Will Microsoft include HDMI IN functionality on XBox Slim and Scorpio?

[rockaman]

There is no confusion. You're talking about eras long gone as justification as to why "Microsoft will succeed later" when we have reached that later time and they are not succeeding. And why do you think the PS2 online service has anything to do with the PS3 or PS4 strategies or sales? That's completely delusional.

If Xbox Live in 2000 was so great, and it was, do you think that matters for sales of Xbone? If it matters, then why isn't it the difference maker then for the Xbox brand 16 years later? It doesn't matter, because it's 16 years later, and it's completely irrelevant. Nobody cares what happened 15+ years ago, soon to be 20+ years.

If you honestly think this matters, you are making the same mistake as Sony did with PS3 and severely overestimating people's memories and brand loyalties. The market really doesn't care. Most people simply want a console at a reasonable price with good services and great games. Sony recognized this, that's how they were able to change strategies in the middle of the 7th generation and to make a fresh start in the 8th generation.

Think about why online did not win Xbox the 6th generation: the timing was not right. Online didn't matter in the 6th generation for console sales. The highest selling games were offline games. Grand Theft Auto. Gran Turismo. Final Fantasy. Metal Gear Solid. All easily 3 million+ sellers and some up to 20 million+ in sales (Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas sold 20 million units on PlayStation 2 alone).

The primarily offline PlayStation 2 ends up selling 160+ million consoles. You can't argue with numbers like that. It doesn't matter what apologies are invented. Sony outsold the competition by over a hundred million consoles in the 6th generation. That didn't cause the success for PS3 or PS4 either. Not having online built-in was simply irrelevant for the 6th generation to PlayStation 2, and contrary to your belief it has nothing to do with success or lack of success of PS3 or PS4.

Conversely, the timing was right in the 7th generation for online services, which is why Xbox 360 made great success. Great price, great games, great online services, and most importantly at the right time. Bungie's Halo games and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare were massive selling game that were all very big with online. That spells success. The timing is important.

There is one example of Microsoft showing up at the right time: Xbox 360. Unfortunately, we have several other examples of Microsoft showing up late to other markets and completely failing, which you didn't address. Zune. Games for Windows Live. Microsoft Phones. Microsoft Tablets.

Launching a IPTV service is not an easy thing to do, and doing it in 2018 or 2019 after Apple, Google, Amazon, Netflix, Hulu, Sony, and others become established (and some of them die off, probably Sony's) is completely pointless and completely delusional to think they will make a dent at that time. All of these companies are already creating original content for their own services and have people signed up in massive numbers. Even Sony is already creating and delivering original content on their own services.

Showing up after the party is over is not going to help Microsoft in any way, and it is your assumption, and Microsoft own assumption themselves, that this is OK that leads them to failing time and time again.

The bottom of this issue is this: It's not on this board that you have to reconcile a twisted logic about Microsoft's strategies and timing with. It is with reality that you have to reconcile your logic with. And reality is not going to be as willing as anyone on this board to paint a pretty picture for Microsoft here. It simply doesn't exist, no matter how much you want it to.

 

[eastmen]

There is no confusion. You're talking about eras long gone as justification as to why "Microsoft will succeed later" when we have reached that later time and they are not succeeding. And why do you think the PS2 online service has anything to do with the PS3 or PS4 strategies or sales? That's completely delusional.

If Xbox Live in 2000 was so great, and it was, do you think that matters for sales of Xbone? If it matters, then why isn't it the difference maker then for the Xbox brand 16 years later? It doesn't matter, because it's 16 years later, and it's completely irrelevant. Nobody cares what happened 15+ years ago, soon to be 20+ years.

If you honestly think this matters, you are making the same mistake as Sony did with PS3 and severely overestimating people's memories and brand loyalties. The market really doesn't care. Most people simply want a console at a reasonable price with good services and great games. Sony recognized this, that's how they were able to change strategies in the middle of the 7th generation and to make a fresh start in the 8th generation.

Think about why online did not win Xbox the 6th generation: the timing was not right. Online didn't matter in the 6th generation for console sales.

Conversely, the timing was right in the 7th generation, which is why Xbox 360 made great success. Great price, great games, great online services, and most importantly at the right time. That spells success.

There is one example of Microsoft showing up at the right time: Xbox 360. Unfortunately, we have several other examples of Microsoft showing up late to other markets and completely failing, which you didn't address. Zune. Games for Windows Live. Microsoft Phones. Microsoft Tablets.

Launching a IPTV service is not an easy thing to do, and doing it in 2018 or 2019 after Apple, Google, Amazon, Netflix, Hulu, Sony, and others become established (and some of them die off, probably Sony's) is completely pointless and completely delusional to think they will make a dent at that time. All of these companies are already creating original content for their own services and have people signed up in massive numbers. Even Sony is creating original content.

Showing up after the party is over is not going to help Microsoft in any way, and it is your assumption, and Microsoft own assumption themselves, that this is OK that leads them to failing time and time again.

The bottom of this issue is this: It's not on this board that you have to reconcile a twisted logic about Microsoft's strategies and timing with. It is with reality that you have to reconcile your logic with. And reality is not going to be as willing as anyone on this board to paint a pretty picture for Microsoft here. It simply doesn't exist, no matter how much you want it to.

Bro come on

Turn the page 8 years to Xbone and you see the dinosaur-type Microsoft that can only be described as slow, lazy, inattentive, and complacent. Some nice qualities that form spectacular disasters in the consumer technology space.

This is what you wrote because MS would be late with tv streaming. Yet you are now claiming that no one cares about the past.


And MS is not always late to the party . Tablets - There since 2004 . Smart phones there since the early 2000s with win mobile . Video games - Big push with win 95 .

Not every company can hit it out of the park a 100 % of the time. Apple had a slew of failed devices , Sony has had its own share of failed devices (umd , mini disc , bluray music , psp , vita ) Nintendo failed with the n64 and continued with the gamecube then succeeded with the wii and failed with the wii u.

The point I am trying to make is no one will care in a few years if MS was late to the streaming tv party just like no one cares now about the other examples I mentioned. If in year 4 of the xbox one it gets streaming tv , who is going to look back in year 8 and complain ? In 16 years who will care ? But if MS never gets tv streaming people will care and will complain if its a factor in their purchasing choices.

 

[rockaman]

Let me restate what I have already stated. This is not the past. This is current. Microsoft needs to apply what did succeed in the past in the current to succeed again. Which they happened to do a total of one time. But they need to do it again.

When Xbox 360 succeeded in 7th generation to the tune of 75+ million console sales, they did so because they had correct timing, correct messaging, strong content, a great price, online services that matched online capabilities of the period (people actually had broadband now), and launched first. You need all of those things to succeed in any market, new or old.

Microsoft need to return to being aggressive in the same way if they expect to succeed again in the console market, or use the same aggressive strategies in other markets. What Microsoft actually happens to do is give up at the slightest hint of resistance, which they get in the first place because they generally don't commit deeply enough to their own products. Windows Phone is not in the past. Windows Phone and Windows Mobile failure is current. Nokia collapse is current. Surface failure to capture market share is current. Xbone collapse after outstanding Xbox 360 success is current. These are all current events in which Microsoft passive strategies fail over and over again.

The only person being delusional is the one who brought up OG Xbox Live or SEGA online and PlayStation 2 not having online as a reason PS3 succeeded. PlayStation 3 didn't *succeed* because they were late with online. PlayStation brought online to their platform universally in the generation in which online gaming became most prevalent. That's much better timing than just "oh let's make a IPTV service now because other people are doing it" type of thinking.

If you want to be an apologist for Microsoft, that's fine. But again, you have to reconcile your logic with reality, and that reality is that when they are passive they fail, and when they are aggressive they succeed. So they have to commit to the successful strategy at some point. If they don't, they only ones Microsoft can blame is themselves. And you also have to lay the blame at Microsoft's feet as well.

Making excuses for Microsoft doesn't help Microsoft. Whether it comes from you or Microsoft themselves, it's part of the same pattern of failure that is synonymous with the company when they enter new markets. They rest on their laurels, become passive, and give up what "could have been" for something much less.

 

[BRiT]

Not to nitpick, but i thought Surface was gaining substantial marketshare at the cost of Apple.

 

[rockaman]

I agree, as far as I am aware, Surface has been their best new consumer product lineup since Xbox and Xbox 360 and Xbone by a large margin. They've also stuck to the platform and shown commitment to the mobile platform for their OS in many different ways, including with in-store setups in big cities like New York and tri-state area, Toronto, and I think also in big EU cities.

They also market the Xbox brand very strongly in shopping malls in United States. One of their greatest strengths with the Xbox brand has consistently been advertising presence in the US and I believe UK market as well (don't have personal experience with UK though). Holiday sales as well.

 

[function]

I hope X1 can fully unlock the magical Seventh Core and offer games the enchanted HexGig memory configuration.

Making a big noise about this might seem odd as it won't radically alter games in the here and now, but it might begin to manage perceptions of "Super Phil Box" in preparation for Scorpio.

Sony didn't just turn things around with PS4 - they put in a lot of leg work with PS3 to set themselves up well. And if worst comes to worst, slightly better games won't do any worse for them than being able to snap all kinds of shitty apps.

 

[eastmen]

The leaked Slim pictures shows it has an ir blaster on the front for tv control . So I guess HDMI continues

 

[BRiT]

The leaked Slim pictures shows it has an ir blaster on the front for tv control . So I guess HDMI continues

X360 had similar IR ports from what I recall and that had no HDMI IN.

 

[eastmen]

X360 had similar IR ports from what I recall and that had no HDMI IN.

did it ? I had a launch day and one of the slim ones and never saw that on my xbox 360 ? I don't recall it on my sisters super slim thing

Super slim

http://www.wintouch.de/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Xbox-360-Super-Slim.jpg

http://mlm-d2-p.mlstatic.com/xbox-3...-carcasa-tapa-1612-MLM4761832564_082013-F.jpg

 

[Silent_Buddha]

did it ? I had a launch day and one of the slim ones and never saw that on my xbox 360 ? I don't recall it on my sisters super slim thing

Super slim

http://www.wintouch.de/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Xbox-360-Super-Slim.jpg

All X360's had an IR receiver. You could use just about any old IR remote control to control not only your X360 but your other entertainment devices as well. The window for an IR receiver looks just like a window for an IR blaster.

Regards,
SB

 

[eastmen]

All X360's had an IR receiver. You could use just about any old IR remote control to control not only your X360 but your other entertainment devices as well. The window for an IR receiver looks just like a window for an IR blaster.

Regards,
SB

ah I see. I guess we will find out soon about if its an ir blaster or receiver !

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Exactly. All in one media is a hard nut to crack. When they promised to go after that problem, we though "wow, they must have something cooking in there, cause everyone knows how many factors and features are required to get all that media functionality working properly. If MS says they are doing it, they must have figured it out, they can't be THAT clueless"
Now both us and them learned they actually just had no idea what they were doing. They really were THAT clueless. No wonder high-up execs got fired, they had major over-sights and misjudgements in all fronts.

Except MS had all the pieces a decade ago. Media center is still one of the best media centric applications ever developed with a TV friendly interface.

Problem is. Xbox and PC were mandated to be 2 different things. So Media Center couldn't go to Xbox. And most people don't want to have a PC in their living room.

That was still a thing for XBO. So Media Center ends up getting cancelled because not many people want a PC in their living room. And the Xbox team has to re-invent the wheel instead of just repurposing Media Center.

By the time the internal power struggle at MS finally settled with the Windows in everything crowd winning out, it was too late for Media Center as development stopped years ago and the team behind it no longer exists.

Yay for Microsoft shooting themselves in the foot. They were fully capable of bringing Media Center to the Xbox family during the X360 lifetime, but instead, internal politics meant that was a no go.

They had all the licensing and everything required to have a cable input directly on the console itself along with the relevant signal decoder which would have been something no other competing media box on the market (that I know of) would have been able to boast.

But no. PC must be separate from console. Bleh. The change for unifying everything around Windows came too late.

Regards,
SB

 

[eastmen]

With the popularity of streaming sticks and small apple tv like devices they could still get media center back in the action. They just have to pick it up and dust it off.

I'm using it on a dual core brazos from amd with 8 gigs of ram and that's running full windows . So it would have no trouble running on the current xbox one.

If I was dreaming and could make those dreams real. I'd have MS put out a usb tunner capable of 6 channels (or 8) that could plug into an xbox one / slim and scorpio and it would include its own small apu to run everything it needs and it would really just use the system for storage.

I'd also allow it through an xbox tv app stream the content to your tablets/ phones or pcs or even other consoles. That way you can watch the stuff wherever you go.

That is what I would love to happen.


I think the sony stuff is really amazing , but for me on fios it would actually cost me more to get 0 tv channels and just internet than it currently costs me for tv , internet and home phone. So i'm not interesting in paying more for the channels I already get.

 

[rockaman]

I think most of us want to see Microsoft to finally truly merge Xbox and PC gaming in a definitive way. They have had years of opportunity to do this, in the time of which Steam and few others monopolized the PC gaming market. Lately they do sound more committed to the idea though, so that's a positive thing. But as far as TV goes, unless something is announced at this E3 (even though they have already stated they are moving away from this, simple TV tuner or IPTV service which was never before on the cards), this is not the horse to bet on for Microsoft. Even for aggressive companies like Amazon and Netflix or now even Sony it took years of work before they launched their own TV services and original content came even after that.

Not saying it's impossible, but it makes a lot more sense to compare to what other companies have done in the last few years to reach they stage they are now. Sony is a good comparison, because they exist in the console space, and they also launched a TV service like you are saying you want from Microsoft. But keep in mind there is no guarantee PlayStation TV is successful or lasts beyond 5 or 10 years. Just like there would be no guarantee for any other company, including Microsoft, and launching a service years after the competition is not any advantage.

It took Sony 10 years of difficult decisions and change in behaviour/culture to redefine PlayStation after the slow launch and high price of PS3. In these same years Sony was bleeding money each year due to shrinking sales in several sectors including the TV and computer and mobile devices market, among others. It took two Sony CEOs in that time for them to push services like PlayStation Now and PlayStation TV out the door, and only Hirai was able to cut the excess out of their business (they greatly downsized their TV business in response to incredible sales by competitors like Samsung and LG, then recently cut off SOE, gave up their laptop brand, and most recently their PC video editing software business). And after 7+ years of loss-making Sony finally made a tidy annual profit in 2015. They even ended up selling their Japan headquarters to make this happen.

There was a varying degree of reinvention in Sony from top to bottom in the recent past and they were able to refocus their efforts and double down on their successful businesses like PlayStation while cutting out the fat. And now they continue to be aggressive by pursuing VR and IPTV, to their credit.

The question for Microsoft has never been are they in the right industries, do they have the expertise, or do they have the capital to do amazing things to build on their existing businesses. The question has always been is there a winning, aggressive culture and a leader at Microsoft to make those possibilities a reality. And the issue for Microsoft is that they can easily afford to *not* do things, they can afford to drag their feet for a long time without suffering much consequence, and this many would charge them with being lazy or lacking the will to put their collective strengths together in a digestible, consumer friendly package. Which again companies like Apple or Amazon or Netflix actively pursue, but Microsoft has slacked on for over a decade.

Microsoft has always had the tools, resources, and capital to do incredible things in the consumer space. But what they have consistently lacked is strong leadership to coordinate their efforts in a meaningful way, and that has caused them to miss likely tens of billions of dollars each year because of all the cumulative opportunities over the years.

This is the same criticism one could level at Sony in the early 2000s. A media giant, with huge music libraries, and a successful brand in the Walkman tape and then CD players. But were they able to compete with Apple's iPod or iTunes with their own affordable, consumer brand MP3 player or digital music service and media player? They could have, but they didn't, because they wouldn't get their ducks in order on time or well enough to do so.

Sony has proved they can finally adapt in difficult circumstances under Kazuo Hirai. Microsoft under Nadella has to prove they can adapt now unless they wish to miss even further opportunities in 2 or 3 or 5 or 10 years from now. So far the results are promising with what might be currently happening with PC and Xbox, and also Surface laptops and mobile. They just need to be hungry for more if they really wish to do damage in the consumer space and take consumers from Apple and Steam and Sony and others.

 

[Rikimaru]

There is HDMI IN. No Kinect Port. Unexpected.

 

[BRiT]

There is HDMI IN. No Kinect Port. Unexpected.

That likely explains why they're not using Kinect hardware voice acceleration for Cortana but do allow for voice control via Headsets.

 

[iroboto]

There's a Kinect adaptor though


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rokkerkory]

More about the S here:

Nice video

 

[Scott_Arm]

In that video you can see the HDMI In port on the back.

Nice looking console.

 

[Dave Baumann]

There's a Kinect adaptor though

The question is whether that adapter needs a separate power supply, a-la PC. Hope not.