rugged, full featured, and significantly more expensive than most of their competition.

You generally don't see vendors advertising their IPxx level for dust and moisture protection, for example.

Regards,
SB