You're comparing the unreleased, unknown Wuu to the unreleased, unknown Rogue, and saying Rogue is comparable or possibly better. Based on what, exactly?
Wii U hardware discussion and investigation *rename
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They don't need to do that OpenGLES has more than enough features.
The software issue is about cost/profit, nothing else, if a publisher thought they could make back a $30M budget on IOS devices they'd spend it tomorrow, right now that's just not considered feasible and I don't see that changing.
It's the same reason VITA will likely always (in it's lifetime) have more impressive games than even a superior tech IOS device. It has nothing to do with the hardware capabilities, it's a question of developers being willing to invest Millions of $ into a game.
Not really my point, the point is just that as of right now, iOS isn't seen as a viable platform for AAA hard core game titles. And that has nothing to do with the hardware capabilities.
The touch screen only input is probably a factor, but most of it is that the market won't buy at hard core game prices. You can't sell dramatically cheaper without canabalizing your other markets.
For it to change someone is going to have to demonstrate a model that works, and I think for the most part we're beyond experimenting with the market.
Nintendo is one of ARMs largest customers and a close partner, and they know very well what's going on in the handheld space. If they considered an ARM/ Imagination solution worthwhile, they would have used that in Wii U instead.
french toast
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Ha, yea fair enough, but what are we doing here then?? we don't know any of the hard details of Wii U do we??
its all speculation from all of us including you.My hardware spec for IPAD4 is not pie in the sky stuff, its a very reasonable possibility..based on known hardware releases..
Some things are already known about Rogue...DX11 350xx GFLOPS..compared to DX 9.0C 240GFLOPS on xenon.
A5X has 8 TMU's..4-8ROPS?..@45nm? is it really that hard to extrapolate that up untill we get to the rumours that were floating around 1-2 pages back?
-Tim Cook has met with Valve..i don't suppose they were discussing the recent asian earthquake do you think??
Like i said i DONT expect actual retail games to be on par with Ninty...just because of the extra time effort and money that will go into the console..not to mention the lack os API/OS bloat that no doubt comes with IOS.
BUT that doesn't matter, the point is unlike 5 years ago, the Wii didn't have a competitor form the low end..it only had consoles above it..that lacked a popular gimmick and were much more expensive...they wont have that luxury this time.
For most kids ipad games likely look like XBOX 360 games to them anyhow..they wont understand textures...AA AF etc etc..
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french toast
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I don't know about that, i did mention that a few pages back..seems quite reasonable..maybe got a really good deal for the anticipated low end parts they are getting? perhaps they just want a tried and tested architecture for gaming? perhaps they are thinking about ease of porting from other platforms? perhaps they just can't be bothered to put in th R&D to make custom chips??..after all Wii U is launching this year..Rogue doesn't come till next.
May I ask how you came to this conclusion?
I'm still sceptical about the rogue gpu line.
Modern chips have gone from passive cooling to small fans to extreme large fans. They have also gone from requiring PSU's that are less that 150W to 500-600W.
Yes the PowerVR Rogue is not a desktop GPU but the same physics apply for it.
Remember that the new iPad had a 70% larger battery but has the same battery life time as the iPad 2.
Modern chips have gone from passive cooling to small fans to extreme large fans. They have also gone from requiring PSU's that are less that 150W to 500-600W.
Yes the PowerVR Rogue is not a desktop GPU but the same physics apply for it.
Remember that the new iPad had a 70% larger battery but has the same battery life time as the iPad 2.
We're supposed to be speculating on what the Wii U's GPU is, rather than spelling out its business future based on unknowns.
french toast
Your rather matter of fact statement about tablets matching WiiU within 12 months is based far too much on assumption. You seem to have basically cherry picked some rumours and come to the conclusion that WiiU will be less powerful then current gen, tablets will be 400+Gflop monsters and Sony and MS will bring the REAL next gen.
As far as my own opinion on this goes I think WiiU will be more powerful than 360 and I doubt we'll see early implementations of Rogue pushing 350+ GFLOPS, in fact I'd be absolutely amazed if that happens. I'm also not expecting PS4/XBox3 to be more than a 5-6x leap over current gen (I wouldn't be surprised to see less from at least one of them).
Your rather matter of fact statement about tablets matching WiiU within 12 months is based far too much on assumption. You seem to have basically cherry picked some rumours and come to the conclusion that WiiU will be less powerful then current gen, tablets will be 400+Gflop monsters and Sony and MS will bring the REAL next gen.
As far as my own opinion on this goes I think WiiU will be more powerful than 360 and I doubt we'll see early implementations of Rogue pushing 350+ GFLOPS, in fact I'd be absolutely amazed if that happens. I'm also not expecting PS4/XBox3 to be more than a 5-6x leap over current gen (I wouldn't be surprised to see less from at least one of them).
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Acert, my apologies for the late reply. I do indeed have "sources" working with development kits, though the information is not flowing as freely as you may assume. The SDK version can actually be verified online, if you know where to look. I told you one aspect of the GPU, I meant the "lost in translation" comment quite literally, as my japanese is a tad rusty. Other than it being of a custom & more modern design, the GPU is as much of a mystery to me as anyone else here. (due not to a lack of trying to obtain the information, I assure you) Yes I know that custom is a nebulous statement, it is truly a matter of degrees. And no console GPU appears out of a vacuum, I'm trying to obtain information referencing its base. I had heard of the CPU target specifications some time ago online, & simply verified if these were accurate or not. Due to the late arrival of the system, I was expecting something much more powerful than the Xenon. Regardless, some information was shared freely, other information was not.
The details you seek, specifically clock speeds, SPUs, ROPs, FLOPs, TUs, etc, I do not possess. I would've certainly leaked them, if it would not compromise my sources' position. The V5 dev kit seemed to still be focusing on 3rd party engine optimizations, efficiency, etcetera. Perhaps including a 5-15% performance boost as well. A "transitional console" would be an apt description based upon what I've gathered thus far. No outrageous power claims, as Orbis & Durango will definitely outclass it. (the Durango much moreso, as MS have been imbibing the Mark Rein laced punch) The strength will, as I said previously, be in proprietary engine development. The Wii U can still perform visual effects that the PS3 & 360 cannot. Which is only to be expected, why anyone here expected less is beyond my comprehension.
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french toast
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Of course its all assumption and speculative guess work.. with out typing out another essay the point im trying to make is it is tied into Nintendo GPU...i don't believe the specifications that have been mentioned, mainly for the quite plausable Tablets that could be arriving only next year.
I would expect the sweet spot for nintendo to exist long term would be something in the region of 6670 gpu...downclocked somewhat..i don't beleive some of the rumours of them releasing something that could actually be worse than a 360...its almost impossible unless they set out a direct design goal for just that.
-Someone speculated some pages back WiiU GPU having 12TMU's 8 rops and only 160 ALU's...thats suicidal....that is unless they can sell the thing for a profit for £150 from release...doubtfull.
I get impression we are being duped into thinking this is a really weak console..when in fact its going to be at least 50-100% more powerfull.
with out typing out another essay the point im trying to make is it is tied into Nintendo GPU...i don't believe the specifications that have been mentioned, mainly for the quite plausable Tablets that could be arriving only next year.I would expect the sweet spot for nintendo to exist long term would be something in the region of 6670 gpu...downclocked somewhat..i don't beleive some of the rumours of them releasing something that could actually be worse than a 360...its almost impossible unless they set out a direct design goal for just that.
-Someone speculated some pages back WiiU GPU having 12TMU's 8 rops and only 160 ALU's...thats suicidal....that is unless they can sell the thing for a profit for £150 from release...doubtfull.
I get impression we are being duped into thinking this is a really weak console..when in fact its going to be at least 50-100% more powerfull.
Correct, & in some instances much more capable. Btw, both the tablet & console form factors are not quite finalized. Expect some changes at E3.
french toast
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Well your more likely to find out first out of any of us!
I hope so, i want Ninty to make this a 3 horse race.
That was my lower bound for what they could possibly get away with putting in a SoC, assuming sufficiently high clocks. I'm expecting more, especially if it has a separate CPU and GPU (in which case it may be in the 400+ shader range).
You're going to need a bigger [strike]boat[/strike] fan.
D
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The answer for that is quite easy, actually.
There have been so many different rumours regarding performance and price that anyone that doesn't have a direct and reliable source has probably lost any positive expectations.
Nintendo spends hundreds of millions each year on R&D and the Wii U chipset is custom according to IBM and AMD. They have several hardware design teams in Japan, the US and Europe and have close partnerships with IBM, AMD and ARM since the late 90ies. You seem to have a very odd idea who Nintendo actually is and what they do.
What they do? DS, 3DS and Wii - that's what their extensive RnD investments have given us. Maybe they are creating custom chips, but the hardware they sell would be better if they used more potent standard components.
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