Why isn't XB360 outselling PS3 in Europe? *spawn

[TheChefO]

Why?

Because the accounting source isn't verifiable in Europe. They have no obligation to be accurate and from what I understand, very limited ability to be so, given the disparity of Europe and resellers there.

Extrapolated, sure, but at no point will I expect verified and accounted numbers from Europe.

Though I will say it is surprising to see the lead PS3 (and Wii) has over xb360 in Europe. I didn't figure Train Simulators and "Dating" Sims were European's cup of tea ...



This gen has turned out similar to what I expected in many aspects. I figured near library-equality and lower price-point would balance out brand loyalty and potentially edgier graphics.

Turns out I was close, but I didn't account for shunning of Xbox in certain regions for reasons unknown. The xb360 is smaller (big complaint last gen), the unit is cheaper (and cheaper to make), has nearly every game on ps3, has indi games as well as smaller "arcade" DD games, has a more comfortable game-pad, better online experience, and in most cases, multiplat games look better on xb360 as well. But I guess the handful of exclusives out-weigh all of this, and counter the exclusives offered by xb360.

Of course Wii's success grew a bit larger than I expected and stole some of the thunder from ps3/xb360.

The one thing that surprised me that I accounted for in my initial projections (predict 2010 marketshare) for ps3 equality for this gen was the lack of ps3 providing a superior gaming experience. I figured the xb360 lead would be eaten away by a superior machine winning away gamers later in the lifecycle by nearing price parity and offering a superior experience once developers got a hold of cell and took advantage of its abilities. This never really happened. In fact, the opposite has shown true. Yet, here we are talking about the better gaming experience machine with a lower-price point being outsold by a brand name.


Hopefully, next-gen MS will invest a bit more marketing dollars in EU to turn the tide. Every dollar wasted in Japan is a dollar that could be spent (wisely) in EU. That is the lesson to be gleaned from this gen.

I suppose it's part of the EU culture to be more loyal to a brand. Who knows.

 

[Arwin]

Though I will say it is surprising to see the lead PS3 (and Wii) has over xb360 in Europe. I didn't figure Train Simulators and "Dating" Sims were European's cup of tea ...

In Europe, the PS2 lead the way in terms of casual gaming before the Wii did (SingStar, Buzz, EyeToy were all big here). SCEA and SCEJ however did a lousy job exporting that to the other regions, much to the openly expressed frustration of Phil Harrison.

This combines with among others BluRay playback, better localisation and (in some cases much) less value for your Live subscription in most European countries (which is also part of the reason why U.K. is a positive standout for Microsoft). Indy games too are actually not available outside most English speaking countries. I for instance can't play them.

So no, I don't think it's just the exclusives (though they do play a role I'm sure).

I suppose it's part of the EU culture to be more loyal to a brand. Who knows.

Sony IS popular here, no question about it, but you could also say that the success of Xbox in the US in particular is perhaps at least partly brand loyalty. But it may be more accurate to just simply call it 'home advantage' in this case, just as Japanese companies have a big advantage in ... Japan.

 

[TheChefO]

In Europe, the PS2 lead the way in terms of casual gaming combines with among others BluRay playback, better localisation and (in some cases much) less value for your Live subscription in most European countries (which is also part of the reason why U.K. is a positive standout for Microsoft). Indy games too are actually not available outside most English speaking countries. I for instance can't play them.

So casual gaming, Bluray movie playback, better localization, and better online feature availability.

I'm not sure I've seen a better casual gaming experience than Kinect.
Bluray players cost less than $100 (nice bonus for sure, though I don't think I'd want to wear out my optical drive on movies).
Localization I'm sure is an issue of MS not investing enough there. (see my comments on rerouting Japan funds)
Feature availability in more EU regions is again an issue of misused funds to Japan.

So no, I don't think it's just the exclusives (though they do play a role I'm sure).

Exclusives: GOW3, Uncharted, (LBP? ... )

I'm sure there are more, but I'm thinking of ones that actually entice a purchase, not just fluff. The big impact games this gen have pretty much all been multiplat. Aside from Halo, Gears, GOW, and Uncharted. Not sure how many LBP sold, but I'm not sure I'd classify it as a system mover.

Sony IS popular here, no question about it, but you could also say that the success of Xbox in the US in particular is perhaps at least partly brand loyalty. But it may be more accurate to just simply call it 'home advantage' in this case, just as Japanese companies have a big advantage in ... Japan.

Absolutely false.

Sony was the biggest of the big sellers here in the US. PS1 broke records here. PS2 broke records here (above and beyond xb even though xb was a vastly superior machine). PS3 was seen as overly expensive. It's games library never proved to justify the higher pricepoint, and xb-live sealed their fate with most gamers wanting to easily game with their friends.

Believe me, here in the states there is no "ra ra microsoft!" sentiment. It is simply the best bang for the buck in providing a top-notch gaming experience.

If that were Sony, they would be sitting at the top. Just as they were with ps2.

edit:

In fact, I'll go one step further: I know many people that HATE Microsoft, yet still the have an x360, and game on it, because it provides the best overall gaming experience. Especially when factored with live.

 

[Arwin]

So casual gaming, Bluray movie playback, better localization, and better online feature availability.

I'm not sure I've seen a better casual gaming experience than Kinect.

Kinect is only a relatively new thing. It takes a while to start to matter, but even then, Kinect is limited in application in Europe. Many literally don't have room for it, even without the coffeeroom table.

Bluray players cost less than $100 (nice bonus for sure, though I don't think I'd want to wear out my optical drive on movies).

But that wasn't the case initially. Also, it has been a very rewarding player, scaling up through the years all the way to full 3D playback. And once you did get cheap players, that just increases the value of having another player that can play them.

The real threat against the value of BluRay playback in europe really is more in the shape of illegal movie downloads and devices that make playing back those illegal downloads so easy, that you'd rip the few legal discs you have to them as well.

Localization I'm sure is an issue of MS not investing enough there. (see my comments on rerouting Japan funds)

At least partly. There is also not enough room available on the DVD for all localisations to be on one disc. We shop across the border all the time over here, and though that doesn't hold for all, it still holds for a large group. I can agree about feature avialability, but to MS defense, it is really expensive to do, both legally and technically. For instance none of the video services have anything meaningful outside the four main language/countries (Spain, France, Germany, Italy)

Exclusives: GOW3, Uncharted, (LBP? ... )

You're not really listening are you? Buzz sells well here, and you probably barely even know the brand. SingStar is huge here (as in there have been over 70 releases of the game even just on PS2, each country has a language specific version with local songs, totals crossed the 12 million in 2009).

PS Eye sold decent, and Move sold the vast majority of its controllers in Europe, in no small part because the EyeToy had a good name and created a stronger awareness for Sony as a casual gaming brand (mind you the Wii still took a lot of its thunder, simply because Sony's Move came far too late)

I'm sure there are more, but I'm thinking of ones that actually entice a purchase, not just fluff. The big impact games this gen have pretty much all been multiplat. Aside from Halo, Gears, GOW, and Uncharted. Not sure how many LBP sold, but I'm not sure I'd classify it as a system mover.

Sony was the biggest of the big sellers here in the US. PS1 broke records here. PS2 broke records here (above and beyond xb even though xb was a vastly superior machine). PS3 was seen as overly expensive. It's games library never proved to justify the higher pricepoint, and xb-live sealed their fate with most gamers wanting to easily game with their friends.

But isn't that alone a cultural difference, that a company having a home advantage would pick up on easier? Also, don't forget that the PS2 launched at twice the price in Europe versus the US. So you were spoilt rotten there, but we weren't nearly as phased at launch. Mind you, the price difference still mattered a lot.

Believe me, here in the states there is no "ra ra microsoft!" sentiment. It is simply the best bang for the buck in providing a top-notch gaming experience.

You're oversimplifying things immensely. I have given plenty of reasons why already, but perhaps you can explain to me why the original xbox sold twice as much in the US as it did in Europe, and nothing in Japan.

If that were Sony, they would be sitting at the top. Just as they were with ps2.

At the top of your corner of the world ... Don't be so closed/narrow minded. There is definitely going to be some brand loyalty everywhere from generation to generation, and as Microsoft had done a pretty decent job in the US already with the Xbox and Live, so it could go on to win this generation at its home turf. Microsoft did a fantastic job, and it has managed to get itself into a position where it could win in Europe the generation after this one as well.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Because the accounting source isn't verifiable in Europe. They have no obligation to be accurate and from what I understand...

Ahhh, so they're a bunch of liars just making numbers up to...get Sony into trouble with their investors by claiming Sony are selling well while Sony's profits are poor?

Though I will say it is surprising to see the lead PS3 (and Wii) has over xb360 in Europe. I didn't figure Train Simulators and "Dating" Sims were European's cup of tea ...

This isn't the thread for this, and I think there's one already (probably locked), but I'll post this one reply - it's not surprising at all. Sony had 2 generations of serving the gamer well in every style including casual, family gaming. They were deservedly a trusted name in entertainment. So when it came to shelling out hundreds of bucks on a new gaming platform, PS3 was a confident purchase, along with added value in being a BRD player and offering the key franchises that everyone had grown up with. Spin on 5 years and people buying a console now are being swayed by those who have already bought a console, and if the majority there are PS3 owners, the install base will snowball as new buyers are encouraged to buy into the same platform (game borrowing, online gaming, common culture). So it's not surprising at all. There's no obvious reason for anyone to pick XB360 over PS3. Various factors may make that choice, such as Kinect, but then for the many Europeans in tiddly little European homes who can't actively use Kinect (as advertised) then that's not going to sell 360. There's the library that'll appeal to some, but PS3's library that'll appeal to others. There are the better versions of cross-platform games on 360, but most Joe Gamers are oblivious to that. There's the better online experience, but there's the added cost of that online experience plus the benefits are unlikely to be appreciated before someone's bought into a platform and experienced the difference. Plus the online advantages aren't advertised, so Joe Gamer won't necessarily know about cross-game chat as a feature on 360.

Turns out I was close, but I didn't account for shunning of Xbox in certain regions for reasons unknown.

They're not unknown at all, but your list of 360 advantages shows you can't see the market from the many different ways consumers can and see value in different ways in the different platforms.

That's the last I'll say. If you want to carry on talking about why Europe doesn't buy 360 as much as NA does, please find the other thread on this (if it's still around!), or start a new one, and lets keep this one as just people's predictions.

 

[TheChefO]

Ahhh, so they're a bunch of liars just making numbers up to...get Sony into trouble with their investors by claiming Sony are selling well while Sony's profits are poor?

This isn't the thread for this, and I think there's one already (probably locked), but I'll post this one reply - it's not surprising at all. Sony had 2 generations of serving the gamer well in every style including casual, family gaming. They were deservedly a trusted name in entertainment. So when it came to shelling out hundreds of bucks on a new gaming platform, PS3 was a confident purchase, along with added value in being a BRD player and offering the key franchises that everyone had grown up with. Spin on 5 years and people buying a console now are being swayed by those who have already bought a console, and if the majority there are PS3 owners, the install base will snowball as new buyers are encouraged to buy into the same platform (game borrowing, online gaming, common culture). So it's not surprising at all. There's no obvious reason for anyone to pick XB360 over PS3. Various factors may make that choice, such as Kinect, but then for the many Europeans in tiddly little European homes who can't actively use Kinect (as advertised) then that's not going to sell 360. There's the library that'll appeal to some, but PS3's library that'll appeal to others. There are the better versions of cross-platform games on 360, but most Joe Gamers are oblivious to that. There's the better online experience, but there's the added cost of that online experience plus the benefits are unlikely to be appreciated before someone's bought into a platform and experienced the difference. Plus the online advantages aren't advertised, so Joe Gamer won't necessarily know about cross-game chat as a feature on 360.

They're not unknown at all, but your list of 360 advantages shows you can't see the market from the many different ways consumers can and see value in different ways in the different platforms.

That's the last I'll say. If you want to carry on talking about why Europe doesn't buy 360 as much as NA does, please find the other thread on this (if it's still around!), or start a new one, and lets keep this one as just people's predictions.

Predictions for future sales are going to be based on existing sales patterns and factoring in probable future events.

This includes cultural differences, marketing efforts, sales channels/distribution, available features, and language barriers in the regions where said sales are taking place.

All are relevant for the discussion at hand for all regions globally (the thread is talking about "top selling console" world-wide right?

Onto your points:
It's not that I think they are liars, there is just no way to verify their numbers. NPD has a reputation to protect and investors to inform. If their data is proved to be inaccurate, they will have a few issues to deal with. There is no equivalent in Europe. In Japan, they have a much smaller region with tighter integration and so we have the media create numbers.

As for number accuracy, I'm pretty sure Sony "shipped" considerably more than they sold last year. I don't happen to have the data in front of me, but if someone else does, that would be beneficial.

As for why they would do such a thing, well ... in Japan, they value "saving face" considerably more than many other cultures.


As far as serving the gamer well for two generations, was that not also the case here in the USA? Was ps2 not also the number one selling console here in the states last gen? Why then would xb360 be on top of the sales charts in the USA when last gen everyone here in the US (and elsewhere) had a ps2?

Was it simply due to Americans having an affinity toward the much beloved American company? Don't think so. Nobody "likes" Microsoft. Not even here in the states.

There's no obvious reason for anyone to pick XB360 over PS3.

Granted, it isn't a simple one is so far ahead of the other that there should be a dominant position either way. Yet sales in the EU show a 40% advantage for the more expensive console with the poorer quality ports (generally) and poorer online experience.

Arwin posted some interesting counters as to why EU isn't more balanced sales wise.

None of which seem to be insurmountable (unless there really is a cultural bias against the "American console").

I think it would be a good idea for MS to shift focus from Japan and invest in these weaker points across the EU marketplace to bolster their presence for the coming xb720.

As is with xb360, I think this gen proved any money invested in Japan to further marketshare in that country is a waste. They have the important developers in that region onboard and they should continue to be so for the next generation, but as is, the sales for that country couldn't possibly make up for the investment at this point.

Perhaps shift their focus to China? (assuming of course that they will have a "piracy proof" xb720)

 

[TheChefO]

Kinect is only a relatively new thing.

True, but we're talking current sales, not overall life-cycle install base.

But that wasn't the case initially. Also, it has been a very rewarding player, scaling up through the years all the way to full 3D playback. And once you did get cheap players, that just increases the value of having another player that can play them.

Again, current sales trends.

At least partly. There is also not enough room available on the DVD for all localisations to be on one disc.

If not, a language pack online should be available to any region financially worthy of such an effort. (these are businesses afterall)

You're not really listening are you? Buzz sells well here, and you probably barely even know the brand. SingStar is huge here (as in there have been over 70 releases of the game even just on PS2, each country has a language specific version with local songs, totals crossed the 12 million in 2009).

I'm not really into the singing genre, but I'm pretty sure xb360 has singing games too.

PS Eye sold decent, and Move sold the vast majority of its controllers in Europe, in no small part because the EyeToy had a good name and created a stronger awareness for Sony as a casual gaming brand (mind you the Wii still took a lot of its thunder, simply because Sony's Move came far too late)

So "Move" is selling ps3's in EU as a casual gaming device?

But isn't that alone a cultural difference, that a company having a home advantage would pick up on easier?

No, that was false advertising in the information age having a backlash against Sony. E3 2005 was advertised as something far greater than the machine would deliver. (we've seen this story before *ahem* ps2 launch killing DC *cough* ) That alone wasn't so bad, but when coupled with an unreasonably high BOM, that dictates a high retail price and retail rejection. Especially when the goods don't match up to the price-tag.

You're oversimplifying things immensely. I have given plenty of reasons why already, but perhaps you can explain to me why the original xbox sold twice as much in the US as it did in Europe, and nothing in Japan.

Well, for one, every game looked better on xbox ... I don't think there's any disputing the fact that xbox games looked better because they were running on superior hardware. That's not news right?

For me there was also the disgruntled Dreamcast ownership aspect which played a role.

At the top of your corner of the world ...

We were talking in reference to the US sales. As you stated "brand loyalty" & "home-field advantage". I was pointing out that neither was true for the US. If there were brand loyalty, PS3 would be on top in the US as was PS2. As for some inherent advantage for being here, if anything, Sony would have that advantage as they had been selling (at the top of the charts) in the States for a decade prior to ps3. Well before MS with Xbox.

 

[zed]

It's not that I think they are liars, there is just no way to verify their numbers. NPD has a reputation to protect and investors to inform. If their data is proved to be inaccurate, they will have a few issues to deal with. There is no equivalent in Europe.

Um you obviously dont realize Gfk (the company responsible for the european numbers) is a bigger company than NPD.

In fact the Gfk US division is bigger than NPD!

The top 10 firms in the United States in 2010 were:

1. Nielsen
2. Kantar Group
3. IMS Health
4. SymphonyIRI Group
5. Westat
6. Arbitron
7. Ipsos
8. GfK USA
9. Synovate
10. NPD Group

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honomichl_Top_50

If you see each country in europes software numbers (apart from the UK & perhaps ireland), its obvious the ps3 is selling more software than the xbox360, and most likely hardware

 

[kagemaru]

As silly as this thread is, I'll answer your question: Euroland is Sony's territory.

It's that easy.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Predictions for future sales are going to be based on existing sales patterns and factoring in probable future events.

Yes, but that doesn't mean the topic should be carried out in a survey. The survey wants people to weigh in with their opinions rather than a heavy in-depth critique of those. Hence I'll spin out this topic.

Onto your points:
It's not that I think they are liars, there is just no way to verify their numbers. NPD has a reputation to protect and investors to inform. If their data is proved to be inaccurate, they will have a few issues to deal with. There is no equivalent in Europe.

GfK, and a host of other market research firms. They don't release public numbers for our consumption but that doesn't mean it's impossible for a company to gain a fairly accurate measure of size on install bases for a product.

As for number accuracy, I'm pretty sure Sony "shipped" considerably more than they sold last year. I don't happen to have the data in front of me, but if someone else does, that would be beneficial.

Doesn't matter. Nintendo's figure is independent of Sony's and is telling us units sold.

As far as serving the gamer well for two generations, was that not also the case here in the USA? Was ps2 not also the number one selling console here in the states last gen? Why then would xb360 be on top of the sales charts in the USA when last gen everyone here in the US (and elsewhere) had a ps2?

I'm surprised I have to spell this out! XB wasn't an unknown this gen. Last gen everyone had a PS2. XB also gained traction by offering competitive advantages such as best performance, unique exclusives, online play. Hence this gen XB360 was able to build on that. At launch it sold strongly in the US to existing XB gamers, meaning an early culture of 'my friend has an XB360' to start snowballing. XB360 has all the advantages you've outlined (although they also have associated cons), but also doesn't have certain regional advantages as Arwin's outlined. Hence it's a harder sell here in Europe. Thus what MS could do to extend their brand in US (cheaper, better marketing, better online services, yadayada) didn't work so well over here, sometimes because it wasn't imlpemented over here.

Was it simply due to Americans having an affinity toward the much beloved American company? Don't think so. Nobody "likes" Microsoft. Not even here in the states.

Clearly not. I don't know why you think any western nation is so nationalistic - the evidence doesn't support that. US, Japanese and European products sell in all nations, with no-one shunning them en masse due to nationalistic identity (beyond government trade actions!).

Granted, it isn't a simple one is so far ahead of the other that there should be a dominant position either way. Yet sales in the EU show a 40% advantage for the more expensive console with the poorer quality ports (generally) and poorer online experience.

What if someone wants a console and a BluRay player for their new HDTV? PS3 has a price advantage. What if someone wants to play online? PS3 has a price advantage. What if everyone's mates are on PSN? PS3 has a culture advantage? What if you want to play Karaoke in your own native tongue? PS3 has the culture advantage. What if you want to play FIFA? PS3 has the marketing advantage (sponsorship of football broadcasts). There are loads of reasons why PS3 is competitive, different reasons for different people. It's no great mystery, just business as usual. Competing brands gaining and losing share as they manage or fail to woo business through products, service, pricing, etc. By getting a strong start to a market like the console, you get the snowball effect that leads would naturally tend to extend, and a company has to employ measures to ensure the current leader doesn't secure a cultural monopoly.

I think it would be a good idea for MS to shift focus from Japan and invest in these weaker points across the EU marketplace to bolster their presence for the coming xb720.

you missed that conversation!

 

[Shifty Geezer]

As silly as this thread is, I'll answer your question: Euroland is Sony's territory.

It's that easy.

that doesn't answer why. Is it because Europeans were brainwashed by a drug in our water supply, or because Sony built up a strong brand by giving consumers what they want and backing that with a strong marketing message? Because when you know what the formula is, a rival can do something to displace the existing market leader.

 

[NathansFortune]

that doesn't answer why. Is it because Europeans were brainwashed by a drug in our water supply, or because Sony built up a strong brand by giving consumers what they want and backing that with a strong marketing message? Because when you know what the formula is, a rival can do something to displace the existing market leader.

I'm gonna go with the NWO conspiracy theory. Drugs in the water.

 

[Npl]

well, americans want american cars in their garage, american guns in their bedroom and american consoles in their living room. simple as that.
the rest of the world sees the xbox more objectively

 

[steveOrino]

Not sure why I haven't seen this in the discussion yet.

Occurred to anyone that it could be because of quality or lack there of? The 360's disastrous hardware problems have clearly affected sales and public perception, I know MS did its best to sweep it under the rug but customers who have had to deal with it certainly haven't. Having one, if not the worst consumer electronic device failure rate in history cant be a good thing for any manufacturer. Also, beyond the initial cost, where is the value in the 360? if you start adding accessories and services (especially to the base unit) it really isn't cheaper or better for that matter.

Personally I thought for sure that PS3 would be dead last back in 2005... what a difference 7 years makes.

 

[patsu]

I'm gonna go with the NWO conspiracy theory. Drugs in the water.

No. It's the nano machines.

[size=-2]Cue "War is different" speech...[/size]

 

[NavNucST3]

Localization needs to get much better (to include Kinect voice controls). Marketing needs to get much better (to include actually advertising). Content management needs to get better. I'd argue Microsoft should start "throwing money away" in the region now to build better brand recognition for the current system and the system to come. I don't know how anyone can look at this generation and call the EU,Japan, or the US "Sonyland" because the Wii and DS have quite some distance on their nearest competitor in each.

 

[assurdum]

I know could sound pretty lamer but the xbox marketing 'smell' of american in everything. Out of the usa the 360 marketing it's not so promoted well how playstation brand... of course, SCEE it's far to be flawless but I have in mind kinect campaign & I can't to avoid to find it hilarious, irritating & really outdated..
...

 

[Dominik D]

I can attest to pretty much everything Arwin has said. It may seem like there's no apparent reason, but Sony is for example a real stronghold in Poland (market that I'm familiar with). There are multiple reasons for that. I'll recap some of the reasons why and provide some local examples.

- Sony is perceived as a premium brand and people like premium. Many (if not all) major consumer electronics chains have dedicated sections for Sony devices: VAIO laptops, Sony cameras, Sony TV solutions, etc. Sony has dedicated stores (I'm not familiar with any other manufacturer which does this over here) in "high profile" spots in larger cities as well as demo kiosks of their products in most shopping malls.

- For comparison on brand recognition: Nintendo is pretty much nonexistent. There's been an official distribution partner for about 6-10 months so far. Microsoft on the other hand has been pretty good and mispredicting sales (brick-n-mortar as well as online stores were full of HDD-less Xbox last winter with no HDD-powered ones available; nobody wanted the gimped version), screwing over influencers by getting rid of an Xbox-exclusive event and being evasive about Live (Live has been officially launched in Poland about a year ago with console being officially available for ~3 years at that point).

- Poland is mostly Roman-Catholic and Sony was positioning its consoles as The Best Gift for your kids' First Holy Communion. Seriously. It created a lot of buzz in mainstream media and drew attention to the brand. PlayStation is on TV, Sony's pumping monies into celebrities' pockets. Sony's everywhere and Xbox is pretty much absent in the mainstream communication channels.

- Sony's pushing localization like there's no tomorrow. Recognizable names, events with celebs, etc. As mentioned before: stuff like SingStar gets localized editions with not only the UI changed, but also songs being tailored for the local market. It's easy to overlook this if you're an Anglophone but in reality it is super important for casual games in foreign markets (and if you want to grow beyond certain mark, you need casuals on your side). Microsoft had some terrible localizations with stuff like "Mór Berliński" instead of "Mur Berliński" in case of CoD DLC ("Disease in Berlin" instead of "Berlin Wall"; both ó and u are pronounced like English "oo" so it's obvious where this mistake came from) and lang mistakes in achievements that would prevent you from advancing at school. Primary school*.

- BluRay wasn't really selling PS3s over here although it was the cheapest player by a huge margin (and it stayed that way for well over a year).

MS is refocusing on casual with Kinect (hence giving up on the "hardcore" event) but it seems like too little, too late. Sony has been investing a lot in the casual and mainstream for a long time now and it's pretty much their market by now.

--
* the only serious f-up on Sony part was recently when PSN got compromised; they released emails to Polish gamers with stuff like "we're working around the clock" translated literally, invoking images of dudes hanging on clock towers, struggling for life so they don't fall

 

[fearsomepirate]

Kinect is only a relatively new thing. It takes a while to start to matter, but even then, Kinect is limited in application in Europe. Many literally don't have room for it, even without the coffeeroom table.

Kinect's popularity is also vastly overrated here in the States. Sure, MS somehow managed to cram a lot of them out of the door, but the games just don't show up on the charts.

I think a lot has to do with military/sci-fi shooters. Xbox was the premier FPS console last gen, hands down, and that genre has always been more popular here. That reputation has carried over into this gen, despite SCEA actually bringing more exclusive shooter IP to the PS3 than MS is doing for the 360. There's been a very successful advertising push to get the 360 associated with the Call of Duty series--the MW3 ad ended with the 360 logo popping up and telling you to preorder it on the 360. MS also pays Activision and other third parties to get DLC first. A lot of fans also believe (incorrectly) that by paying for Xbox Live, they're getting dedicated servers for COD while PSN is lolololagfest.

Yet, here we are talking about the better gaming experience machine with a lower-price point being outsold by a brand name.

"Better" is entirely subjective and up to individual judgment (I bought a PS3 because it has more of what I wanted for $299 than the Xbox did; clearly, others feel the same way). So you need to pay attention to why consumers are choosing the PS3 in Europe. It sounds like the guys here are doing a good job explaining why consumers in Europe prefer Sony's console.

 

[Sigfried1977]

Value was always a big selling point here in Germany. Same with reliability. Whether the PS3 is or was a better value proposition than the 360 is debatable of course, but most people I know would most likely say it is. In fact more so right now than ever before because Sony's heavy investment in first party software has really been paying off for them for at least couple of years now.

Reliability is pretty self explanatory.

As for Kinect: most apartments aren't anywhere near spacious enough to support the damn thing properly. (does MS even bother to sell the thing in Japan?)