Value of NXGamer technical investigation videos *spawn

[Shifty Geezer]

I motion to close the thread. The course has been run several times over and another revolution on the cyclical arguments has begun.

At this point in time I consider it an experiment in forum maturity and self moderation - it never should have been left open as we all knew exactly what the outcome was going to be. Can any contributors pull themselves away? It's always left to the mods to save people wasting their time on such arguments. Well, I'm not their mum! If they aren't posting against forum rules and want to say the same old same old things, if they really can't find anything better or more fun to do with their time, who am I to interrupt their hobby of 'bashing my head against a wall'?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

At this point in time I consider it an experiment in forum maturity and self moderation - it never should have been left open as we all knew exactly what the outcome was going to be. Can any contributors pull themselves away? It's always left to the mods to save people wasting their time on such arguments. Well, I'm not their mum! If they aren't posting against forum rules and want to say the same old same old things, if they really can't find anything better or more fun to do with their time, who am I to interrupt their hobby of 'bashing my head against a wall'?

I'm basically at the point where my only contributions are now inane posts like my last one.

That said, this thread has served to keep polluting posts from constantly cropping back up in the relevant tech thread.

Regards,
SB

 

[zed]

I motion to close the thread. The course has been run several times over and another revolution on the cyclical arguments has begun.

Accept the power of the nomination of being a moderator
mate you will do well in this task

 

[iroboto]

At this point in time I consider it an experiment in forum maturity and self moderation - it never should have been left open as we all knew exactly what the outcome was going to be. Can any contributors pull themselves away? It's always left to the mods to save people wasting their time on such arguments. Well, I'm not their mum! If they aren't posting against forum rules and want to say the same old same old things, if they really can't find anything better or more fun to do with their time, who am I to interrupt their hobby of 'bashing my head against a wall'?

Normally I'd say 'ok'. But I hate seeing more people self delete / get banned etc. So few numbers here. I would rather close the aggravating thread than wait for members to sort it out without mediation. IMO, strong moderation policies is what keeps the culture of a forum. It's a bit like why we have laws and law enforcement, they allow society to conduct and do a great deal of things because they can rely on the law to direct flow, traffic, discourage poor behaviour etc. I think strong moderation does the same thing, which is why imo Neogaf has a harder time than Era. A lack of moderation always leads into a great deal of noise among the little signal that is there. Era with stronger moderation keeps their threads with a much higher signal to noise ratio; even if some folks hate the heavy hand it plays in politics etc. It still ultimately keeps people on topic.

I think this being a technical forum, it would make sense to want to have similar strong moderation to ensure we're getting the right 'technical' signal here. I just feel like this thread doesn't deliver anything of value and instead will just turn people (who are looking for technical discussion) off.

 

[PSman1700]

They are free to pick whatever metric they want. They just have to qualify it and then debate on like terms. If trying to convince someone else of a position different to yours, you need to explain why; for example, total RTX install base is a more significant metric to measure NGX content by that proportion of the PC install base. Instead, what happened here is a counter measure was thrown out like a...countermeasure! No argument was placed behind it - you just fired "24 million RT GPUs" in response to "not many PCs have RTX", neither of which really focuses on the choice of metric nor explains the argument behind the evidence. It's like a court case where people just throw various bagged items and photographs in front of the jury!

Ok yes arguments behind the numbers, i agree

Normally I'd say 'ok'. But I hate seeing more people self delete / get banned etc. So few numbers here. I would rather close the aggravating thread than wait for members to sort it out without mediation. IMO, strong moderation policies is what keeps the culture of a forum. It's a bit like why we have laws and law enforcement, they allow society to conduct and do a great deal of things because they can rely on the law to direct flow, traffic, discourage poor behaviour etc. I think strong moderation does the same thing, which is why imo Neogaf has a harder time than Era. A lack of moderation always leads into a great deal of noise among the little signal that is there. Era with stronger moderation keeps their threads with a much higher signal to noise ratio; even if some folks hate the heavy hand it plays in politics etc. It still ultimately keeps people on topic.

I think this being a technical forum, it would make sense to want to have similar strong moderation to ensure we're getting the right 'technical' signal here. I just feel like this thread doesn't deliver anything of value and instead will just turn people (who are looking for technical discussion) off.

Discussions can be ok, just not that offensiveness and attacking the user. Like if i say RTX3060 performs better than PS5, its to counter that with technical prowess and stay kind instead of getting agitated for no reason.
Someone claims ray tracing isnt it for current generation, i think it is. Just say why you think its not viable or important for this generation, instead of going on NV sponsor conspricary things etc, because thats bound to backfire.

We all have our biases and preferences (im pc), someone else playstation or xbox, it doesnt matter.

But i agree its easy to get fire on your fingertips when discussions are long going (nowhere).
Hence earlier:

Nevermind.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

I think this being a technical forum, it would make sense to want to have similar strong moderation to ensure we're getting the right 'technical' signal here. I just feel like this thread doesn't deliver anything of value and instead will just turn people (who are looking for technical discussion) off.

I think I've largely focused on the actual tech arguments in my posts, albeit they're the ones that get the least interaction so I guess that does largely back up your analysis of this thread as a whole.

I will say that that this being the 'console industry' forum, which isn't one of the most populated sub forums of this site, has a minimal chance of cross-contamination with the more specific forums - the encompassing topic of 'console industry' will invariably mean the conversations are going to be more generalized than nitpicking technicals.

I'm in favour of gutterball threads in general for forums as a method to cordon off wayward discussions from other threads rather than constant warnings/bans, but that doesn't mean it should be a free-for-all either.

 

[PSman1700]

Accept the power of the nomination of being a moderator
mate you will do well in this task

Second that. Canada cant go wrong (j/k)

 

[dobwal]

What else are we going to do until next gen hardware threads start spawning? In comparison to what goes on in those threads, this is calm before the storm. LOL.

But I must admit, it seems like those days are possibly a thing of the past. Consolidation of console technology which is dominated by AMD has taken away some of the spice.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Judging by the comments on his videos, I'd wager against that.

If you judge content by commenters, you better cross DigitalFoundry off your viewing list.

As always, there is a XKCD for that.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

If you judge content by commenters, you better cross DigitalFoundry off your viewing list.

As always, there is a XKCD for that.

To be fair his reply to you wasn't in the context of the content creators but a reply about the people watching the content.

And I'd wager that most people watching it are the more informed who understand the tech and less likely to be deceived by errors ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So, yes, it does make one wonder if most people watching it (and other tech videos) are actually more informed and understand the tech. That XKCD comic really drives home what Flappy Pannus was getting it.

The sad thing is that the vocal commenters who obviously don't understand things are the ones most likely to then go and spread their mistaken impressions of a video to other people since they've already shown their willingness and desire to speak loudly about what they believe they saw to anyone and everyone.

While you can't necessarily cure stupid, you can at least try to reduce how much of it there is with clear, concise and accurate commentary on your videos. Something DF does well and many other channels don't do well. So any sloppiness or inaccuracies then get magnified by the not so intelligent ones or ones that want to believe a certain thing is the what they want to believe it is and then they go and spread what they think they saw to every forum they know of and every person they talk to.

That said, accurate commentary isn't necessarily about getting rid of the stupid but just trying not to make more people stupid. IE - if the content is commented well and accurately, there's less chance a relatively intelligent person will mistake what's being said and then start spreading stupid without necessarily meaning to.

Regards,
SB

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It's a bit like why we have laws and law enforcement, they allow society to conduct and do a great deal of things because they can rely on the law to direct flow, traffic, discourage poor behaviour etc.

If you're managing traffic, sure, but I think the situation is analogous to a different social situation.

It's well known that a messy city with a litter problem encourages people to litter. After all, everyone else is doing it, so everyone develops bad habits. At which point you need someone to come in and clean it up. With a nice, clean city, people are naturally more inclined to keep it that way. Yay! However, if those same people keep littering after the clean-up, clearly they don't want a nice clean city, at which point you're wasting your time trying to clean it up for them.

If we want a strong signal:noise ratio, we can actively remove the noise. But who is 'we' in that case? The moderators? If that's not what the users of B3D want, we shouldn't be changing their conversations for them to make them what we want them to be. And if high signal:noise is what the users of B3D want, they need to be able to manage the signal:noise ratio themselves without leaning on mods. Otherwise you have the scenario of a city of folk claiming they want a clean city as they throw crisp packets and cigarette butts around the place expecting someone to take ownership to clean up their messes for them.

 

[iroboto]

If you're managing traffic, sure, but I think the situation is analogous to a different social situation.

It's well known that a messy city with a litter problem encourages people to litter. After all, everyone else is doing it, so everyone develops bad habits. At which point you need someone to come in and clean it up. With a nice, clean city, people are naturally more inclined to keep it that way. Yay! However, if those same people keep littering after the clean-up, clearly they don't want a nice clean city, at which point you're wasting your time trying to clean it up for them.

If we want a strong signal:noise ratio, we can actively remove the noise. But who is 'we' in that case? The moderators? If that's not what the users of B3D want, we shouldn't be changing their conversations for them to make them what we want them to be. And if high signal:noise is what the users of B3D want, they need to be able to manage the signal:noise ratio themselves without leaning on mods. Otherwise you have the scenario of a city of folk claiming they want a clean city as they throw crisp packets and cigarette butts around the place expecting someone to take ownership to clean up their messes for them.

Right, society doesn’t function because we have enforcement, it functions because the citizens have bought into the laws and generally as a whole follows it. Enforcement is an incredibly expensive resource to have unless your china.

In many ways I agree, but there has to be a moment where mods need to step in. This is a thread that has run its course, largely about something non technical bringing the worse out of our members.

In my mind, we would reorganize the forum into general, software and games, hardware and technical. And each zone would
have progressively harder enforcement to the goals of that particular forum. Technical requiring higher quality posts and it can sort of go down into pure off the cuff as you head downwards

Those who can’t follow posting guidelines just don’t get access to post in the higher enforced forums until they start posting at the quality levels we expect; which is mainly around neutral/positive tone and not attacking platforms/members repeatedly with no end in sight.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

If you judge content by commenters, you better cross DigitalFoundry off your viewing list.

I judge the content by the content, hence my posting in this thread which is analyzing his content. You were saying that NXGamer has little overall influence and even if his page does get a fair amount of views, the content by its nature will be viewed by people more versed in the technical aspects (a generous assumption imo) and thus I assume that means any incorrect conclusions he draws will have minimal impact.

I mean, sure? In the grand scheme of things he doesn't matter, and neither do we. But this is a sub-forum of a console forum on an old website populated by nerds interested in (largely) PC gaming related tech, it's not out of bounds to discuss his pieces here, especially as there's very few people who actually do this - I mean aside from him and DF, who does these long videos with commentary on this stuff?

Like I don't really get comments like the below in the context of this thread and where it is:

Or, if we're aiming for zero tolerance on mistakes, let's apply that to the technical forums. Any post containing a mistake will earn the poster a months vacation? Sounds cool to me.

I mean these high standards of analysis should apply to everybody... right?

That some may find fault with his analysis means that in order to not be hypocritical they must be for a zero-tolerance policy on a web forum with respect to errors is frankly, bizarre. Critique is not cancellation, there's not a online petition to have him excised from youtube.

 

[zed]

'I have not seen anything so bad as youtube comments' They obviously have not read the comments on eg RT.com

 

[Deleted member 11852]

You were saying that NXGamer has little overall influence and even if his page does get a fair amount of views, the content by its nature will be viewed by people more versed in the technical aspects (a generous assumption imo) and thus I assume that means any incorrect conclusions he draws will have minimal impact.

Nope. I was citing page view numbers as a factual input about the assertion that the creator was misinforming "millions" of people. No assumption, just actual numbers provided by the serving platform.

That some may find fault with his analysis means that in order to not be hypocritical they must be for a zero-tolerance policy on a web forum with respect to errors is frankly, bizarre.

I agree, but I was not finding it "unacceptable" that errors creep into content like this.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

I agree, but I was not finding it "unacceptable" that errors creep into content like this.

I'd disagree that they're 'creeping in' (as opposed to, you know, being par for the course - I mean this is largely why this thread exists) but that comment was in the context of 'big content providers' - like IGN who he works with now.

I agree at least that the fear he's 'misinforming millions of people' is getting into hysteria territory, but when you sign up with a major content provider you're naturally going to be subject to more scrutiny. I don't expect much from IGN so I'm not falling onto my fainting couch over this, but people generally do hold major publishers to a higher standard than hobbyist youtubers.

 

[snc]

There is 0 problem with nxgamer content, everybody make mistakes even df, only problem is with histeria whith fanboyism when in their imagination something horrible happen, see this here, see this on neogaf, one advice, is it your fav console or pc its only toy, don’t invest too mich into it

 

[pjbliverpool]

There is 0 problem with nxgamer content, everybody make mistakes even df, only problem is with histeria whith fanboyism when in their imagination something horrible happen, see this here, see this on neogaf, one advice, is it your fav console or pc its only toy, don’t invest too mich into it

I have to wonder if a "PS5 vs PC" video that compared a 2060 running this game at low/medium settings in DLSS Ultra Performance mode to the PS5's Quality mode would have the same welcoming reception.

If said video concluded that the 2060 ran the game significantly faster for an unnoticeable drop in visual quality, would you accept that on equal terms with NXG's conclusions about the PS5 vs 3090?

 

[snc]

I have to wonder if a "PS5 vs PC" video that compared a 2060 running this game at low/medium settings in DLSS Ultra Performance mode to the PS5's Quality mode would have the same welcoming reception.

If said video concluded that the 2060 ran the game significantly faster for an unnoticeable drop in visual quality, would you accept that on equal terms with NXG's conclusions about the PS5 vs 3090?

What was conlusion about 3090 vs ps5 ? All he said that reconstruction technic is so good that4x less pixel internal its not much worse, thats all, and from that people start attacking nxgamer that he said ps5 gpu(5700xt level) is on level 3090, hilarious that its even controversial

 

[Flappy Pannus]

What was conlusion about 3090 vs ps5 ? All he said that reconstruction technic is so good that4x less pixel internal its not much worse, thats all, and from that people start attacking nxgamer that he said ps5 gpu(5700xt level) is on level 3090, hilarious that its even controversial

...what