Vista won't show fancy side to pirates

ANova said:
Don't forget Aero is one of if not the biggest feature MS is pushing for Vista, without it Vista looks alot more like a slightly updated XP.
Funny you say that, one of the recent Microsoft events I attended had one of the technical evangelists litterally shouting about how many great things were being ignored because people were focusing on the pretty GUI :oops:

Search from everywhere and vastly improved security come up a lot. The one you guys might not see (but they're pushing heavily at businesses) are the new hibernate, RAM drive and other battery saving gizmos for laptops.

Jack
 
JHoxley said:
Funny you say that, one of the recent Microsoft events I attended had one of the technical evangelists litterally shouting about how many great things were being ignored because people were focusing on the pretty GUI :oops:

Search from everywhere and vastly improved security come up a lot. The one you guys might not see (but they're pushing heavily at businesses) are the new hibernate, RAM drive and other battery saving gizmos for laptops.

Jack

I know of every change/addition to the os and believe me, most of it is small beans compared to Aero and D3D10. The other big things that it was supposed to introduce (WinFX, WinFS and Nomad) have been delayed indefinitely. I really couldn't care less about the new and annoyingly intrusive security center and DRM additions.

A complete list of changes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Vista
 
um WinFX hasn't been 'delayed indefinitely'.... And it was always the biggest feature of vista too...

From what I understand WinFS will be made avaliable to Vista server users first. Afterall it's a pretty massive change. When it gets rolled out to consumers is probably anyones guess.
 
Graham said:
um WinFX hasn't been 'delayed indefinitely'.... And it was always the biggest feature of vista too...
No, there were many big features that were suppose to revolutionize Vista as the next great OS if you remember at all PDC03, instead what we're getting is a horribly cut back and delayed os with only 20% of what was promised due to bad management.
 
er. sure....

Yes WinFS has been delayed, although you can already get betas of it if you are feeling very brave. It's not exactly unexpected, an object file system isn't something you can pull out from under a rug and go 'tada!'. It takes time. In perticular the ability to store .net objects withouth serialization sounds really quite interesting to me.

The actual 'new feature list' of vista, if from memory, is around 3,000 long. So while two of the major bullet points have been delayed, it doesn't exactly mean the OS is dead.

And don't forget it's not just one OS. it's also Vista servers, Vista media centre, Vista tablet edition, etc. This is the first time MS has released all major versions of the OS at the same time.

From what I've read about the new audio stack, the reimplemented stuff is actually both better quality and better performance. I forget the details, but the 32bit-throughout gives you much much better sound quality and moving it into user-mode (out of kernel-mode) removes context switching and thus improves performance. Probably also increases stability in the case of crappy drivers. Similar sort of logic to WDDM/D3D10.

Yeah. There is a very good interview on channel9 about this, I can't remember exactly, but I think the lowest level Api guarenteed less than ~5ms audio responce time (or something like that). Basically it put it into professional audio equipment territory.

Other things like the completly rebuilt tcp/ip stack would be a similar example. Again there is an impressive interview on channel9, in one stress test, high-ping high packet loss situation I think they boosted their download speed by over 5x. Lots of things under the surface that can't be noticed all that easily.

Saying lets not worry about it because in a year or two the problem might go away isn't right in my view because we forget that customers may need to buy upgrades of their software to get back to the performance they used to have.

Sigh. First it effects legacy applications, and does not effect them any where near as badly as you might exect. This is what I said. Only certain parts of GDI are currently accelerated anyway.

A clear example of the poor performance is to open an explorer window in Vista and XP and click and drag a selection rectangle. On XP it should be quick and smooth, on Vista it has a noticable lag. Or in classic mode try dragging a window and watch the cpu usage.

I find dragging a selection box to be perfectly responsive on both XP and vista.
In classic mode, afaik, you can use XP drivers, with gdi hardware acceleration, so if you are getting high cpu usage from dragging a window then I guess you do not have drivers that support this. Which isn't exactly unexpected as it's a beta.


What I'd really like to know is why MS made GDI+ to not be hardware accelerated anymore, considering pretty much all apps use it... Same thing with directsound too by the way. Why the fuck remove features already implemented? *boggles*

It's a design issue. GDI's design is such that you are drawing to a single buffer. You have a device context for that device, which basically means you lock that surface and can both draw to it, and read from it. For a hardware accelerated UI, both these issues pretty much make things impossible (perforance wise). You don't want to lock anything, and you really really don't want to read back data.
As I say, 'GDI' in .net does get full vista acceleration, because it was designed such that you can detect when either of these cases is required, and in the vast, vast majority of cases, they are not.
In XP, you can call GetDC(0) to get the device context of the desktop. This is the surface all windows are rendered to in XP. Programs that take screenshots of the desktop use this. However, do this in vista and you will instantly disable the compositing engine, as you can imagine, it would be pretty much impossible to lock this surface with acceptable performance at both the app end, and for the entire OS.

As for DirectSound, are you thinking of the XNA framework? this does remove direct sound, but instead replaces it with XAct, which is a much better API, and is cross platform (with xbox 360, like the rest of xna). However MDX 1.1 will still stick around...


Once I get the next vista beta and office 2007 beta then I'll probably end up moving off xp as my primary os.
 
screen_200x158.jpg

Just what I was waiting for to increase my browsing convenience! That will make it much easier to see! I cannot wait to write a letter or design a program that way!

I don't even use the XP UI.

The newest and hottest Vista item for developers: all UI elements can float wherever you want them, and are 3D animated. Like a menu item that pops up somewhere and has a 3D rendered scene that hints at it's use. It makes using Windows Vista into a new game for boring corporate users: the hunt for the right, but unrecognizable menu item you want.

Did I say that they encourage all developers to throw the known and trusted UI away, and design their own one? And that all of the elements of all of them can float around your desktop all the time, if you or the devs please?

Might look interesting, but how are you going to get any work done that way? And I'm not even thinking about what that might require me to do to get a simple program written and accepted. Do I need 3D StudioMAX and a lot of experience in rendering nice 3D scenes for that?



Nah, the simplest one is most often best. It might look less interesting, but that is only fun for a short while.
 
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There are definitely some major improvements at the core level, even if WinFS and such have been removed.

For example, two new features are that NTFS is now self healing and can correct many corruptions on the fly without running chkdsk, and that NTFS and the registry are now fully transactional with complete ACID semantics available to apps to use.

Just because some of the over-hyped features have been delayed doesn't mean there is not a whole lot of good stuff coming in Vista.
 
DiGuru said:
Just what I was waiting for to increase my browsing convenience! That will make it much easier to see! I cannot wait to write a letter or design a program that way!
You do know that the view you posted is just an alternative to alt-tab/exposè clone, do you? I.e. only for switching between programs. As such, I found it useful. Of course, I'll admit that it's also fun to look at videos and games still running in that side-view ;)
 
PeterT said:
You do know that the view you posted is just an alternative to alt-tab/exposè clone, do you? I.e. only for switching between programs. As such, I found it useful. Of course, I'll admit that it's also fun to look at videos and games still running in that side-view ;)
Yes, I know. But the novelty will wear off, while forcing developers to make lots of yummy 3D stuff for that initial "WOW" effect, to get their stuff accepted and not look very out of date. Which is just what this is all about, IMHO.
 
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