Why RE4's lighting may be the GCN's Best

[GameCat]

You can't achieve TRUE high dynamic range on any of the current consoles since they don't have floating point data types for fragments/pixels. You can certainly hack something that sort of looks like HDR on all of them though. A simple flare around lightsources done with a textured screen aligned quad is a simple way of faking HDR and film exposure. Quake 3 did HDR on the gfx cards of yore by twiddling with the gamma ramp to exchange precision for higher dynamic range. But by definition of what high dynamic range means, you can't get it with integer math (unless you use a ridiculous amounts of bits for your datatypes).

And as regards to environment mapping: Cubic environment mapping isn't very usefull for calmer waters (i.e not big choppy waves at sea). Objects close to the waters surface will have their reflections all screwed up. Mostly reflection of this type are done by rendering the objects above the waters surface to a texture, mirrored in a plane that apporximates the bumpy water. Then you do some texture twisting magic to gem what looks like reflection/reffraction. The gamecube can obviously do this.

 

[Li Mu Bai]

Many thanks Gamecat. But the use of pixel shaders greatly assists in mimicking this effect, correct?

 

[Bohdy]

From what I know of dynamic environment mapping (which isn't that much admittedly), there are a few different ways to do it that are suitable for different things.

The easiest way is "portal rendering" (I think its called) and it is only possible on a completely flat surface. The scene is simply rendered upside down (or backwards) on the surface you want to be reflective. This is what many games use including TS2 for floor reflections.

Other ways are cube and sphere mapping as was mentioned here already. The 'Cube does not directly support cube mapping -D) but as others have said and the F5 presentations states it is possible to do it by rendering the scene six times to a sphere map to replicate the effect.

And then there are more dodgy ways to do it, like what Rare used for the water reflections in SFA. It was some sort of framebuffer manipulation or something because if you collect a powerup in the water then the reflection will replicate the camera instead of reflecting properly.

 

[Li Mu Bai]

Allright. Given the nature of true environment reflections, (en masse) what system would be best suited to replicate them or even simply projected ones? The Box followed by the Cube? Or perhaps some other order?

 

[Fox5]

Hey, where does timesplitters 2 have reflections? I have the gamecube version, but can't really remember any, but I do notice a lack of any sort of lighting from the weapons firing. That is probably the biggest graphical disappoint I had with the game, even perfect dark, and probably goldeneye, had at least basic lighting, and I don't see any reason why ts2 can't as the mad editor supports lighting on a per room basis(though making it flicker or even slowly go from dark to bright can be really disorienting and possibly nauesiating), and while it may have looked wierd, having lighting that extends out till the edges of the room and then stops, it's better than nothing.

 

[GameCat]

Yes pixel shaders help. And more precision in the pixel pipe is good even if the final framebuffer format doesn't have more precision. In general the extra bit of precision in the xbox's pipeline and the fact that it has destination alpha helps with faking HDR but I don't know enough about the other consoles to tell you which of them is better equipped to do it. I doubt it's the PS2 though.

 

[Li Mu Bai]

Yes pixel shaders help. And more precision in the pixel pipe is good even if the final framebuffer format doesn't have more precision. In general the extra bit of precision in the xbox's pipeline and the fact that it has destination alpha helps with faking HDR but I don't know enough about the other consoles to tell you which of them is better equipped to do it. I doubt it's the PS2 though.

My thanks again. Any ideas on which system is best equipped to replicate standard projected reflections as in SOL?

 

[7upac]

If any of u are interested in sh3 if u get to the room where u fight the final boss , im pretty sure that bump mapping is used on the ground and on the walls also i think some parts of the final boss are bump mapped as well. It looked very impressive. Truly one of the best visuals on any console right now.

 

[London Geezer]

i'm pretty sure SH3 only has very nice hi-res textures (hi-res compared to other PS2 games). it's not real bump mapping.

 

[Squeak]

Just thought I would mention that Mario Kart: DD!! has some very nice, and noticeble EMBM on the Rainbow Road track, and also some kind of specular bumpmapping on the Giant Bowser shells.
There, that’s finally proof than GC can do it, and in real games too.

 

[7upac]

london-boy funny how you ahve to take a jab at the ps2 like that lol "high-res compared to other ps2 games" I mean come on if they really are high res textures that can fool you in to thinking that it is bump mapping then they must be very good textures even compared to xbox. Also im pretty sure that they were not regular high res textures because the difference in those compared to the other textures in the game was liek day and night. I mean it had to be something more then just high res textures since i was so convinced that it was bump mapping. I mean the bumps on the ground were so convincing so i was so sure it eas bump mapping. Still am, i think.

 

[[maven]]

Just thought I would mention that Mario Kart: DD!! has some very nice, and noticeble EMBM on the Rainbow Road track

That looks like one of the ordinary screen-space dependant texture-lookups to me...

and also some kind of specular bumpmapping on the Giant Bowser shells.

Haven't noticed that... Need to play more (Mirror-mode flower cup is up next)!

 

[London Geezer]

london-boy funny how you ahve to take a jab at the ps2 like that lol "high-res compared to other ps2 games" I mean come on if they really are high res textures that can fool you in to thinking that it is bump mapping then they must be very good textures even compared to xbox. Also im pretty sure that they were not regular high res textures because the difference in those compared to the other textures in the game was liek day and night. I mean it had to be something more then just high res textures since i was so convinced that it was bump mapping. I mean the bumps on the ground were so convincing so i was so sure it eas bump mapping. Still am, i think.

did u just say i took a jab at the PS2???? like, MS fanboi-type?

please people, laugh with me

anyway, just to clarify, all i said is that SH3 textures are higher res than most PS2 games... whats wrong with that?
also, i said that i also thought it was bump mapping (i have finished the game 4 times), then it was clear they were "just" normal textures. i'm the first who goes around saying how i appreciate the fact that some PS2 have such good textures that they "look" like bump mapping...
why would u think i was discrediting PS2???
i've been wrongly called a Sony fanboi long enough, and when i say something like "SH3 doesnt have bump mapping" which happens to be TRUE, then i become a MS fanboi???
read some of the old threads, and the SH3 threads i have created myself, to see how much i love the game and its graphics. we also analysed some of the effects long ago...