Which Motorbike do you have?

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

I believe the argument used for producing a complete 3 point turn in a bike test is that since a bike is quite vunerable, taking several attempts to do a U-turn increasing the risks. Mind you, CBT training follows some pretty rigid instructions and some of them are quite restrictive, such as road positioning and the use of countersteering, where CBT dictates that they are to be used in a very narrow range of circumstances.

The difference is that in a long car, you would never be asked to perform a u-turn in a road where you didn't physically have the lock as part of the driving test. On a bike you are.

I remember several of us complaining to the instructors how difficult it was on a sports bike, and one of them astounded us by doing the figure of eight on a 600 cc sports bike, but he did it virtually stationary while balanced on the bike and using his weight to hop the back wheel around. That's something far beyond the level of skill needed to pass the test or to drive around the roads.

 

[Neeyik]

Sadly it would seem that your experiences are just one of the many examples of mediocre trainers and centres that are out there; using full lock to complete the U-turn isn't a requirement to pass the test and instead of showing off, the instructor should have freely admitted that it is a serious problem on a sports bike, and offered better advice. I can remember my own CBT (13 years ago....oooh, memories...) instructor was so poor that I refused to take anymore lessons after that and pretty much taught myself.

 

[AlphaWolf]

What do the * next to the figures refer to and why have they been corrected? You see this is why I made the comment about multiple sources - in the UK, as far as I have seen, there isn't a single instance of a K5 doing a sub-3 second 0 to 60 mph drag (and that's including ex-GP riders). Now of course that doesn't mean it's not possible but to be nearly a full 0.5 second faster than anyone in the UK is a significant and questionable margin.

I am not sure what the * means perhaps its what they tested. I would find it hard to believe that high performance bikes aren't hitting sub 3 second 0-60 times when they have a much better power to weight ratio than 'super cars' which are hitting that 0-60 number.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Sadly it would seem that your experiences are just one of the many examples of mediocre trainers and centres that are out there; using full lock to complete the U-turn isn't a requirement to pass the test and instead of showing off, the instructor should have freely admitted that it is a serious problem on a sports bike, and offered better advice. I can remember my own CBT (13 years ago....oooh, memories...) instructor was so poor that I refused to take anymore lessons after that and pretty much taught myself.

I don't blame the instructors, I blame the test that says you have to negotiate a fixed figure of eight regardless of the size/lock on your bike (which is what I was really bitching about - I just used the u-turn as the closest car analogy in response to the "size of a street doesn't change" comment).

I passed first time, but it was significantly harder for me on a sports bike than for other people in physically smaller bikes. That makes it a test of who has the smallest bike with the most lock, rather than a test of riding skill.

 

[Neeyik]

The reason why it's so hard to do sub-3 seconds on a standard road bike is that one simply cannot dump the clutch and get a smooth launch all the way up to 60 mph - do that on a GSX-R1000 and it'll wheelie you clean off the back. I used to race 600s at club level about 10 years ago and spent countless hours practising my launches; even geared right down I could only just hit 3~3.5 seconds and even then it would require a clutch service after a few runs, as the plates would be knackered.

I've found out what the * means though - it means that their test data has been corrected to standard temperature, pressure, etc; exactly how they've done this is not clear though. I'm assuming that they've done a fairly linear extrapolation between power, the above variables and the test times; however the problems of launch control means that the figures are unlikely to be obtainable, even if they are technically possible.

 

[Neeyik]

I blame the test that says you have to negotiate a fixed figure of eight regardless of the size/lock on your bike...that makes it a test of who has the smallest bike with the most lock, rather than a test of riding skill.

I would argue that it's still a test of riding skill - as I keep saying, one can do those moves, even on Ducati's; you just need to have the right technique (and I don't mean bouncing the rear wheel around!) to do it, which means either learning by yourself or being taught directly on how to do this. Therefore, the onus is still on the instructor to look carefully at the student's needs and adapt his/her training on that basis.

Yes it is easier to handle a commuter-style or trail bike at low walking speeds than a sports bike but that's just how it is! One is given a set test and you either choose to use an easy bike to complete it or use the bike you intend to carry on with afterwards, and accept the fact that it's going to be hard.

 

[Guden Oden]

Here's how you REALLY ride a sports bike... CLICKITY! I especially like the way he makes the bike rotate like that.

Be aware: adbanners may be work unsafe. Use caution when watching while your boss is around!

 

[Powderkeg]

Oh and by saying "out-perform" I included your comment of nimbleness when I referred to things like wheelbase, trail and so on. The R600 would only keep up on a tight track because the R1000 would have difficulty in getting the power down, not because it is less nimble.

The R600 is lighter, shorter (vertically) has a shorter wheel base, and has a smaller diameter and wider rear tire.

There is more difference than simply horsepower.

 

[Neeyik]

The R600 is lighter

...by 5kg. Such a difference can be lost amongst having different riders.

shorter (vertically)

Seat height is actually 15mm taller than the K5. Not really an issue though, as the weight distribution can be easily changed depending on the rider position.

has a shorter wheel base

...by 5mm. K5 has less rake but with more trail. Each difference is quite small and would be quite transparent to most riders.

and has a smaller diameter and wider rear tire.

Both have 17" rear wheels but the R600 has a 180/55 tyre, whereas the K5 is 190/55. Once you're at those kind of rear sizes, there isn't a huge difference in turn-in rate.

There is more difference than simply horsepower.

Indeed there is but in this particular example (GSX-R600 vs. GSX-R1000 K5) the chassis differences are so small that it would take a very good rider, in very specific circumstanes, to make them count. For the most part, which includes pretty much everyone who doesn't race or test bikes regularly, it is a perfectly reasonable argument to state that the K5 is just as nimble as the R600 and, in general, will out-perform the smaller bike thanks to its acceleration out of corners.

If it's any justification, the basis of my comments stems from my time of racing a Yamaha FZR-600 in 600cc and Open cc classes, about 12 years ago.

 

[Powderkeg]

So you are basically saying that since a normal rider who would never actually reach the full potential of either of these bikes wouldn't notice a difference, there is none?

I can assure you there is.


And if it's any consolation, my experience is both more recent, and more relevent than yours.

My R600.

 

[Neeyik]

So you are basically saying that since a normal rider who would never actually reach the full potential of either of these bikes wouldn't notice a difference, there is none?

In terms of nimbleness, probably not - things like throttle response are a different matter altogether.

I can assure you there is.

All I can say, is that I've ridden both (albeit briefly in both cases) and found the K5 just as easy to handle as a 600.

And if it's any consolation, my experience is both more recent, and more relevent than yours....

My R600.

Interesting, as that's not like a GSX-R600 at all. The tubular frame, square swing arm and other details all point to it being a SV650S.

All GSX-R600 models: http://www.suzukicycles.org/GSX-R-series/GSX-R600.shtml
All SV650 models: http://www.suzukicycles.org/SV-series/SV650-SV650S.shtml

 

[Citrous]

So you are basically saying that since a normal rider who would never actually reach the full potential of either of these bikes wouldn't notice a difference, there is none?

I can assure you there is.


And if it's any consolation, my experience is both more recent, and more relevent than yours.


My R600.

Or not. I hope you didn't pay a whole lot more for the aftermarket gixxer pipes and fairing. Credit to Neeyik. Shaaaaa - pow.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Interesting, as that's not like a GSX-R600 at all. The tubular frame, square swing arm and other details all point to it being a SV650S.

Remind me never to argue bikes with you!

 

[Phil]

my Dad just got this one yesterday...

BMW K 1200 R

it's supposed to be pretty quick too... (160+bhp)... apparently does 0-60mph in under 3 seconds (2.9s).

 

[dizietsma]

My last motorbike:


I still miss arriving anywhere with a big grin on my face thanks to this bike. Did my first ton-up on this, and it could cruise happily at 110 mph, while just touching 130 mph. If I still had it, I would no doubt have lost my licence long ago thanks to the recent proliferation of speed cameras. Had a matching Arai helmet too. You could outrace Porches on from the lights on one of these. I've actually had people get half-way across pedestian crossings and then run back to the pavement when they saw this coming down the road. I once even had about 60 people refuse to step onto a crossing until they were sure I was going to stop for the red light - only time I ever saw that in the centre of town during rush hour.

For anyone who lives in London, I once made it from Turnpike Lane to Bond Street in eleven minutes on this. Some 12 miles through the centre of town during the morning rush hour.

I was a very bad man when I was younger and riding motorbikes around town.

That reminds me fondly of my old blue and white GPX600 that had 6 previous owners and was a complete dog. Like you when I was younger I used to be fairly reckless on it, used to see how far I could get over the 30mph limit .. tut tut.

Eventually the gearbox locked solid ( for the second time ) and I ended up with a broken back, 7 broken ribs, 1 broken collarbone, concusion and a nice ride in the Royal London HEMS helicopter . 6 months later, 13 chest drains, one heart attack, a dose of MRSA and infected spinal column I was out and decided to give up on the bikes !

Well, at least for the moment, don't tell my wife though

 

[Geo]

Honda XL100. Err. . .25 years ago. :smile:

My wife says I can have a Harley anytime I want one. But I can only ride it to the end of the driveway and back.

Yes, I'm whipped.

 

[Nathan]

I found a more compelling demonstration for my bike.

http://tv1.ebner.cc/lc8-werbung

[edit]It doesn't sound like a sewing machine in real life--especially with a nice pair of FMFs on it . [/edit]

 

[Deepak]

So, I met with my first bike accident. Some cuts and bruises. I hit another bike (his mistake). Was thrown like a moto GP driver.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

That reminds me fondly of my old blue and white GPX600 that had 6 previous owners and was a complete dog. Like you when I was younger I used to be fairly reckless on it, used to see how far I could get over the 30mph limit .. tut tut.

Ahh, well everything was always a risk analysis for me. I rode fast on big and empty roads, but never on small ones. I would lane-split in static traffic, but never in moving traffic. Always wore boots, gloves, leathers and helmet, no matter what the weather. Never passed off control of my safety to what anyone else would do.

Sure I fell off a few times, and had one accident with a car, but never suffered anything worse than some bruises and a cut thumb. I sometimes rode very fast or otherwise broke the rules, but I was never reckless, and had no illusions about how badly I could be hurt if I put myself into risky positions on the road. Too easy for me to imagine the subsequent repair bills and severe injury in the event of my doing something stupid.

However, life is meant to be lived, and the time I spent on bikes gave me huge amounts of pleasure, and I wouldn't ever change that.

As a sidenote, my wife is a theatre manager at a orthopaedics hospital, and they have a lot of motorcycle accidents come through there - they also have victims of car accidents, rugby matches, and people who have broken their necks on those big garden trampolenes, so nothing is very safe if you put yourself in harm's way.

 

[Deepak]

I bought a new Bike, Bajaj Pulsar 150 DTSi (150cc)...

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Guys can you also write the names of Bike that you own. BTW, I am 5'4" and weigh 55 Kgs, would I be able to drive larger cc bikes like for example Honda Hornet 250? What do you think?