Vendor Logos in Games ?

[KimB]

Yes, snipers are essential for teamplay. That's another thing that I find silly. People that whine about "camping" in CTF and bombing run. Heck, I've even seen the occasional camping complaint in Assault. The way I see it, camping in DM is lame. The vast majority of the time, once you discover a camper's spot, it's relatively easy to kill 'em, making it less useful and more "lame" in deathmatch.

But in any of the team gamemodes, "camping" is a part of the game. I'll even support camping in Team DM, provided it's part of the teamwork, not just a lone player who likes to camp.

Which reminds me of a really fun match. At a rather small LAN party, about four of us were playing UT. We decided to play a few matches in CTF-Face against Godlike bots. Sniping was an absolutely essential element in winning those matches . The sad thing was, I was the one charged with sniping, and at the time I had a pretty cruddy PC. I was attempting to snipe these Godlike bots with a framerate between 20 fps and 30 fps. Surprisingly, I didn't do too bad.

 

[KimB]

UT2003 has it pretty much right now with lower ammo for rockets and higher ammo for minigun. Now if only they'ed increase the area of the shock combo ..... hey - now I'm bitching too

Heh...they've been continually reducing the area of the shock combo since the original Unreal. I think the primary reason is because people are getting better at it, making the weapon more and more powerful.

More importantly for me, though, I feel that the more uneven terrain really makes the shock combo harder to pull of. While it does seem that it's a bit easier to pull off a moving combo (apparently the energy ball has a higher cross section than it did in UT...), it seems harder to judge where I need to place it, meaning while I can get a combo frequently, I have a harder time making it useful. I guess that would come with practice, though, if I cared to play.

 

[UberLord]

Why doesn't quote or copy 'n' paste work with Mozilla on this forum? bleh

I'll second that camping bit - it's part and parcel for every gametype. I'd say even including DM. For example, on DM-Zeto (UT) the majority of peeps end up in the big room under the flak because it's the central point and houses the shock and shield belt. It's the honey pot. If you want my toys, you gotta get 'em.

The only kind of camper I really don't like is the sniper - but then that all boils down to the map. I really don't like playing CTF-Face as all the spawn points are in full view of the snipers on the opposing tower. 2 really good snipers and it's game over baby Bad thats more of a badly designed map more than anything else.

 

[Doomtrooper]

Since this thread is completley off topic, CTF face is a horrid map just because of the spawn points...spawn points should always be behind cover...
Now some CTF face mods like Face 2 made the map liveable...UT 2003 Face 3 is crap..far too big..far too many hiding places.

 

[KimB]

The only kind of camper I really don't like is the sniper - but then that all boils down to the map. I really don't like playing CTF-Face as all the spawn points are in full view of the snipers on the opposing tower. 2 really good snipers and it's game over baby Bad thats more of a badly designed map more than anything else.

This is also the reason why CTF-Face is so popular among some circles

 

[Nagorak]

They actually made the plasma gun useful, and got rid of the stupidest weapon ever to grace UT (Razorjack). The "headshot" area also seems to have been reduced.

The weapon balance in UT2k3 is BS. The RL is too strong. And the removal of the Razor Jack is just retarded. The RJ was good in the right situation. They could have reduced its use as a spam gun, and kept it in the game. As a headshot gun, the RJ was awesome and you could take someone down quick if you knew how to gauge where the blades would go.

In UT2k3 they just removed the RJ and replaced it with another gimped gun known as the Minigun. Even if the Minigun had unlimited ammo it is just too weak to be useful. Even if the Rocket Launcher held 4 rockets it's just too powerful to be balanced. Epic showed they didn't have a clue by attempting to bypass the real weapon balance issues (too little/too much damage) by adjusting the ammo. In the end they didn't accomplish anything... UT2k3 has some good stuff going for it, but the weapon balance is just weak.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Ususally, when everybody basically bitches and moans about different weapons being good or bad...that's an indication that the weapon balance is pretty good.

 

[UberLord]

Weapon "balance" is pure BS.

How are the weapons supposed to be balanced?

Face it - guns kill. Some guns kill better than others. Live with it.

"Pa, Johnny wouldn't die from my assault rifle and he beat me up with a portable nuclear weapon! 'snot fair! WAAAAAAAHHHHHH"

IMO, minigun in UT2003 is just as deadly as in UT. If you're accurate
However, all guns take longer to kill with in UT2003. Is this a bad thing? IMO it's a good thing because it encourges better accuracy and stops the noobies from quitting instantly.

 

[790]

Even if the Minigun had unlimited ammo it is just too weak to be useful. Even if the Rocket Launcher held 4 rockets it's just too powerful to be balanced.

The minigun is leathal in the right hands, particularly for smaller games, rather than FFA. Go and look at some of the CPL UT2003 demos, the minigun was invaluable in those matches.

Same for the shock combo, used properly, it's still one of the most powerful weapons. Again, see the CPL demos. The finals are @ http://cpl.netfire.com/demos/

The real "weapon balance" problems are just overcrowded maps, that are far too small and spammy. Play on Tokara forest or Plunge, and then tell me that the rocket launcher is overpowered, or that the flak is a spam gun. They aren't, it's the maps.

 

[Doomtrooper]

Some of those demos are great example of what a good script writer can do, since I was forced to use them myself and why I lost interest in the game..especially when these players Alias and join public servers and really hurt the overall image of the game to non-pro players.
I filled in for a few clans after mine closed up, [K] and [A]..played a few with SOB...I was amazed at how scripts were used.

Be it shield jumps or translocator binds or shock double binds for a pulbic server crowd to get exposed to this was just bad news for the game, I don't know how many people left servers I was playing on sick of getting smoked every second...hence the need for the Pure server mod.

I agree with 790, weapons are a factor but the map layout also condones spamming....Anyone play thorns or thorns II...Hydro Bases was great for Snipers etc..Geothermal in UT 2003 was a joke.
UT 2003:

CTF-Maul- Crap Death match map (flak galore) yet supposed to be CTF ?
CTF-Geothermal-crap map again..Death Match...certainly not CTF ??

My fav maps were Orbital 2 and Chrome.. (flag carrier has multiple options for exits, fairly large, multiple entrances into the base for offense)

Magma was ok if it wasn't for the 20 fps

I certainly hope UT 2003 gets a facelift and improved upon, bring back some of old UT magic.

 

[790]

Some of those demos are great example of what a good script writer can do

Actually, if you're talking about the CPL demos, then scripts were banned. All they could do was set binds from the menus, no custom configs, no extended binds, nothing beyond what joe bloggs does on routine setup.

 

[jvd]

Why don't game dev's pull an E.T . Basicly have companys pay to have thier products in the games. Like E.T and the reese's pieces . Some games you really can't do that but in others you can. Basicly I'm playing Earth and beyond alot right now. How about When you sell items instead of having fictional names you have like The sears series 3 engine. Or when your at certian Space stations instead of fake adds playing in the holo's have real ones playing. It works in movies why not in games ?

 

[KimB]

I don't think it will be long, jvd. But right now, games still don't have the universal appeal of other forms of media. Games will need to have more widespread acceptance before companies will bother to pay any significant amount of money for product placement. We'll also probably see product placement in console games first, since they cater to a larger market.

 

[UberLord]

Intel and McDonalds have product placement in the latest "The Sims" game.

 

[Dio]

There is also the violence issue. Big companies are likely to shy away from games about shooting things, especially people.

Let's face it, GTA is THE ideal type of environment for product-placement - but no preponderance of ads in there. Quel surprise...

Car games in general are a good example of the problem. Most car manufacturers will NOT license you to use their product if the car can be damaged by the user. If you want an example as to the only ways the marketing can cope with it, look at the use of BMW in the Bond movies - although the cars take a beating, they continue to function perfectly... you are supposed to get the idea that even after driving it off the roof of the parking lot into the rental car shop you could still drive it away.

 

[ERP]

Car games in general are a good example of the problem. Most car manufacturers will NOT license you to use their product if the car can be damaged by the user. If you want an example as to the only ways the marketing can cope with it, look at the use of BMW in the Bond movies - although the cars take a beating, they continue to function perfectly... you are supposed to get the idea that even after driving it off the roof of the parking lot into the rental car shop you could still drive it away

Actually there are very few car manufacturers (only 1 we came accross) who care about in game damage. They all cared about "using the vehicle as a weapon" and the driver had to appear to be safe at all times.

 

[RussSchultz]

Actually there are very few car manufacturers (only 1 we came accross) who care about in game damage. They all cared about "using the vehicle as a weapon" and the driver had to appear to be safe at all times.

Well, that takes all the fun out of it, doesn't it?

 

[Tahir2]

About as much fun as Carmageddon... poor excuse for a game IMO!

 

[Dio]

Ah, well, I love all the Carmageddons. To me GTA3 is but a second-rate imitator.