Will PS4 finally posed a threat to PC?
- Thread starter gongo
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I think commitment is important for PS3 could have reached higher heights if Sony had just changed the netfront browser to FF or Chrome, so simple yet they are ignoring it. Yes the ram and user interface would limit PS3 but it may help to increase the number of PS3 compatible websites!
PS4...i think we should not be thinking of a typical desktop GUI...how about another category in XMB called Apps, you would be able to create new file/folders within and it would have...well...apps..apps that would deemed necessity for average computing! I would say PS4 would not kill the PC because of how much PC apps there already are, or now that people are owing more than one gadget....but PS4 if Sony include the following ability to read and edit many file formats (eg, pdf, doc, xvid, iso, flv, ppt, jav, etc)....maybe have Open office or Google docs and a Music/Video editor and full IM support (not just friend's list, but something like Trillian or Google Talk) ... in XMB... i think they can attain something special with PS4! Sony need to open up even more to those popular apps!
We already seen photo editor... google search...facebook...hulu...netflix integration this gen...next gen we could only expect moar! Not to displace PC...but for the average PS4 user to do enough work on it that one may not need to boot up your PC for a week..a month! There are some similarities in view with Chrome OS objective...
PS4...i think we should not be thinking of a typical desktop GUI...how about another category in XMB called Apps, you would be able to create new file/folders within and it would have...well...apps..apps that would deemed necessity for average computing! I would say PS4 would not kill the PC because of how much PC apps there already are, or now that people are owing more than one gadget....but PS4 if Sony include the following ability to read and edit many file formats (eg, pdf, doc, xvid, iso, flv, ppt, jav, etc)....maybe have Open office or Google docs and a Music/Video editor and full IM support (not just friend's list, but something like Trillian or Google Talk) ... in XMB... i think they can attain something special with PS4! Sony need to open up even more to those popular apps!
We already seen photo editor... google search...facebook...hulu...netflix integration this gen...next gen we could only expect moar! Not to displace PC...but for the average PS4 user to do enough work on it that one may not need to boot up your PC for a week..a month! There are some similarities in view with Chrome OS objective...
I cannot see it replacing PCs. Maybe doing a better job at what it does now (ie net browsing/media playing etc.)
Whatever happens I can see the GameOS and "Other OS" (which we all assume to be Googles Chrome OS) being entirely separate as they were this time round.
Developers and publishers will definitely not want to see something as hackable as an OS running on a games system especially as Sonys recent kung fu has been very strong this time round.
Whatever happens I can see the GameOS and "Other OS" (which we all assume to be Googles Chrome OS) being entirely separate as they were this time round.
Developers and publishers will definitely not want to see something as hackable as an OS running on a games system especially as Sonys recent kung fu has been very strong this time round.
Unless, the masses start using an office desk as their living room's entertainment centers, console will never replace PCs.
Has anyone here ever used their 50 inch TV to write a 10 page paper, work on a spread sheet project or any other typical productive use of a PC? Do you realize how much information can comfortably fit inside the dimension of a PC display screen when your eyes are just 1-2 feet away.
I have never tried to consume massive amounts of text from 6-8 feet away on a 50 inch screen, but I hardly doubt its as easy as doing it from a 24 inch display 1.5 feet away. I can only imagine the amount of eye strain involved, most people experience with reading a good amount of text from more than a few feet away are chalk boards. Nevertheless, that usually using a text size that not really conducive to the amount of text information you can comfortable handle while using your typical PC setup.
The PS4 or any other console ability to replace the PC isn't a question of power but of software and ergonomics. You're going to have to overcome both for console tech to replace PC in any substanial manner.
Has anyone here ever used their 50 inch TV to write a 10 page paper, work on a spread sheet project or any other typical productive use of a PC? Do you realize how much information can comfortably fit inside the dimension of a PC display screen when your eyes are just 1-2 feet away.
I have never tried to consume massive amounts of text from 6-8 feet away on a 50 inch screen, but I hardly doubt its as easy as doing it from a 24 inch display 1.5 feet away. I can only imagine the amount of eye strain involved, most people experience with reading a good amount of text from more than a few feet away are chalk boards. Nevertheless, that usually using a text size that not really conducive to the amount of text information you can comfortable handle while using your typical PC setup.
The PS4 or any other console ability to replace the PC isn't a question of power but of software and ergonomics. You're going to have to overcome both for console tech to replace PC in any substanial manner.
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Consoles are already viable substitutes for PCs depending on the functions the consumer requires of the device. And PCs (and smartphones) are and will continue to be viable substitutes for consoles, as well (see the rise of PopCap/Flash gaming and Iphone gaming). The PC platform, though, by it's nature will never be able to exactly replace the integration and consistency of the console experience and conversely a console will never offer the flexibility and openness that the PC platform offers (at the cost of complexity).
Through software and hardware I can configure my PC to fit my specific needs to a degree that will never be possible with any console. I also never expect that the PC will offer the consistency of experience or simplicity of operation of a console when it comes to playing games.
Through software and hardware I can configure my PC to fit my specific needs to a degree that will never be possible with any console. I also never expect that the PC will offer the consistency of experience or simplicity of operation of a console when it comes to playing games.
Again, why is it assumed that a console will never reach beyond the living room? Is it really so bizarre to think of either students or those in apartments etc. with limited space would want to use a console, or as a second machine, not only for PCing when the first console is in use, but also for gaming when the main TV is otherwise occupied?
The main reasons it wouldn't work IMO are the cost of netbooks and the ubiquity of Windows. Even Macs, riding high on reputation, are a few percentage of machine sales. That said, PS2 would have been an excellent user base to develop software if it came with a PC type OS as standard. If there were a concerted effort to push a console as a general purpose computer, the market would probably grow to support the software and thus become a viable platform, although you'd then be tied to legacy hardware going forwards. I guess if google were involved, they could run everything as virtual apps and thus support forwards compatibility on whatever hardware appears after PS4.
What would they have to do to crush Steam? It's already very popular. I suppose they could decree that you can't make a game for Xbox if you also release it through Steam, but that sounds reminiscent of Nintendo's decree that you couldn't make a game for the NES and the SMS at the same time, which got struck down by the courts. Also, MS simply hasn't taken over HD gaming the way they expected to, and this could end up driving 3rd parties to Sony (wouldn't be the first time that a console manufacturer drove 3rd parties into Sony's waiting arms).
Many people, especially business travelers and students, already do much of their personal computing on a mobile device like an iPhone.
Considering it's the only solution that can provide the service at most times and places, preference against the practice isn't relevant.
Besides, video out and wireless connectivity to a keyboard and mouse can allow a mobile device to turn HDTVs/monitors into one's personal desktop at potentially any fixed location.
Considering it's the only solution that can provide the service at most times and places, preference against the practice isn't relevant.
Besides, video out and wireless connectivity to a keyboard and mouse can allow a mobile device to turn HDTVs/monitors into one's personal desktop at potentially any fixed location.
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I don't really think console will try to reach beyond the living room until they achieve their main push and thats becoming the center piece in home entertainment, which is typically center around the living room.
And how do you expect, a console to overtake the PC space depending on just a segment of the overall market. You might get away with using a console for a PC in a small dorm room but I doubt even if you are in a small apartment that you want the center of your entertainment to be a desk.
The PC space is quickly migrating to mostly laptops anyway, so unless consoles come with a flip top LCD and intergrated keyboard, console are hardly going to take over the PC space in its current form.
For consoles to invade the PC space, their best bet is to introduce wireless laptops and displays/keyboard setups where viewing and use isn't physically tied to the living room or better yet the console itself.
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specwarGP2
Regular
I think the reason people are migrating over to laptops is because they don't want to sit at a desk and use a computer. People want to use their computer laying in bed or sitting on a couch (like myself).
PS4 should be able to replace a home laptop for what most people use them for: web surfing, media functions and some word processing. IF PS4 has a good browser I could see people using it a lot.. when a commercial comes on, you could browse the web for a few min, then go back to the program you were watching earlier. For instance, you could be watching sports and during a commercial break check the box score of the game you are watching, or even scores of other games
When we get there... I think the focus may also move on to the software/services rather than a particular piece of hardware like PC, phone or console.
Lazy8s, seeing that you come from the mobile space, and is very bullish about mobile phone future. I am actually keen to hear your opinion on what the future hold for your work, beyond one-two liners. Some more details on the technical and economics foundation would be nice too -- may be in a different thread.
I use my laptop on my couch also, but I never use my PS3 as an alternative to my laptop when Im in the livingroom. The reason being it is much easier to navigate internet and make use a screen thats a foot from my face.
A console tied your TV is never going to overcome the luxury of having the level of portability that a laptop offers. You can PC from your bed, toilet, dinner table, couch and the stairs using one machine using a laptop and when you really want to buckle down you can go to your office space and use your laptop for productivity in a very efficient manner. Thats something a console tied to a specific location fails to provide.
For instance, you could be watching sports and during a commercial break check the box score of the game you are watching, or even scores of other games
Or if you have AT&T Uverse, you can pull up scores, weather in your area or stock prices from the dash. Offering those type of services is hardly going to allow consoles to replace PCs.
That's why an ability something along the line of remote desktop will be very important next gen IMO. PS3 can sort of do it with PSP. They need to do more on that front IMO. Tablet like interface would be really welcome IMO, even if it is sold seperately.
Using a laptop app hooked up to a HDTV can be different from a console app hooked up to the HDTV. In the end, it depends on whose software and experience is the best.
I have a laptop on the coffee table (perpectually). Skype is good for desktop video chat in general. Sometimes I prefer the PS3 video conferencing because the PSEye is well positioned to capture a larger audience (full body). It's great for party chat between 2 PS3 households. Too bad the chat system is proprietary.
I like browsing family media on the PS3 because the larger HDTV can display a lot more thumbnails to identify a picture quickly. The built-in photo search and video thumbnails help me find a media faster too. It's still not ideal yet, but it's usable.
I agree that the ability to separate/virtualize storage, screen, audio and control is useful in general. I'd like that for all OSes so that I can configure my set up for best effect.
I have a laptop on the coffee table (perpectually). Skype is good for desktop video chat in general. Sometimes I prefer the PS3 video conferencing because the PSEye is well positioned to capture a larger audience (full body). It's great for party chat between 2 PS3 households. Too bad the chat system is proprietary.
I like browsing family media on the PS3 because the larger HDTV can display a lot more thumbnails to identify a picture quickly. The built-in photo search and video thumbnails help me find a media faster too. It's still not ideal yet, but it's usable.
I agree that the ability to separate/virtualize storage, screen, audio and control is useful in general. I'd like that for all OSes so that I can configure my set up for best effect.
specwarGP2
Regular
Right, that's because the browser isn't designed well. If PS4 has a browser with a UI that is designed from the ground up to be used by someone sitting a distance away, I'm sure it will be quite useable. I'm thinking like how apple designed safari so web browsing would be useable on a phone, Sony (or google) could do the same with the browser for PS4. Also certain things are much better on a bigger screen - watching streaming video, for example.
A lot of people dont need that portability though. They just dont want to set up a desk and make space for a desktop.
Uverse? eep no thanks! From what I've seen, the HD quality is poor (lots of compression artifacts) and broadband speeds are inferior (and more expensive) than cable. The guide is pretty nice, and channels change pretty fast, which is awesome
Are you trying to say that Uverse has a built in browser? Or just little snippets? Because my TV already has built in yahoo internet widgets for weather, sports, etc.. also streaming video. The interface is slow, but it works ok from what I've tried. It has built in netflix streaming, but since I dont have an account I cant say if it works well. I've read that it does though.
I don't think the threat towards PC is going to come from consoles, it's going to come from cell-phones. And it certainly won't come in one generation.
In 20-30 years, you'll bring your phone with you.
- You enter the office, it will be paired with your keyboard, monitor and mouse, and run the software in the clouds.
- You leave the office, enter the living-room, it will be paired with your TV, and you select wich show you wanna watch, and wich movie, wich is all stored in the clouds.
PS3 is a superb PC hardware-wise, it's only unfortunate that nobody wants to program for something with as litle memory available as PS3 had nowadays.
If AmigaOS had been ported to it, and not been tied to that small hardware-manufacturer, it would have received alot more support. I'm sure they could triple their income if they sold it on PS3 aswell, I'd pay a few hundred dollar, to get it on my PS3 atleast.
Hyperion (Amiga OS developers) had it running on PS3, I think. But those owning the Amiga-brand, didn't want it there.
Hopefully PS4, will allow for memory-upgrade.
In 20-30 years, you'll bring your phone with you.
- You enter the office, it will be paired with your keyboard, monitor and mouse, and run the software in the clouds.
- You leave the office, enter the living-room, it will be paired with your TV, and you select wich show you wanna watch, and wich movie, wich is all stored in the clouds.
PS3 is a superb PC hardware-wise, it's only unfortunate that nobody wants to program for something with as litle memory available as PS3 had nowadays.
If AmigaOS had been ported to it, and not been tied to that small hardware-manufacturer, it would have received alot more support. I'm sure they could triple their income if they sold it on PS3 aswell, I'd pay a few hundred dollar, to get it on my PS3 atleast.
Hyperion (Amiga OS developers) had it running on PS3, I think. But those owning the Amiga-brand, didn't want it there.
Hopefully PS4, will allow for memory-upgrade.
I can honestly see the day when PC gaming pretty much goes "casual only" when the only people gaming on PCs are playing casual games like on a laptop. Funny thing is, that consoles are pretty much just becoming PCs with basic functionality, so in the end, PCs technically will always be around, especially as laptops, the customization will eventually be dumbed down though I can see. With a set top box console and PC functions, it's important that the system can stay worthwhile over a period of time. If MS and Sony really want to do that, then they need to include a high amount of RAM in the system to prevent bottlenecks. It's incredibly ironic that a "bane" of PC gaming: background processes, has infiltrated it's way into consoles. So now you want to include basic PC functionality into a console that is a gaming centric machine that already happens to be experiencing background processing issues that take up crucial resources? Include a proper amount of RAM for such a machine or make the RAM user upgradable (but then we'd have a PC again!).
The future model for PCs could be the laptop. Basic upgrade functionality, yet completely practical. There will be no more separate mobile and desktop processor lines, all "mobile capable" (at least for the mainstream market). So, as much as the console may actually possibly destroy the desktop PC market (which in most likely case WILL NOT HAPPEN), you can't kill the laptop market at all, and too many people will be unwilling to settle for Netbooks until they provide the power they need to do anything decently (which won't be for a very long time). You always have the uncertainty principle in the back of your mind. Sure you have this minor task in mind for all the time, but what about when you need ALOT of power for those certain instances like video editing, some gaming, etc? Because of that, I can see PC gaming continuing to survive quite well as long as people maintain some knowledge of mobile computing components. Therefore there will always be advancements in hardware and software hopefully. I can go to a Best Buy, buy a gaming centric G51 series laptop for ~$1000, getting a relatively fast PC that happens to be great for all functions including gaming (a 9800M GS or GTX260M destroys either a 360 or PS3 graphically), that is mobile to boot (can't forget it's inherit UPC capabilities). Yes it's somewhat expensive, but it's the all-provider of everything I'd want in a computer except for being upgradeable.
Oh and **** cloud computing. I'll keep my stuff with me thank you very much.
As for the current crop of consoles, they are certainly capable machines, but to develop proper Windows like OSs for them, how much would that cost the consumer? I highly doubt MS would give a Windows for 360 for free considering they'd have to develop it for the PPC platform, be useful on 512 MB of RAM, and still make it fast enough to switch from OS only to game mode only. That might require a reboot and may make such a useful idea quite moot. The PS3 only had Linux because PPC versions of it were already compatible with Cell by nature and Sony saw a way for researching to leap into using the system from the get go. Sony really didn't have to do anything except allow the firmware to accept it. Also how many people would buy into a Windows for 360? Might be alot initially, but I see the popularity dropping off quite quickly once people figure our their experience with a normal PC is still better or they might barely use the 360 Windows at all, seeing it more as a novelty. Few would buy into it next time around with their curiosity fulfilled. Then what about third party programs? Would they have to go through MS just to gain compatibility and the right to be used on the platform? Oh the issues, the issues..................
The PC still represents the closest thing to true computing freedom (just had to do that) for developers and users alike. There are too many people that still value that to be willing to give it up and I think plenty of hardware companies still realize this and are unwilling to quit doing what they do as long as they are raking in the money.
The future model for PCs could be the laptop. Basic upgrade functionality, yet completely practical. There will be no more separate mobile and desktop processor lines, all "mobile capable" (at least for the mainstream market). So, as much as the console may actually possibly destroy the desktop PC market (which in most likely case WILL NOT HAPPEN), you can't kill the laptop market at all, and too many people will be unwilling to settle for Netbooks until they provide the power they need to do anything decently (which won't be for a very long time). You always have the uncertainty principle in the back of your mind. Sure you have this minor task in mind for all the time, but what about when you need ALOT of power for those certain instances like video editing, some gaming, etc? Because of that, I can see PC gaming continuing to survive quite well as long as people maintain some knowledge of mobile computing components. Therefore there will always be advancements in hardware and software hopefully. I can go to a Best Buy, buy a gaming centric G51 series laptop for ~$1000, getting a relatively fast PC that happens to be great for all functions including gaming (a 9800M GS or GTX260M destroys either a 360 or PS3 graphically), that is mobile to boot (can't forget it's inherit UPC capabilities). Yes it's somewhat expensive, but it's the all-provider of everything I'd want in a computer except for being upgradeable.
Oh and **** cloud computing. I'll keep my stuff with me thank you very much.
As for the current crop of consoles, they are certainly capable machines, but to develop proper Windows like OSs for them, how much would that cost the consumer? I highly doubt MS would give a Windows for 360 for free considering they'd have to develop it for the PPC platform, be useful on 512 MB of RAM, and still make it fast enough to switch from OS only to game mode only. That might require a reboot and may make such a useful idea quite moot. The PS3 only had Linux because PPC versions of it were already compatible with Cell by nature and Sony saw a way for researching to leap into using the system from the get go. Sony really didn't have to do anything except allow the firmware to accept it. Also how many people would buy into a Windows for 360? Might be alot initially, but I see the popularity dropping off quite quickly once people figure our their experience with a normal PC is still better or they might barely use the 360 Windows at all, seeing it more as a novelty. Few would buy into it next time around with their curiosity fulfilled. Then what about third party programs? Would they have to go through MS just to gain compatibility and the right to be used on the platform? Oh the issues, the issues..................
The PC still represents the closest thing to true computing freedom (just had to do that
) for developers and users alike. There are too many people that still value that to be willing to give it up and I think plenty of hardware companies still realize this and are unwilling to quit doing what they do as long as they are raking in the money.
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People are doing more browsing on iPhones, netbooks, MIDs and tablets.
Maybe eBook readers too, or they will get absorbed into multifunction devices.
But it may be that all the functions of the PC, which include both content consumption as well as content creation/management, may be splitting.
For consuming content, consoles and these other devices are fine. But for managing tens of gigs or more of photos, audio and video content, it's hard to beat the input capabilities of PCs (or Macs).
Maybe eBook readers too, or they will get absorbed into multifunction devices.
But it may be that all the functions of the PC, which include both content consumption as well as content creation/management, may be splitting.
For consuming content, consoles and these other devices are fine. But for managing tens of gigs or more of photos, audio and video content, it's hard to beat the input capabilities of PCs (or Macs).
The truth is that Xbox division was created when Sony started to talk back in 2000 that PS2 was able to be upgraded to a Home Computer. Microsoft entered in panic mode because of this and made the Xbox only for stopping them. For me PS3 is nothing more than the return of the old 80s home computers but adapted to the XXI century, they were basically game systems with some computer functionality and we can define PS3 with the same words.
Remember that the technology doesn´t become a value if it is a cost, the HD era continues being a cost for a lot of people but in the near future the HD will be cheap enough to be in all homes without any problem, then the cost will become a value for consumers and the transition will be finished, if now we enter into the "stereoscopic era" then it will be one of the worse movements in the game industry.
I believe that PS4 will include new technologies as a new values, for example PlayTV will be embedded into the system for adding more value to the complete package.
Remember that the technology doesn´t become a value if it is a cost, the HD era continues being a cost for a lot of people but in the near future the HD will be cheap enough to be in all homes without any problem, then the cost will become a value for consumers and the transition will be finished, if now we enter into the "stereoscopic era" then it will be one of the worse movements in the game industry.
I believe that PS4 will include new technologies as a new values, for example PlayTV will be embedded into the system for adding more value to the complete package.
I take this thread as a sign that Sony's marketing momentum has really picked up. A year ago, I don't think this conversation would be going on with 'PS4' as the referent.
As far as all the Amiga talk, I used an Amiga exclusively for years, and today's PCs and Macs are more than capable of playing the multimedia / gaming role that the Amiga did. But today's market is much more interested in using computers as Internet terminals and for productivity, to the point that multimedia and gaming are just a small rump of the (admittedly huge) market.
I do wish Electronic Arts would try producing something like a modern version of Deluxe Music Construction Set, or other of their early creative titles.. on the consoles or the PC/Mac, either way. It's that kind of application that really helped define the Amiga as a creative platform, and while such apps do exist today (GarageBand), nobody is pushing them that much.
As far as all the Amiga talk, I used an Amiga exclusively for years, and today's PCs and Macs are more than capable of playing the multimedia / gaming role that the Amiga did. But today's market is much more interested in using computers as Internet terminals and for productivity, to the point that multimedia and gaming are just a small rump of the (admittedly huge) market.
I do wish Electronic Arts would try producing something like a modern version of Deluxe Music Construction Set, or other of their early creative titles.. on the consoles or the PC/Mac, either way. It's that kind of application that really helped define the Amiga as a creative platform, and while such apps do exist today (GarageBand), nobody is pushing them that much.
