Value of NXGamer technical investigation videos *spawn

[Phantom88]

I doubt he would accept feedback, or do something to improve. I've pointed this out a few months ago, Durante told him dirrectly he is constantly wrong in numerous areas and basically fabricates graphical features or how they function more than 4 years ago. He didn't accept it then, he doesnt accept it now. He is very active on neogaf, usually to dismiss any criticism of his videos, which happens even there.

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/ignx...formance-review.1623103/page-2#post-264983421

The guy simply adores playstation to such a degree that it goes into every one of its videos, perhaps even subconsciously. Every video of his somehow goes the way of trying to prop ps4 or 5 as best as possible. There's no relevant information to get from his videos imo.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

There's probably no value in this thread but I'll leave it open for those who feel debating the personality of NXG is time well spent.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Looking at the posts on GAF we can see how some people are just angry that despite using a RTX 3090 he didn't turn his video into a Nvidia DLSS advertisement, like we see in other places sometimes.

DLSS does get mentioned in the video, though. It's just that he decided to focus this video on the consoles' temporal reconstruction. Perhaps he could have compared the PS5 to a RTX3060 using DLSS Performance or Balanced for example and that could have been an interesting comparison. Though depending on his results he could have gotten an even worse mob judgment.

Your use of the term "witch hunt" is as sloppy as NXG's use of the term "half resolution." This is a technical forum discussing technical videos.

I disagree. @davis.anthony is complaining about the posts that have personal attacks and baseless accusations of platform warring.
I don't see him nor anyone else complaining about your or other users' posts that point out NXGamer's inaccuracies without resorting to broad and non-specific generalizations. You're right that he misuses and switches terms that he shouldn't. Half resolution should mean half the amount of pixels IMO, or at least it should have the same meaning every time the term is used, which is something he failed to do so.

Nitpicking doesn't mean I don't value his effort, but is it weird that it leaves me with more questions than answers?

I think you were right in pointing out IGN's audience, and for that audience he provides what most of them want to know: is COD Vanguard on console losing a lot in IQ compared to a top-end PC?
His answer is that it doesn't, which is historically expected when looking at games from a newly released console. Had this been a comparison between e.g. PS4/Pro and PC with a RTX2080 Ti of COD Warfare back in 2019 then the expected result would have been very different.
I don't find his conclusion to be controversial, nor should anyone who's followed console release cycles.

He does provide an explanation for not going deeper on his descriptions. IGN gave him 2 days to provide a comparison between high-end PC, PS4, PS4 Pro and PS5. IGN also decided the video couldn't be longer than 15min.
This is also not his full time job, so this probably involved a lot of work overnight. It's far from perfect video but it doesn't stem from a great set of conditions to do so.

NXG only has themselves to blame. If they didn't have such sloppy, inaccurate and amateurish video commentary then perhaps he could get across what he really means if it is indeed something other than what people are peceiving it as. And it's even plausible that some of the inaccuracy is due to the sloppiness of his commentary, but it still comes across as badly done if we're being generous.

Regards,
SB

You need to decide whether you don't like NXGamer because he's sloppy, inaccurate and amateurish or because he has obviously biased opinions.
Or at least how many times these goalposts are going to change.

The guy simply adores playstation to such a degree that it goes into every one of its videos, perhaps even subconsciously. Every video of his somehow goes the way of trying to prop ps4 or 5 as best as possible.

One can only imagine the meltdown here if someone were to write this sentence but switching the subjects for another videogame graphics tech commentator and Nvidia graphics cards.
Thanks for pointing out his posts on GAF though. They were good for shedding some light on the conditions he had for making the video, as well as his motivations. It doesn't look like he chose the platforms either.

 

[Allandor]

The real problem with that last video is, that he compares a PS5 and PC and already in the title of the video, calls it "Performance Review".
Than he is maxing out the settings on PC (instead of getting them at least close to the PS5 settings) and than says "hey look the PS5 runs this game better". This is just a ridicules claim to make. He did not even try to match the settings.

If you try to label yourself on youtube as professional tester you shouldn't make such basic mistakes in a video.
Reasons for this can be:
- he has a bias towards consoles (unprofessional)
- he just didn't know what he is doing (unprofessional)
- he did know what he is doing but just wanted to rush out the video (wouldn't be the first time / unprofessional)

This is not the first video of him that just delivers canonfodder for console/pc-wars. The only thing that is positive about it, is that not many watched that video. We really don't need more of those console-wars fueling videos.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

The real problem with that last video is, that he compares a PS5 and PC and already in the title of the video, calls it "Performance Review".

Performance refers to frametimes and framerate. There's ~2min dedicated to PS5 performance, ~1m30s to PS4 performance and 2min for PS4 Pro performance. PC Performance gets mentioned during the PS5 analysis.

Sure sounds like there's a good bit of performance analysis in the video, as over a third of it is dedicated to performance.

Than he is maxing out the settings on PC (instead of getting them at least close to the PS5 settings) and than says "hey look the PS5 runs this game better". This is just a ridicules claim to make. He did not even try to match the settings.

It would have been a ridiculous claim had he made it.
He did not, as the advantages of the maxed out PC version over the PS5 and PS4/Pro were mentioned several times.

I guess some people are really angry that cutscene framerate goes down on PC and think he should have turned DLSS on to show how performance on the mighty PC with a mighty Nvidia 3090 had to be so much better than a PS5.

If you try to label yourself on youtube as professional tester

NXGamer doesn't need to label himself on youtube as a professional tester when he's already being paid to test games on youtube, which is what professional actually means.

 

[snc]

NXG only has themselves to blame. If they didn't have such sloppy, inaccurate and amateurish video commentary then perhaps he could get across what he really means if it is indeed something other than what people are peceiving it as. And it's even plausible that some of the inaccuracy is due to the sloppiness of his commentary, but it still comes across as badly done if we're being generous.

Regards,
SB

Lmao, will repeat again my posts, he start resolution section telling its half width half height reconsteuction and for all platforms he shows displayed on screen target resolution and internal resolution, I have to say pc fanboys sometimes here are as ridiculous as playstation on neogaf with hate towards Df Alex.

 

[PSman1700]

I doubt he would accept feedback, or do something to improve. I've pointed this out a few months ago, Durante told him dirrectly he is constantly wrong in numerous areas and basically fabricates graphical features or how they function more than 4 years ago. He didn't accept it then, he doesnt accept it now. He is very active on neogaf, usually to dismiss any criticism of his videos, which happens even there.

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/ignx...formance-review.1623103/page-2#post-264983421

The guy simply adores playstation to such a degree that it goes into every one of its videos, perhaps even subconsciously. Every video of his somehow goes the way of trying to prop ps4 or 5 as best as possible. There's no relevant information to get from his videos imo.

The real problem with that last video is, that he compares a PS5 and PC and already in the title of the video, calls it "Performance Review".
Than he is maxing out the settings on PC (instead of getting them at least close to the PS5 settings) and than says "hey look the PS5 runs this game better". This is just a ridicules claim to make. He did not even try to match the settings.

If you try to label yourself on youtube as professional tester you shouldn't make such basic mistakes in a video.
Reasons for this can be:
- he has a bias towards consoles (unprofessional)
- he just didn't know what he is doing (unprofessional)
- he did know what he is doing but just wanted to rush out the video (wouldn't be the first time / unprofessional)

This is not the first video of him that just delivers canonfodder for console/pc-wars. The only thing that is positive about it, is that not many watched that video. We really don't need more of those console-wars fueling videos.

This guy will never better himself, lost case and fits in this lost thread. Just look at the amount of subscribers, he will never become one of the big ones with the PS fanboyism.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

You need to decide whether you don't like NXGamer because he's sloppy, inaccurate and amateurish or because he has obviously biased opinions.
Or at least how many times these goalposts are going to change.

No goalpost shifting. HIs sloppy, inaccurate and amateurish videos makes it appear that he is overly biased. As my 2nd post clarified, it's possible that this is not his intention but you can't actually tell based on how sloppy, inaccurate and amateurish his commentary is. Is he actually biased or is his commentary just so bad that it gives the impression that he's biased? If he starts to offer cohesive and technically accurate commentary in the future, I might actually be able to determine which it is.

Regards,
SB

 

[mr magoo]

The major point taken from this video for me was reconstruction technologies are good enough that we dont actually need native 4k resolution. To achieve good performance on native 4k res we need monster of a gpu many times more powerfull than ps5/xsx. What was laking in the video was information about reconstruction tech in PC world. If we use DLSS/FSR on pc with similar resolution as on ps5 we are suddenly getting 240+FPS on 3080 class gpu. Reconstruction tech is not exclusive to ps5.
If reconstruction tech is so good that we are approaching point of diminishing return why compare ps5 to 3090 native res? I dont know what should i think about this video, because after watching it i could get impression that he is trying to convince me that ps5 offers better performance than 3090 which is not true.
When DF does similar performance comparisons they always try to determine what kind of settings consoles uses AF/AA/RES shadow quality geom quality etc etc etc and then they compare it how does it stack again PCs. Which gives us good idea of what kind of performance are we actually seeing and what can we expect in the future.
This NX vid tells me nothing, ps5 at some res with upscaling performs better than 3090 at 4k... this is completely useless information and if i set my expectation that ps5 will perform better than 3090 in the future i may be very disappointed.

 

[PSman1700]

this is completely useless information and if i set my expectation that ps5 will perform better than 3090 in the future i may be very disappointed.

Imagine thinking that for real, and getting 5700xt/2070 perf. I dont think anyone buying a ps5 cares about it much less so what a random person with a heavy bias with 50k subs had to say.

If anything theyl watch DF, linus tech tips etc.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

The major point taken from this video for me was reconstruction technologies are good enough that we dont actually need native 4k resolution.

Which was the major point of his video, as further evidenced by his own posts on GAF.

If reconstruction tech is so good that we are approaching point of diminishing return why compare ps5 to 3090 native res?

To demonstrate why there's diminishing returns on native 4K res. It had nothing to do with attacking the 3090.
I think he mentioned the 3090 one time, but somehow people are awfully stuck on the 3090 when the point was simply to compare the console versions against a top end PC and tell IGN's audience how much they're losing when going for a machine that doesn't cost $3000.

If reconstruction tech is so good that we are approaching point of diminishing return why compare ps5 to 3090 native res? I dont know what should i think about this video, because after watching it i could get impression that he is trying to convince me that ps5 offers better performance than 3090 which is not true.

It's not true that he's trying to convince people of that...

This NX vid tells me nothing

You mean besides:
1 - PS5 internal resolution, frametime and framerate measurements;
2 - PS4 internal resolution, frametime and framerate measurements;
3 - PS4 Pro internal resolution, frametime and framerate measurements;
4 - Side-by-side comparison between native 4K60 and 1080p60 -> 4K60 with Sledgehammer's temporal reconstruction.

ps5 at some res with upscaling performs better than 3090 at 4k... this is completely useless information and if i set my expectation that ps5 will perform better than 3090 in the future i may be very disappointed.

It would be completely useless information if it was stated. It's not upscaling, nor does he ever state the PS5 is better than 3090 at 4k.
There is one outlier in the cutscenes. For gameplay he very explicitly says that the 3090 provides a better IQ at native 4K60.

 

[Pete]

I doubt he would accept feedback, or do something to improve. I've pointed this out a few months ago, Durante told him dirrectly he is constantly wrong in numerous areas and basically fabricates graphical features or how they function more than 4 years ago. He didn't accept it then, he doesnt accept it now. He is very active on neogaf, usually to dismiss any criticism of his videos, which happens even there.

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/ignx...formance-review.1623103/page-2#post-264983421

NXG, in the very post you linked: “In the end I had a couple of days (in-between my full time job) to cover 4 versions with Destin's help on the PC side. I had to cover all this in a 14-15 minute video. Many things i left out due to focus on content and time etc. This is not a deep dive but a multi-platform comparison that gives as much info for all as possible, including the PC resolution options such as DSR, DLSS and FSR.”

Fair enough. Considering that time pressure, I can only thank him for his useful efforts and hope to find more in-depth Vanguard analysis in another castle.

The guy simply adores playstation to such a degree that it goes into every one of its videos, perhaps even subconsciously. Every video of his somehow goes the way of trying to prop ps4 or 5 as best as possible. There's no relevant information to get from his videos imo.

Not so fair, at least going off this single video.

The real problem with that last video is, that he compares a PS5 and PC and already in the title of the video, calls it "Performance Review".
Than he is maxing out the settings on PC (instead of getting them at least close to the PS5 settings) and than says "hey look the PS5 runs this game better". This is just a ridicules claim to make. He did not even try to match the settings.

To be fair, the title (which he may not even have written) was “Performance Review,” not “Image Quality Analysis” or “Platform Comparison.” Weird that they left out PS4 in the title. Maybe that makes it seem more likely to be a PS5 vs. PC video, which it’s not, really (not like some of Dictator’s on DF).

 

[Johnny Awesome]

I don't think you understood my point DSoup.

These videos are trash. They deserve to be trashed.

 

[mr magoo]

You mean besides:
1 - PS5 internal resolution, frametime and framerate measurements;
2 - PS4 internal resolution, frametime and framerate measurements;
3 - PS4 Pro internal resolution, frametime and framerate measurements;
4 - Side-by-side comparison between native 4K60 and 1080p60 -> 4K60 with Sledgehammer's temporal reconstruction.

my bad you are absolutely right

 

[pjbliverpool]

Not so fair, at least going off this single video.

I'm not sure if you've watched many of his video's but there is definitely a common angle to most of them. This is certainly the worst I've seen in that regard but his video's pretty consistently have a pro Sony angle. Nothing necessarily wrong with having an angle of course (it's journalism 101) as long as the comparisons are fair and add value. But I really can't see how either of those descriptions can be applied in this case (speaking specifically of the 3090 comparison section).

To be fair, the title (which he may not even have written) was “Performance Review,” not “Image Quality Analysis” or “Platform Comparison.” Weird that they left out PS4 in the title. Maybe that makes it seem more likely to be a PS5 vs. PC video

The full title is "PlayStation vs PC Performance Review" and his headline conclusion on performance is that the 3090 runs with 1/3rd the frame rate of the PS5 for "little to no visual difference". That certainly comes across to me as more of a targeted angle than sloppy reporting.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I don't think you understood my point DSoup.

I did, I was just pointing out the the term "witch hunt" is not referring to hunting for witches it is about persecution. Which is not what you meant, I'm sure.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

his headline conclusion on performance is that the 3090 runs with 1/3rd the frame rate of the PS5 for "little to no visual difference".

Stop with the lies and dishonesty.

The performance dips in the PC refer only to cutscenes. Gameplay on his PC was 100% above 60FPS.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

In addition, he states that the PC version doesn't use reconstruction, yet it supports both DLSS and FSR. Why is he not using them while simultaneously praising how the PS5's reconstruction makes the native resolution of the PC unnoticeable?

This was actually kind of shocking to me, as I fully expected when showing that and talking up the fabulous implementation of reconstruction, this would be a segue into how DLSS/FSR on the PC compares. I certainly would have liked to see how DLSS performance mode looks compared to it on the PS5 for example, especially considering they're both upscaling from 1080p - seems like that would be a no-brainer comparison simply on the basis of comparing upscaling technologies regardless of platform. That, as well as FSR to see how well it's doing compared to the game's TAA reconstruction. I mean you've got 2 upscaling methods on the PC that cover all GPU's, that's uh part of judging "PC performance".

Like as I've often said, I'm fully in the reconstruction camp - bring it on, DLSS may be the gold standard but TAAU/Checkerboarding can look great as well, I've been impressed with it on several games on the PS5. It's perfectly valid to note how close it looks to running native 4K and the high cost associated with that and why it doesn't make sense in many cases. However, if you present your video as a performance review of both PS5 and PC, it's a very odd omission. The PC here is basically used as a statement of why native 4K is barely an upgrade and makes little sense, and I agree! But all other potential PC enhancements are just talked about and not shown - the graphics settings differences from the PS4 Pro version are actually explored far more in depth despite the analysis being on the PS5 version, and in the case of DLSS/FSR it's just listed and not even talked about.

Ultimately there's not really any notable analysis of the PC version in here, and again that's fine if the focus is on the PS5 and you want to show how good reconstruction tech can be compared to native - but then perhaps don't call it a PS5 & PC performance review. It's a PS4/PS4 Pro/PS5 performance review, with the PC thrown in to demonstrate the cost of native 4k.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

Looking at the posts on GAF we can see how some people are just angry that despite using a RTX 3090 he didn't turn his video into a Nvidia DLSS advertisement, like we see in other places sometimes.

Care to uh, be specific with examples? Are you talking Nvidia fanboys or actual outlets?

Look, making this statement 2 years, or even a year ago may have been applicable - DLSS was still relatively rare in games and had some problems such as ghosting on objects without motion vectors that I felt were a little glossed over by its enthusiasts at times. It was eye-roll inducing to see forum zealots dismiss any modern console title with 'pfft checkerboarding who cares it's not DLSS', when DLSS's implementation in Control was about the only decent one at that point. It sucked that other forms of upscaling were so rare on the PC.

But its inclusion is extremely common in new games (and being patched in/upgraded with older ones) now. It's detriments lessen with each new release. We're in the second generation of RTX cards that support it - there is not nearly the userbase I'd like (including me with my 1660) that can take advantage of it due to the component shortages yes, but we don't ignore features on the PS5 versions either because they're hard to get a hold of.

Not including it, especially when doing a video where you wax on about how great reconstruction can be and bypassing by far, the most popular method of reconstruction on the PC version you are supposedly reviewing, is not 'turning it into a DLSS advertisement' for pete's sake. It's simply doing the most obvious and reasonable comparison available. He could have done it and still thought the game's native TAAU was very comparable, that could indeed be valid especially if they fucked up the LOD as several other DLSS games do! But damn man, gimme at least one comparison screenshot.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Stop with the lies and dishonesty.

The performance dips in the PC refer only to cutscenes. Gameplay on his PC was 100% above 60FPS.

You keep repeating this point as if you think it holds some special relevance to the discussion and I'm really not sure why you think that. Comparing the performance of 2 systems at their lowest points, whether that point happens to be a real time cut scene or not is a well established practice that's been going on for years. Realtime cutscenes generally make better comparison points precisely because they often push the GPU harder while being 100% repeatable. This is clearly why NX Gamer is using that particular cutscene in his analysis and not as some convoluted (and unspoken) sub analysis of why PC cut scenes don't perform as highly as PC gameplay.

On top of that, your statement above is wrong anyway.

It runs at a native 4k here and often sits above 60fps. It can occasionally dip below in gameplay, but it really holds that more often than not. It dips more heavily in cinematics, this game has no Ray Tracing like Cold War last year. Now visually it is very comparable to the PS5 on the PC's maximum settings, the biggest difference, the only real difference is the fact that it's 4K now which improves image quality.