Why Does ATI Get Beat Down on OGL

[Blastman]

In Doom3 it looks to be about 6-7% … rage3d. Although in an indoor environment type game I would expect the advantage to be less than in an outdoor game with long draw distances.

 

[Ailuros]

In Doom3 it looks to be about 6-7% … rage3d. Although in an indoor environment type game I would expect the advantage to be less than in an outdoor game with long draw distances.

Considering the date on that article that's with early drivers; I specifically said >78.03.

Here's the performance pattern in 78.03 in Doom3 with 4xAA enabled and it hasn't changed up to 81.82.

I'm too bored to look up IL2 Sturmovik results right now, but that indoor/outdoor theory doesn't sit well with me either.

 

[bigz]

IL2 numbers:
http://firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_radeon_x1800_xt_xl/page10.asp

 

[Sunday]

ATI is building OGL driver from ground up, and “Project Orcaâ€￾ should be finished in the first half ot the next year...

 

[neliz]

ATI is building OGL driver from ground up, and “Project Orcaâ€￾ should be finished in the first half ot the next year...

It speeds up Quake4 *AND* kills helpless seals?

 

[PatrickL]

I had a look at the firingsquad revue and 3 out of the 7 games tested are opengl games. Is that close of the real market? I had the impression that opengl games were around 10 15 % of the market, not 45 % ?

 

[neliz]

I had a look at the firingsquad revue and 3 out of the 7 games tested are opengl games. Is that close of the real market? I had the impression that opengl games were around 10 15 % of the market, not 45 % ?

If it were real benchmarks they would test the 5 best sold games in the last 6 months and the top 5 online games so that users can chose a card based on game performance with hot titles.. and not a two year old game that prefers one IHV over the other..

 

[Maintank]

Especially if you don’t take it seriously and make it an actual priority.

heh it was a priority to at let people know when Doom 3 came out

Like so many things in the past ~18 months, late to the party for ATI.

 

[Maintank]

And dont take Hellbinder's opinion as anything. He's one of those people who expected unbelievable things from the X1K's and now is so pissed he has to bash everything about ATi for awhile so he feels better.

The truth, ATi doesnt care much really. Majority of games are D3D right now and its only going to be that way even more. The only engine worth anything it seems that is done in OpenGL is the Doom 3 engine and its games that use it. ATi sees this as only a minor area, and they simply rather optimizize games that use it than do a complete rewrite.

Isnt the professional arena still dominated by OpenGL? I would think ATI would want to beat Nvidia in the high margin business of selling Quadro type cards?

 

[neliz]

Since when was the x800XT-PE late? it was available after launch.. just not in europe/america

 

[Skinner]

ATI is building OGL driver from ground up, and “Project Orcaâ€￾ should be finished in the first half ot the next year...

Tha's too late, the last openGL titles are already forgotten by that time

 

[Sunday]

I wouldn’t agree on that. In 2006 one of the most anticipated games will be ET: QW, and maybe RTCW2, there will be plethora of other OGL titles in upcoming year…

 

[Geo]

ATI is building OGL driver from ground up, and “Project Orcaâ€￾ should be finished in the first half ot the next year...

They named it after a killer whale? Oh my, is that something to conjure with.

 

[KimB]

Isnt the professional arena still dominated by OpenGL? I would think ATI would want to beat Nvidia in the high margin business of selling Quadro type cards?

Sure, but as 3DLabs has shown us, good drivers for workstation 3D does not mean good drivers for games.

 

[Hellbinder]

ATI gets its tail handed to it in pretty much *all* OpenGL applications. And it is the Driver. Doom-III is a little unique because of the hardware Z issues.

I know for a fact that its the driver as I was told directly by an OpenGL guy at ATi a few years ago that it was the driver. I was also told that there was no way to fix it without doing a rewrite from the ground up. That was at least 3 market phases ago like in 2002.

How in the hell does *any* company justify not having a performance issue like this fixed in a span of 3 years???

So what if it hasn't affected their sales. Some things you do for principle. Like taking care of your customer. Or how about the fact that they sell next to nothing in the professional space? Or that 90% of game developers use Nvidia hardware for project development?
There are a few key reasons for that. One of them is that they do *not* take care of their OpenGL driver the way they should to give professionals a reason to chose it over Nvidia.

Are we now supposed to say *awwww* thats ok that you totally lied and sandbagged the public because M$ is effectively *finally* killing OpenGL with The release of Vista??

I have no doubt that many of you will say that yes that is perfectly fine.

 

[neliz]

I have no doubt that many of you will say that yes that is perfectly fine.

It should be stabbed with a pointy stick.. and after that we go take a starbucks...

btw, HB, looks like the R580 will be *YOUR* card

The X1800 XT will be good competition for the 7800 GTX, besting it in many cases when antialiasing is enabled at higher resolutions. The X1800 XL competes fairly well with the 7800 GT, but the NVIDIA card generally comes out on top in the tests that we ran. OpenGL games are still a hurdle for all the ATI cards to overcome, but it seems as if the X1600 XT is more highly capable of mitigating the impact of a non-Microsoft API on performance.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2556&p=9

 

[{Sniping}Waste]

In the past most OGL game used alot of NV proprietary extentions. If is still the case, does this still cause problems with profomance on ATI video cards. Whats the profomance differents on NV cards with proprietary extentions and one with standered ARB2?

 

[KimB]

In the past most OGL game used alot of NV proprietary extentions. If is still the case, does this still cause problems with profomance on ATI video cards. Whats the profomance differents on NV cards with proprietary extentions and one with standered ARB2?

I don't believe this is the case any longer. And since ATI doesn't appear to have come ahead in any OpenGL benchmarks to date, it does seem doubtful that NV extensions are the problem.

 

[Pete]

neliz, don't forget that the R580 supposedly won't carry the double-z-per-clock hardware that RV530 and everything out of nVidia for the past three years has.

If that is in fact a big contributer to "OGL" performance.

 

[KimB]

neliz, don't forget that the R580 supposedly won't carry the double-z-per-clock hardware that RV530 and everything out of nVidia for the past three years has.

If that is in fact a big contributer to "OGL" performance.

This doesn't help with FSAA enabled, though. And ATI still loses dramatically in every OpenGL title benchmarked (that I have seen) with FSAA enabled.