Windows tablets

[Deleted member 13524]

Oak Trail has a PowerVR SGX 535 @ 400MHz, C-50 has a Cedar @ 280MHz.

It's basically 2vec2 shaders + 2 TMUs @ 400MHz versus 16vec5 shaders + 8 TMUs @ 280MHz.
It's not even in the same order of magnitude in performance.
That Oak Trail would have to clock its GPU at ~1GHz in order to get competitive with the iPad2, let alone C-50 (which should be a lot closer to NGP in 3D performance).

Intel is flopping badly with their implementation of PowerVR GPUs in low-power Atoms.
Oak Trail has probably the same performance as the GMA950 in the first Atoms.

 

[Ailuros]

Power consumption is the most important factor for an embedded device like a tablet and even worse a smart-phone. AMD's future tablet SoCs will inevitably have reduced power consumption, which most likely also means that one shouldn't expect comparable performance to a C50@280MHz. Of course is it very likely AMD's future tablet SoCs will have a performance advantage against Intel's Z670, but then again Intel is also struggling to serve with the same SoC tablets and smart-phones, which AMD doesn't at least for the time being.

IMHO AMD is on the right track with its general concentration regarding GPU performance with all of its Fusion SoCs. A point where Intel is still lacking behind.

I've said it again if Intel is smart their next generation of embedded SoCs would contain something like a SGX544@=/>400MHz.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I fail to see how a Windows 7 based tablet makes sense. What applications are people wanting to run on such a device that would be properly usable with a touchscreen? If you need to have the keyboard, you're suddenly using your tablet as a netbook.

At least, the price looks good, let's wait for real tests about battery life.

The handwriting recognition for Win7 is absolutely phenomenal. It can easily work out "chicken scratch" handwriting that I can't even decifer that my friend writes.

Other than heavy document editing there generally isn't a huge need for a keyboard as long as the slate features an active digitizer (preferably from Wacom, the other's aren't nearly as good, IMO). And that's where many of the early Win7 slates totally fail. They have the capacitive touch screen like the iPad, but lack an active digitizer which allows you to use a Windows slate to its fullest. Even using handwriting to enter in URLs for websites is a piece of cake as long as it has an active digitizer.

If you get a chance, try out someone's convertable tablet or one of the newer Win7 slates (make sure it has an active digitizer) with Microsoft's OneNote installed. That really is THE benchmark utility for a slate/tablet. There is nothing even remotely as good as that on any competitor's slate. I keep hoping Microsoft expands upon that application including incorporating elements of it into future Windows OSes.

The only other complaint I have is that most slates still use TN panels which are absolutely not good for a slate device where you might be viewing it from any arbitrary angle. This and dual capacitive touch with active digitizer screens are still in its infancy with regards to palm rejection when using a stylus. Hopefully that evolves greatly over the next year or so.

Regards,
SB

 

[Arwin]

Although I have a very nice handwriting (in fact, I have several ), I can't write even a fraction of the speed I can type, and I can't write more than a paragraph without my wrist cramping up these days. I can see the advantage of a Pen being a little more precise in an environment not fully optimized for touch, but generally I wouldn't want to have to use a pen with my tablet. There are definitely people who still would though, because they do in fact like writing.

 

[Ike Turner]

The handwriting recognition for Win7 is absolutely phenomenal. It can easily work out "chicken scratch" handwriting that I can't even decifer that my friend writes.

Other than heavy document editing there generally isn't a huge need for a keyboard as long as the slate features an active digitizer (preferably from Wacom, the other's aren't nearly as good, IMO). And that's where many of the early Win7 slates totally fail. They have the capacitive touch screen like the iPad, but lack an active digitizer which allows you to use a Windows slate to its fullest. Even using handwriting to enter in URLs for websites is a piece of cake as long as it has an active digitizer.

If you get a chance, try out someone's convertable tablet or one of the newer Win7 slates (make sure it has an active digitizer) with Microsoft's OneNote installed. That really is THE benchmark utility for a slate/tablet. There is nothing even remotely as good as that on any competitor's slate. I keep hoping Microsoft expands upon that application including incorporating elements of it into future Windows OSes.

The only other complaint I have is that most slates still use TN panels which are absolutely not good for a slate device where you might be viewing it from any arbitrary angle. This and dual capacitive touch with active digitizer screens are still in its infancy with regards to palm rejection when using a stylus. Hopefully that evolves greatly over the next year or so.

Regards,
SB

The Asus EP1 has all the things you are looking for: IPS screen, Wacom Active Digitizer = Multi-touch capasitive digitizer. Only downside is the low battery life...

 

[eastmen]

Although I have a very nice handwriting (in fact, I have several ), I can't write even a fraction of the speed I can type, and I can't write more than a paragraph without my wrist cramping up these days. I can see the advantage of a Pen being a little more precise in an environment not fully optimized for touch, but generally I wouldn't want to have to use a pen with my tablet. There are definitely people who still would though, because they do in fact like writing.

i can still write faster than i can type on an ipad or andriod tablet however. I don't know if it will be the same for u , but thats how it is currently for me

 

[eastmen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw7P6XkXP3A

nice little tablet for $450 , no pen input it seems. The guy mesured at the wall 36W while watching a youtube video on the thing. Which is pretty good.

Its going to be really hard to wait till the fall to buy one but i really want more cpu power

 

[AlphaWolf]

well ncix (the place doing the unboxing) wants $650 for that thing, where did you see it for $450

 

[eastmen]

hmm mabye i have it confused with the a500 from them which is $450. Still not bad at $550

 

[Laurent06]

The guy mesured at the wall 36W while watching a youtube video on the thing. Which is pretty good.

36W? That seems crazy for a tablet.

Change of orientation is very slow (~4:15). Boot time looks bad too.

 

[Xmas]

The guy mesured at the wall 36W while watching a youtube video on the thing. Which is pretty good.

36W would be absolutely terrible for a tablet. But in reality all he's measuring is the power used to charge the batteries, and the power meter probably doesn't show true RMS power.

 

[Laurent06]

36W would be absolutely terrible for a tablet. But in reality all he's measuring is the power used to charge the batteries, and the power meter probably doesn't show true RMS power.

That's what I realised after posting... I guess we'll have to wait for real battery tests.

Also isn't CPU usage too high when playing Bunny? I wonder if he hadn't too many background processes running.

 

[eastmen]

36W? That seems crazy for a tablet.

Change of orientation is very slow (~4:15). Boot time looks bad too.

yea i have no idea about power usage and what not , not my strong point at all.


Anyway orientation is slower but some other tests have it loading content compared to an ipad 2 and it smokes it in loading up websites.


The guy only took it out of the box a little before the filmed that. i'm sure with some tweaks it will perform better than it did out of the box. Remember its pretty cheap at $550 with keyboard dock.

Like i said i'm hopping for a 1.6ghz dual core by the fall

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Orientation change isn't "slow", it just isn't "smooth".

And that honestly goes right to the rock bottom of my priorities in a portable device like that.
Performance, functionality and software library in that tablet smokes everything with an ARM CPU, so far.

 

[Florin]

Ok great demonstration of what you can expect if you toss standard components together instead of treating tablets like a separate class of device. Featuritis may be the way to the heart of a handful of techies and this thing may well have some undead life in it as a mandated item in corporate environments but I sincerely doubt that this Iconia is going anywhere with consumers. Hopefully another manufacturer can do more with the Windows tablet concept.

 

[eastmen]

Ok great demonstration of what you can expect if you toss standard components together instead of treating tablets like a separate class of device. Featuritis may be the way to the heart of a handful of techies and this thing may well have some undead life in it as a mandated item in corporate environments but I sincerely doubt that this Iconia is going anywhere with consumers. Hopefully another manufacturer can do more with the Windows tablet concept.

of course it wont go anywhere with consumers , i bet it wont even be marketed.

Apple , motoralla are all throwing tons of money at advertising their tablets. I'm sure the iconia may do alot better if it got even a fraction of the advertising budget that the ipad is enjoying

 

[Florin]

All the media exposure in the world wouldn't change the awfulness of this attempt at building an appealing tablet device.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Ok great demonstration of what you can expect if you toss standard components together instead of treating tablets like a separate class of device.

And exactly what do you mean with "treating tablets like a separate class of devices"?
Are there any special demands like having a cellphone CPU and a cellphone OS?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

The Asus EP1 has all the things you are looking for: IPS screen, Wacom Active Digitizer = Multi-touch capasitive digitizer. Only downside is the low battery life...

Yup that's high on my list. But it's going to have to wait as I'd just bought a Win7 slate about a month before it released. Le sigh.

So I'm basically waiting to see how the market shakes out for Win7 slates. In other words waiting to see if there will eventually be a CULV Sandy Bridge device released which would feature lower power consumption and better graphics capabilities.

Although I have a very nice handwriting (in fact, I have several ), I can't write even a fraction of the speed I can type, and I can't write more than a paragraph without my wrist cramping up these days. I can see the advantage of a Pen being a little more precise in an environment not fully optimized for touch, but generally I wouldn't want to have to use a pen with my tablet. There are definitely people who still would though, because they do in fact like writing.

I abhor touch optimized interfaces and UI's as they tend to take up an excessive amount of screen space to allow for the inherent inaccuracy of a capacitive touch screen combined with the large irregularities of human fingers. Fine for media centric devices, not really optimal for other uses, IMO.

I can also type far faster than I can write (150+ cpm). My point, however, was that due to the excellant handwriting recognition and applications like OneNote, I rarely feel that I need a keyboard. And it is far faster (for me at least) using handwriting than it is to use an onscreen keyboard to enter text.

But, yes, if your useage patterns don't require anything requiring much accuracy (media consumption and touch games as examples) then lack of an active digitizer isn't exactly a bad thing.

Anyway orientation is slower but some other tests have it loading content compared to an ipad 2 and it smokes it in loading up websites.

The first thing I disabled on my Win7 slate was the automatic orientation change. I found that it would tend to change orientation when it was supposed to but not when I wanted it to. For example, if I'm laying on my side in bed browsing a website, working on a document or playing a game. I don't want the screen oriented with the bottom facing the ground as my head is horizontal on my pillow. But auto orientation wants the bottom to always be towards the ground. Drove me nuts so I set it for manual orientation change only.

Regards,
SB

 

[Florin]

And exactly what do you mean with "treating tablets like a separate class of devices"?
Are there any special demands like having a cellphone CPU and a cellphone OS?

Well, that certainly won't hurt the critical portability and battery life aspects of your tablet experience, and I honestly don't see much of a case for bringing x86 compatibility to this form factor. So far people seem to have done well shooting for the upper high end of the 'cellphone CPU' spectrum, which works well because the higher resolution demands are offset nicely by the additional room for battery area in tablets. Luckily, ARM SOCs still have a fair bit of headroom to grow more powerful before invading on C50 territory energywise.

As for OS, did you happen to notice that this thing actually features a Windows button and a start menu? This interface paradigm is as misplaced here as it was in Windows mobile, and the sooner some touch friendly replacement is standardised on the better. But honestly, Acer just isn't the kind of company that has either the ambition or the pull to make that happen.

Most importantly though, tablets should be inviting and attractive. Most people just wouldn't want this plastic eyesore messing up the feng shui of their homes.