Whats taking Nvidia soo long?

[London Geezer]

I dunno about that , the r500 will be the second sm3.0 part from ati .

What's the first?

R520 , i believe that taped out first two completely diffrent cores

Oh god yeah, u know, i'll never get my head round that naming system...

 

[jvd]

Oh god yeah, u know, i'll never get my head round that naming system...

eh whatcya going to do , i mix up alot of things all the time

Second after the R520? Right, but they're coming out so close to one another than the "experience" going into both is likely about the same.

Well they have both been in development for awhile , not to mention the r400 which was scrapped and rolled into the r500. I think they have enough experiance that we shouldn't worry about any drastic slow downs going from the r420 to the r520 and I doubt the r500 will be a slouch . I don't think its going to be a 16x1 or more pipeline chip but i think clock for clock and pipeline for pipeline it will be more efficent and get more work done than the r420 or r520 .

 

[Jawed]

Isn't it more interesting what process each IHV's first generation next-gen console parts appear on? R500 is going to be 90nm. Isn't there talk of NVidia's PS3 part being 65nm? Which would presumably make it an IBM/Toshiba (?) part.

ATI's got lots of experience with low-k and has presumably about 18 months' experience working with 90nm.

I haven't a clue what NVidia's experience with either 90nm or 65nm is.

The other thing that's prolly worth asking is, will both IHV's be contracted to produce "lower-cost" refresh GPU parts for the respective consoles, say 18 months into the lifetime of the next-gen consoles? Wouldn't it make sense that contracts are in place to produce a lower-cost part (same performance?) some time?

Jawed

 

[Titanio]

Isn't it more interesting what process each IHV's first generation next-gen console parts appear on? R500 is going to be 90nm. Isn't there talk of NVidia's PS3 part being 65nm? Which would presumably make it an IBM/Toshiba (?) part.

Sony are manufacturing the GPU. 65nm is a possibility, but we'll have to wait and see.

The other thing that's prolly worth asking is, will both IHV's be contracted to produce "lower-cost" refresh GPU parts for the respective consoles, say 18 months into the lifetime of the next-gen consoles? Wouldn't it make sense that contracts are in place to produce a lower-cost part (same performance?) some time?

Jawed

Sony likely are licensing the design, and I imagine they can do what they want with it thereafter in terms of slimming it down size and cost-wise. They probably won't need to go to NVidia if they want to do that.

 

[nAo]

Sony are manufacturing the GPU. 65nm is a possibility, but we'll have to wait and see.

It was reported by a japanese magazine that GPU is being built by Sony and Toshiba on a 0.09 um process.

 

[j^aws]

Sony are manufacturing the GPU. 65nm is a possibility, but we'll have to wait and see.

It was reported by a japanese magazine that GPU is being built by Sony and Toshiba on a 0.09 um process.

Any linky-link please?

This isn't the same magazine that reported eDRAM too is it?

 

[nAo]

Any linky-link please?
This isn't the same magazine that reported eDRAM too is it?

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=470652&highlight=toshiba+gpu#470650

BTW, it was almost confirmed that the PS3 GPU has eDRAM by the Nikkei Microdevices magazine. The Cell will be produced in the 90nm SOI process and the GPU will be produced on bulk-silicon with eDRAM. The mass production is well on schedule, apparenly.

 

[j^aws]

Any linky-link please?
This isn't the same magazine that reported eDRAM too is it?

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=470652&highlight=toshiba+gpu#470650

BTW, it was almost confirmed that the PS3 GPU has eDRAM by the Nikkei Microdevices magazine. The Cell will be produced in the 90nm SOI process and the GPU will be produced on bulk-silicon with eDRAM. The mass production is well on schedule, apparenly.

Thanks...Nikkei are a reputable source I suppose compared to SpOng!

If so, VS+PS GPU seems less likely with eDRAM...especially if 90nm is confirmed...

 

[Titanio]

That quote doesn't say the GPU will be at 90nm though, does it? Just that Cell is manufacturing at that process..which is what STI have said thusfar (but doesn't exclude it being manufactured at 65nm going forward..not that that is necessarily likely for PS3, though we did here Sony was prepping for 65nm manufacturing, iirc).

 

[j^aws]

That quote doesn't say the GPU will be at 90nm though, does it? Just that Cell is manufacturing at that process..which is what STI have said thusfar (but doesn't exclude it being manufactured at 65nm going forward..not that that is necessarily likely for PS3, though we did here Sony was prepping for 65nm manufacturing, iirc).

Yeah that's true, but if it was 65nm, they would've distinguished that fact more clearly or you would've thought they would...

 

[Titanio]

That quote doesn't say the GPU will be at 90nm though, does it? Just that Cell is manufacturing at that process..which is what STI have said thusfar (but doesn't exclude it being manufactured at 65nm going forward..not that that is necessarily likely for PS3, though we did here Sony was prepping for 65nm manufacturing, iirc).

Yeah that's true, but if it was 65nm, they would've distinguished that fact more clearly or you would've thought they would...

Hmm..not sure. When I read that I didn't pick up much implication that the GPU would be 90nm. And that's also a second-hand quote..the article's original quote would probably be helpful.

 

[j^aws]

didnt kutarigai just said ps3 core designed for 65nm is but a dreams? where the interview posted here?

what did i say about long term subconscios infused hype, by fellow members, PRs or otherwise. time to lay down the foot brudders.

There's a difference in 65nm SOI and 65nm Bulk-CMOS. One currently works with eDRAM and the other doesn't and is designed for high clock speeds. CELL suits SOI, GPU with eDRAM suits Bulk-CMOS. I believe I posted a summary to yourself in another thread. Though, I won't be surprised if both are 90nm.

 

[Acert93]

Sony are manufacturing the GPU. 65nm is a possibility, but we'll have to wait and see.

It was reported by a japanese magazine that GPU is being built by Sony and Toshiba on a 0.09 um process.

If it is 90nm, and the R500 is 90nm, the biggest issue will be die size and eDRAM.

Even the FX series, in a closed box, would perform well. So even though the 9700 was a better DX9 card, in a closed box developers can work around that and use the peculiar features and strengths of a chip while avoiding pitfalls.

So if they end up on the same process, have ball park bandwidth, and have generally the same amount of transistors for logic, I doubt there will be huge differences. Instead I think we will see each design have strengths in their own areas.