Warhawk discussion*

[deepbrown]

I just played for a few hours, and the clan seems to be intact. I didn't check to see who's leader now though. Will do that next time. Finally used the chat button successfully for the first time by the way, so there's some progress ...

Shifty, that's just what I did - I set up a local match, so that I could fly around by myself. Then I joined with a second controller, so I could practice some different kinds of kills and lock-ons on a dummy. That's a good way to get the basics down. Then just start playing simple stuff, like anti-air missiles only, or tanks only, and watch how other people play their roles.

Since you have a regular group of local players, you should do some four player split screen sessions with just warhawks and stuff, to practice and have some fun. If I had any of those kinds of friends around, I'm sure I would be pretty good by now.

Sorry i left the match you joined. Was playing Jaeyden and we were training our whole team on how to use the drop ship in CTF (pick up jeep, take to flag, get in jeep with flag, dropship flys jeep home).

But then I got swapped to the other team and none of them spoke English....it was really frustrating (prob just as much for them, as I was screaming "HELP ME, I HAVE THE FLAG" all the time)....and I couldn't swap back to J's team as the game was full....so i just left.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Shifty, that's just what I did - I set up a local match, so that I could fly around by myself. Then I joined with a second controller, so I could practice some different kinds of kills and lock-ons on a dummy.

That's a good idea, though I don't have a second controller. Any way to fake it?

Since you have a regular group of local players, you should do some four player split screen sessions with just warhawks and stuff, to practice and have some fun. If I had any of those kinds of friends around, I'm sure I would be pretty good by now.

Well it all depends how interested they are. We tried WH a bit split screen online and got whooped. Too chaotic for noobs to enter and not get lost, so interest in the game seriously waned. Proper difficulty rankings, maybe servers with limited options and levels with limited vehicles etc., would make a big difference. I feel this was an online game for existing hardcore online gamers, rather than an introduction to online blasting. In fact I have the same complaints about other games, and so does 'the industry'. Which professional was it saying most people's experience of online gaming was to register, go online, get your butt handed to you by a 12 year old, try again, and give up? That's where single player games have the huge advantage. They introduce elements of the game gradually so you're not overwhelmed, and you can experiment somewhat at your own pace.

As for joining the B3D clan, it's not for me. My K/D ratio would see some serious grumbling from the more serious players! I'll just keep practising, watching scallywags stealing my kills all the flippin' time, until I'm a hardcore killing machine.

BTW How does the radar work exactly? Do you only show up if you shoot, if you run, or what?

 

[deepbrown]

That's a good idea, though I don't have a second controller. Any way to fake it?

Well it all depends how interested they are. We tried WH a bit split screen online and got whooped. Too chaotic for noobs to enter and not get lost, so interest in the game seriously waned. Proper difficulty rankings, maybe servers with limited options and levels with limited vehicles etc., would make a big difference. I feel this was an online game for existing hardcore online gamers, rather than an introduction to online blasting. In fact I have the same complaints about other games, and so does 'the industry'. Which professional was it saying most people's experience of online gaming was to register, go online, get your butt handed to you by a 12 year old, try again, and give up? That's where single player games have the huge advantage. They introduce elements of the game gradually so you're not overwhelmed, and you can experiment somewhat at your own pace.

As for joining the B3D clan, it's not for me. My K/D ratio would see some serious grumbling from the more serious players! I'll just keep practising, watching scallywags stealing my kills all the flippin' time, until I'm a hardcore killing machine.

BTW How does the radar work exactly? Do you only show up if you shoot, if you run, or what?

Shifty. Resistance was my first online game....my first real shooter as well. I sucked. Warhawk....I, for some reason, kind of rock at it. For someone who doesn't like shooters, or has played online - WH has been kind to me.. it's def for noobs as well.

Join a Level 1 game, that is Small or Medium (I'd go medium) Go for one that has maybe 8 players in it when you join (could be a total 32player match), but it will be a layed back game. Trust me. i can show you today if you like.

 

[Arwin]

That's a good idea, though I don't have a second controller. Any way to fake it?

I haven't tried. But if you just have one controller, then you can still go around and shoot all the tanks, jeeps and warhawks stationed on the ground using all the different kinds of weapons. In fact, that's something I could use some practice with, because especially with the Warhawk I can only just barely use the default rockets.

Very important to realise is that with for instance the rocket launcher, the warhawk, and the sam platform, you can keep the fire button pressed to lock on to something. Then when you have a lock, you let go.

Well it all depends how interested they are. We tried WH a bit split screen online and got whooped.

That's why I suggested starting with some local games. You can have some fun playing tag in Warhawks, or do races around the island in a Jeep, try to take each other out on foot just using sniper rifles, or knives, etc. There's a lot of mindless fun that can be had.

maybe servers with limited options and levels with limited vehicles etc., would make a big difference.

Yes, there are servers with skill and experience caps, so you should definitely try out with those first. You can also host your own game easily enough, and limit those to your friends (password) or set the skill cap really low, limit all the options, etc.

I feel this was an online game for existing hardcore online gamers, rather than an introduction to online blasting.

Flying the Warhawks, I would say, yes, to get really good at that (to the point where you can shake off even the dual launch SAM missiles) takes some investment. But other than that, this game is quite n00b friendly imho. You can always just choose to specialise in one type of thing and be useful to a team easily enough.

BTW How does the radar work exactly? Do you only show up if you shoot, if you run, or what?

As far as I know, the only way you don't show up on the radar is when you arm yourself with the knife. I now do that by default and only switch to another weapon when I need it - I'm guessing that most people will be doing this by now.

 

[deepbrown]

I haven't tried. But if you just have one controller, then you can still go around and shoot all the tanks, jeeps and warhawks stationed on the ground using all the different kinds of weapons. In fact, that's something I could use some practice with, because especially with the Warhawk I can only just barely use the default rockets.

Very important to realise is that with for instance the rocket launcher, the warhawk, and the sam platform, you can keep the fire button pressed to lock on to something. Then when you have a lock, you let go.



That's why I suggested starting with some local games. You can have some fun playing tag in Warhawks, or do races around the island in a Jeep, try to take each other out on foot just using sniper rifles, or knives, etc. There's a lot of mindless fun that can be had.



Yes, there are servers with skill and experience caps, so you should definitely try out with those first. You can also host your own game easily enough, and limit those to your friends (password) or set the skill cap really low, limit all the options, etc.



Flying the Warhawks, I would say, yes, to get really good at that (to the point where you can shake off even the dual launch SAM missiles) takes some investment. But other than that, this game is quite n00b friendly imho. You can always just choose to specialise in one type of thing and be useful to a team easily enough.



As far as I know, the only way you don't show up on the radar is when you arm yourself with the knife. I now do that by default and only switch to another weapon when I need it - I'm guessing that most people will be doing this by now.

Crouching or knife and you won't be on the radar. There's other things like - someone on your team has to belooking at the enemy for them to be on the map, and they come up when they shoot.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

So, line of sight from a team-mate = visible; shooting = visible; Moving at full speed = visible except with knife.

I've tried sneaky-sneaky a lot (being a shifty geezer and all) and the problem with that is you never see anyone! I had a nice run of kills on defender duty protecting home-base flag, using a flamer to fend off unwanted guests as it suits my approach to 'aiming', but not actually doing anything isn't the most exciting gameplay. And every time I find a nice little sniper spot, it's always miles from the action!

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Well. Well well well. Thought I'd try 30 minutes. Set about choosing server more wisely this time. Firstly I selected to filter only games of bottom rank - that did nothing. Filtered by my rank - that did nothing. Filtered by Sergeant, a rank I know some servers use - that did nothing! Every server is shown. Seems you can't filter out servers by rank.

So I find me a server rank capped to Sergeant, the minimum available (servers in my area, which I guess is EU). Pick a six-a-side TDM game on the full island map - ought not to be too overwhelming. Within 5 minutes of me starting, the reds, my team, were entirely pinned in their base. There was a sniper on the hill overlooking the base so on one occasion I'm dead before I even know I've started. I find me a sniper tower and take out a couple of hillside scallywags - apparently having them in the middle of your crosshair isn't the way to hit them, and you need to shoot pretty much on the top of their character. Don't want to do nothing but snipe that chump though. I also notice he's bouncing down towers and back up again. Looks like he's getting binoculars? Read about them, and saw the green laser beam. The two flyers are working well in cahoots, so you couldn't move in a plane. Still I didn't want to be doing nothing but snipering for 20 minutes. One time I snuck up to that base with my knife equipped all sneaky sneaky. Didn't stop them spotting me and fighting two on one though... Anyway, I took my chance when the planes were out of commission and grabbed a plane, flew it low and fast over the water to a far corner blue base, got out to capture it, and BOOM I'm dead, from a guy on the complete other side of the hill. So they had the entire island pinned down. And worse still, thinks me, I've had big missile launchers before and launched silo after silo into enemy ground and got no kills at all, so how'd this guy get me from 6 miles away?

So I give up on that idea. I need something simpler. Easier. Okay, I can't select a lower rank than Sergeant, but a 2 player game? That'll make me player three. Two on my side, one on the other. That'll give me a fighting chance.

Red versus blue, I'm on the Red Team, and my teammate's winning about 15-0. So I switched team. Fly around a bit. Can't even find the guy to shoot. If he's happy to sit still, he'll never show on the radar, I'll never find him. Mmmm, that's fun. Game runs out after 2 minutes. Start again, grab a plane, secure a zone. No resistance, obviously. Find a bloke, try to straffe him, can't aim for toffee. Can't straffe the tank because the tree's in the way and then DEAD! He wasn't in the tree anyway, but had moved away (which the radar doesn't show) and missiled me, I think. And then it turns out that the blue guy jumped team and now it was two against one, Mr. Flyboy and his mate in a missile turret! I spend my entire fly time trying to shake off missiles, which you can only keep up for so long.

So...um...I quit. I'm clearly missing something here. Either you die within two seconds of moving, or you play sneaky-sneaky and never see anyone. I can't fathom at all how these weapons are supposed to work. The electric bomb thing, I hold the button to charge up and it doesn't do anything. Do I need a lock on a target? If so, I never stay alive long enough to charge it. Bah!

 

[deepbrown]

Well. Well well well. Thought I'd try 30 minutes. Set about choosing server more wisely this time. Firstly I selected to filter only games of bottom rank - that did nothing. Filtered by my rank - that did nothing. Filtered by Sergeant, a rank I know some servers use - that did nothing! Every server is shown. Seems you can't filter out servers by rank.

So I find me a server rank capped to Sergeant, the minimum available (servers in my area, which I guess is EU). Pick a six-a-side TDM game on the full island map - ought not to be too overwhelming. Within 5 minutes of me starting, the reds, my team, were entirely pinned in their base. There was a sniper on the hill overlooking the base so on one occasion I'm dead before I even know I've started. I find me a sniper tower and take out a couple of hillside scallywags - apparently having them in the middle of your crosshair isn't the way to hit them, and you need to shoot pretty much on the top of their character. Don't want to do nothing but snipe that chump though. I also notice he's bouncing down towers and back up again. Looks like he's getting binoculars? Read about them, and saw the green laser beam. The two flyers are working well in cahoots, so you couldn't move in a plane. Still I didn't want to be doing nothing but snipering for 20 minutes. One time I snuck up to that base with my knife equipped all sneaky sneaky. Didn't stop them spotting me and fighting two on one though... Anyway, I took my chance when the planes were out of commission and grabbed a plane, flew it low and fast over the water to a far corner blue base, got out to capture it, and BOOM I'm dead, from a guy on the complete other side of the hill. So they had the entire island pinned down. And worse still, thinks me, I've had big missile launchers before and launched silo after silo into enemy ground and got no kills at all, so how'd this guy get me from 6 miles away?

So I give up on that idea. I need something simpler. Easier. Okay, I can't select a lower rank than Sergeant, but a 2 player game? That'll make me player three. Two on my side, one on the other. That'll give me a fighting chance.

Red versus blue, I'm on the Red Team, and my teammate's winning about 15-0. So I switched team. Fly around a bit. Can't even find the guy to shoot. If he's happy to sit still, he'll never show on the radar, I'll never find him. Mmmm, that's fun. Game runs out after 2 minutes. Start again, grab a plane, secure a zone. No resistance, obviously. Find a bloke, try to straffe him, can't aim for toffee. Can't straffe the tank because the tree's in the way and then DEAD! He wasn't in the tree anyway, but had moved away (which the radar doesn't show) and missiled me, I think. And then it turns out that the blue guy jumped team and now it was two against one, Mr. Flyboy and his mate in a missile turret! I spend my entire fly time trying to shake off missiles, which you can only keep up for so long.

So...um...I quit. I'm clearly missing something here. Either you die within two seconds of moving, or you play sneaky-sneaky and never see anyone. I can't fathom at all how these weapons are supposed to work. The electric bomb thing, I hold the button to charge up and it doesn't do anything. Do I need a lock on a target? If so, I never stay alive long enough to charge it. Bah!

Is this you Shifty?

http://sarcasticgamer.com/wp/index.php/2008/03/warhawk-needs-training-wheels.html

Anyway Shifty. We need to get you on the best team...and we need to get someone to show you the ropes. I'm happy to do that. It's not good being on a team of noobs against some pros. Best way to train is to train from the best. Actually the best way to have fun is to know what you're doing And I'd stay on the ground for a month. Forget about WH's.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Nah, I'm way ahead of that guy. I had the smarts to try a solo level and check out the weapons my first time (excluding online with mates of course ) Also gave me a chance to tune the controls so I was happy with them.

You're right, it is no fun being on a poor team versus a good team, but I would prefer to be on a properly weighted experience/ability server. The 'balanced teams' idea doesn't seem in effect very well...

I'll add that buying into Warhawk my expectations were heavily influenced by Star Wars Battlefields. I'm not a shooter fan but I really enjoyed that game and against AI bots could take on overwhelming odds with pretty good results, even in hard mode. I could load that game up and have a 15-30 minute session between work. Warhawk is in principle similar and, I thought, would offer quick games for a pleasant pastime, but its on a whole different level such that the experience has undertones of work involved. I want to be able to play rather than train. I don't mind getting better over time, but needing to spend time to even begin isn't quite what I was looking for when I signed up. Still, that's the army for you. All glamorous ads and exciting posters but the reality is you turn up, train hard, and then get shot, which is why so many people prefer desk jobs!

 

[patsu]

deepbrown, how's the matchmaking like ? When the GAF guys play, do you get high level enemies or a mixed bag ?

I am wondering if it's a good idea to get Shifty into the GAF clan. There will be people covering his back all the time if he runs along with the pack.

 

[Jaeyden]

I don't particularly care about being the bad-est group out there (I get that vibe from the GAF clan!) - I just want to mess around and have a bit of a hoot.

Ha! I just saw this. - Right after I got done trying to recruit you cause you had no clan tag. There are some real good players over there, but it's not like that at all. We actually kinda stink in the competition department.

 

[deepbrown]

Nah, I'm way ahead of that guy. I had the smarts to try a solo level and check out the weapons my first time (excluding online with mates of course ) Also gave me a chance to tune the controls so I was happy with them.

You're right, it is no fun being on a poor team versus a good team, but I would prefer to be on a properly weighted experience/ability server. The 'balanced teams' idea doesn't seem in effect very well...

I'll add that buying into Warhawk my expectations were heavily influenced by Star Wars Battlefields. I'm not a shooter fan but I really enjoyed that game and against AI bots could take on overwhelming odds with pretty good results, even in hard mode. I could load that game up and have a 15-30 minute session between work. Warhawk is in principle similar and, I thought, would offer quick games for a pleasant pastime, but its on a whole different level such that the experience has undertones of work involved. I want to be able to play rather than train. I don't mind getting better over time, but needing to spend time to even begin isn't quite what I was looking for when I signed up. Still, that's the army for you. All glamorous ads and exciting posters but the reality is you turn up, train hard, and then get shot, which is why so many people prefer desk jobs!

I run around like a pleb...pick up weapons....and win. It's easy. Trust me. I don't think most of the time. And if I really don't want to think, I join a small game and just win win. In fact I'm one of those guys who makes all the noobs quit

Moreover, you shouldn't be so surprised that it's hard at first after you've joined the game so long after release.

 

[slider]

Ha! I just saw this. - Right after I got done trying to recruit you cause you had no clan tag. There are some real good players over there, but it's not like that at all. We actually kinda stink in the competition department.

Dude, I just sent you a PSN message because I was so embarassed over my showing tonight. I was shockingly bad tonight. But, I will be back...

I think I may well ask for an invite to GAF (sorry B3D!). Just so I can play with people I "know".

See you soon Jaeyden...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Moreover, you shouldn't be so surprised that it's hard at first after you've joined the game so long after release.

I can understand people being good at the game and that doesn't bother me. What I don't understand is the lack of support for new players. It's the same in any online game I guess - everyone starts new but if you're late to the party, tough. It wouldn't be at all difficult to limit games to people with a certain amount of play hours - although I expect some *&#@!$ would create new accounts just for picking on noobs - but that doesn't appear to be an option. The filtering just plain doesn't work, and even if it did the bottom rank out there is for people with an awful lot of experience.

I'm reminded of Pixeljunk talking about racers, saying they pitched the difficulty at their ability and not their customers. That's probably a common fault for game developers who development cycle has lots and lots of playtime with full-time playtesters hammering it out and beta tests with hardcore gamers. How many test the game with the other side of the gaming spectrum to ensure they can find a comfortable way in and get enjoyment from the beginning all the way through their progression?

 

[Arwin]

I've noticed that in a match such as capture the flag, you are left alone more and it's easier to do your own thing, because people are more focussed on the zones and the flag.

Anyway, you shouldn't worry too much and give up too soon. From the sounds of it, you are learning quick enough.

If you want we could plan a game with just us two or some more guys from the board here, and I'll talk you through the little things I know. I'm not good either, but depending on what group I end up in, I try to do more or less. If I notice I'm playing with a bunch of hot-shots, then I specialise more and take a more supporting role - keeping an eye on a sniping tower and taking the sniper out if he gets in there, or manning a SAM site ... especially with the latter, in the heat of a CTF battle you can make a big difference - last game I got nine kills, including a transporter, before someone air-striked me. I've had a lot of fun with the SAM site, sometimes I just use them as regular rockets and shoot in the area of where I think someone is sniping.

I do notice things progress - I'm fairly decent with a tank, but these days most tanks will carry an additional player, which is just what you need to turn the tide in a tank vs tank battle, where so far I usually managed to get the first shot in, but more often than not was the first to blow up.

Or we can join a multi-player game together and focus on cooperating, driving a tank together, covering each other's back, etc. Few people still do that, and it should get us ahead, or at least into the middle of it, easily enough.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Thanks for the offer. I only really play games to pass odd moments, so wouldn't timetable anything. I'll certainly persevere just because I'm a sucker for punishment and like a good whinge

 

[deepbrown]

Thanks for the offer. I only really play games to pass odd moments, so wouldn't timetable anything. I'll certainly persevere just because I'm a sucker for punishment and like a good whinge

Shifty. Warhawk is easy. Eeeeeasy. There's just a few things you need to get the hang of.

I entered late in the game, and I'm shit at shooters and online. But one day it clicked (and that's not Warhawks...I only started flying them about a month in).

Always find the rifle - aim at peoples heads and get it locked on there. Never run away from somebody shooting at you - always run towards them aiming at their head as you run either side to side (and forward) or forward and around (so they find it harder to lock onto you). Learn how far your grenade will throw and throw it. Ground combat sussed.

Now look for weapons and learn where they are. Find the mines and abuse them. You can only have 4 mines in the world at the same time. Forget the sniper rifle. Find the binnoculars and look for places where lots of enemies hang around and get them.

If a tank comes towards you - don't run away (unless you have a rocket launcher....you can kill it from a distance then....or binoculars. You'll do better if you run towards it. Throw some grenades as you're running. Jump on top of the tank and jump around like a nutter - they'll most likely get out to kill you....you get in the tank and kill them

Add me Shifty...(psn: deepbrown) then I can see when you're on and maybe join you. I can join all levels except level 1.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Shifty. Warhawk is easy. Eeeeeasy. There's just a few things you need to get the hang of.

I think that's exactly it! Paired up with matey this evening (firmware 2.20 has broken my bluetooth comms ) and played a couple of one-on-ones, and this proved a fundamental point - don't use motion controls! It's fine for flying, but for hovering it's a dog, which is where I was going wrong. Using normal controls for hovering makes straffing actually possible. We tried out some radar test, and I was surprised to find running with any weapon doesn't blip the radar. I thought you needed the knife equipped but running around with a sniper rifle or automatic still left you invisible - it's only using the weapon where the knife doesn't show.

The server situation is utter tripe though! We were getting different lists of servers (he lives five miles away) and the same server showing up with different stats. We both joined the server called 'Beginner' and ended up playing totally different games. Filtering by rank does nothing, and most servers are uncapped anyway so there's nothing to stop some scallywags dominating.

And speaking of scallywags, playing CTF they had a damned cheat! A red guy grabbed the flag and wouldn't land it. He hid in a shed. For a while I was wondering what he was doing and thought it was just an idiot who didn't know they had to get the flag to the drop-off point, but the way he ran and hid in a corner gave him away. Off course being on your side you can't kill him and get the flag back - I did try! Grenades and everything else. This was the second time in maybe 4 CTF games where a guy on my team has deliberately not dropped the flag off. What $@#%&*! wants to play a game where their entire input is to scupper a team from scoring? And this is a pretty cheat-reduced game isn't it? Online gaming has a pretty bad rap with those on the outside, and I can see why!

There's also serious issues with dominance. One game I joined, waiting for matey to sort out his network troubles (have you noticed every error on the PS3 is a 80010009?) was zones on a tiddly map, I think 12 or 16 players. When the reds controlled 3 of 4 bases, it was impossible to do anything. They drove a tank into HQ and I was getting shot before I could ever get to weapons to defend myself with. They had two planes buzzing and a sniper on the hillside. Those situations are unrecoverable and a couple of those could easily turn a fella off the game.

I think a lot comes down to servers, and picking a game that works. The game itself doesn't really support that to a proper extent. It's more a case of try your luck and see what you end up with. It also doesn't support clan/buddy match-up. We had to find a server and both log on, rather than log on as a team on the same side. As a final point, PS3's comms sucks! Lack of XB360 style in-game messaging and cross game chat is a chronic oversight. I can appreciate Sony not wanting to roll it out until they've got their amazing uber network virtual life going, but online gamers really need that stuff straight away. Having to request a chat in XMB, and them to know to check their messages to join it, is cumbersome, and that the conversation doesn't roll over into gaming etc. is just plain dumb! Sure, it's fine for video-chatting with relatives, but it's way short of what gamers want.

 

[macabre]

There's also serious issues with dominance. One game I joined, waiting for matey to sort out his network troubles (have you noticed every error on the PS3 is a 80010009?) was zones on a tiddly map, I think 12 or 16 players. When the reds controlled 3 of 4 bases, it was impossible to do anything. They drove a tank into HQ and I was getting shot before I could ever get to weapons to defend myself with. They had two planes buzzing and a sniper on the hillside. Those situations are unrecoverable and a couple of those could easily turn a fella off the game.

This issue really became worse after the last patch and hopefully will be adressed with the next one. In your first game after logging in you will replace some unnerved fella on the losing team (or sometimes a bored one from the winning team). After that it mostly changes round after round.

I had aproblem with that as well when I started playing again but now I find it even fun . It`s more satisfiing to kill one from the dominating team, and if your getting good you can get a healthy amount of kills. The dominating team tends to get careless and if you learn to take advantage of that it can be fun as well.

Another tip: Don`t leave the house without a RPG. It`s THE allrounder weapon in the game.

 

[Jaeyden]

The easiest way to join with a buddy is for one of you to pick the server and enter the game. Then you go to community --> buddies ---> select your friend and choose join game. The buddy list updates any time you refresh it (the clan list is bugged and doesn't). Also, did you know you can choose where to spawn? On the D-pad press a direction to choose a base that your team occupies to spawn there....helps when they've got tanks in your base.