Unreal Engine 5, [UE5 Developer Availability 2022-04-05]

[Andrew Lauritzen]

except for corner cases such as kitbashing, laziness or lack of expertise, or just the fact that SW RT is used by default

I don't think your characterization of the many, very legitimate cases in which HW RT is not currently an appropriate solution is fair here. I don't know if you're being hyperbolic or just selective but I will state for probably the 10th time in this thread that keeping a good, up-to-date BVH for a complex world at high quality is still an unsolved problem with current hardware and APIs. I'm pretty proud of the Matrix demo/CitySample but I will not pretend that it doesn't have a host of its own tradeoffs and compromises to achieve the goals there that are not going to work for every application.

Furthermore experts can get good results out of both systems. HW RT in some ways may be more forgiving in terms of quality to folks with less expertise, but for the ones who know what they are doing you can make Lumen look good in either mode. HW RT is primarily important when you have smooth, highly reflective surfaces, but even then you need to make some tradeoffs with respect to Nanite geometry.

Anyways I'm as much a fan of triangle RT as anyone but you guys need to stop treating this like it's some black and white issue; it's one of the tools in the toolbox that helps achieve good lighting quality, but it is neither without its own issues, nor a complete solution in and of itself.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Anyways I'm as much a fan of triangle RT as anyone but you guys need to stop treating this like it's some black and white issue; it's one of the tools in the toolbox that helps achieve good lighting quality, but it is neither without its own issues, nor a complete solution in and of itself.

I'm going to put a Mod Preservation Order on this to prevent this thread being derailed by the same repeated arguments. Repeating complaints about use of SWRT will see posts removed and potential thread bans. Invent a solution for complex BVH management if it irks you that much.

 

[Inuhanyou]

We need bigger games to show the true impact of software lumen in ue5. That immortals game will be a good showcase hopefully. It's not as accurate but hopefully good enough in a wider situation to be viable for most third parties using the engine. I mean, that is the hope of epic as well. I wonder if they have been getting feedback on the engine from multiple devs through their dev process

 

[trinibwoy]

We need bigger games to show the true impact of software lumen in ue5. That immortals game will be a good showcase hopefully. It's not as accurate but hopefully good enough in a wider situation to be viable for most third parties using the engine. I mean, that is the hope of epic as well. I wonder if they have been getting feedback on the engine from multiple devs through their dev process

I'm sure that's happening and they probably learned a lot from doing the internal demos too.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

We need bigger games to show the true impact of software lumen in ue5. That immortals game will be a good showcase hopefully. It's not as accurate but hopefully good enough in a wider situation to be viable for most third parties using the engine. I mean, that is the hope of epic as well. I wonder if they have been getting feedback on the engine from multiple devs through their dev process

I'm looking forward to what Ninja Theory and The Coalition and Undead Labs comes up with. They've been working with UE5 since before its public release.

Regards,
SB

 

[Inuhanyou]

I'm looking forward to what Ninja Theory and The Coalition and Undead Labs comes up with. They've been working with UE5 since before its public release.

Regards,
SB

MS studios are particularly primed for the engine as they always have been. Ever since epic themselves worked with ue3 for the launch of 360. But I am also really excited/nervous about FF7R for ps5. They pushed to the limits graphically of what UE4 could do bringing it in line with their visual works high end cgi content.

The PS4 could not keep up with their graphical ambition however and had to be fixed with the jump to PS5 and PC. so I hope that they have moved fully to ue5 to take advantage of some of those new technologies. Considering how recent ue4 games have not scaled particularly well it seems actually required at this point to start getting familiarized with ue5

 

[OlegSH]

Invent a solution for complex BVH management if it irks you that much.

Sorry, but what a silly argument, why don't you ask b3d members to invent a solution for shader stuttering if it irks them that much?

Maybe ask people to invent a solution for dynamic SDFs, because missing occlusion on characters or reflections or GI and so on will not fix themselves?

Hiding head in the sand is not an argument, and it won't help anybody solve any issues.

With this in mind, knowing that my posts will likely be deleted anyway, I promise not to post in this thread anymore. Good luck with your forum politics.

 

[Andrew Lauritzen]

Sorry, but what a silly argument, why don't you ask b3d members to invent a solution for shader stuttering if it irks them that much?

It was obviously a tongue in cheek comment but I think you probably missed the point...

Hiding head in the sand is not an argument, and it won't help anybody solve any issues.

That *is* the point, but in the opposite direction. You can't keep making claims that ignore large, unsolved issues. You've asked why games/techniques don't just use HW RT for everything and have gotten many good reasons why that's true both now and there's still question marks for the future. Yet you seemingly keep ignoring or dismissing them and stating the same premises again. I think it's completely fair for people to ask that you stop making these claims unless you have good answers or proposals for how those roadblocks are to be overcome.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Hiding head in the sand is not an argument, and it won't help anybody solve any issues.

Wrong way round. There's no pont repeating a problem ad nauseum without a solution. The issue of not using HWRT has been identified. Areas for improvement have been identified. What's the value in constantly pointing out what's already known and explained?

I consider that discussion a success! It came to a fair conclusion. Time to move on unless something new comes along like a solution to the identified problems.

 

[Deleted member 2197]

@Shifty Geezer. This discussion has been a complete failure if you don't allow posters to debate the merits of one approach over another.
I also don't see the need for your stupid, sarcastic remark about reinventing BVH. If you want to moderate at least hide your bias and address both posters regardless of WHO they might be.

 

[chris1515]

UE 5 MMORPG release on PC, PS5, Xbox Series

 

[Karamazov]

why all these UE5 games look like they run at 20fps ?

 

[Opeth]

why all these UE5 games look like they run at 20fps ?

Probably because they do

 

[Andrew Lauritzen]

@Shifty Geezer. This discussion has been a complete failure if you don't allow posters to debate the merits of one approach over another.

We're clearly at the point where no new information is being brought up, so the "discussion" was done a while ago, whether you believe it a success or failure. At the very least move it to a new thread please until there's actual new information, preferably related to Unreal or an Unreal game.

 

[Inuhanyou]

UE 5 MMORPG release on PC, PS5, Xbox Series

Looks amazing! These types of games are definitely gonna have to be agressive with optimization for potential 60fps modes.

 

[Shortbread]

UE 5 MMORPG release on PC, PS5, Xbox Series

No doubt the game looks beautiful, but I'm so tired of the obvious Souls/Elden-like gameplay and artistic aesthetics.

 

[cwjs]

@Shifty Geezer. This discussion has been a complete failure if you don't allow posters to debate the merits of one approach over another.

Saying “Nuh-uh” whenever somebody explains the pros and cons isn’t really a debate over merits.

 

[Deleted member 2197]

Saying “Nuh-uh” whenever somebody explains the pros and cons isn’t really a debate over merits.

So why not agree to disagree and leave it at that instead of upping the ante? At this point it's in the past and time to move on.

 

[Inuhanyou]

No doubt the game looks beautiful, but I'm so tired of the obvious Souls/Elden-like gameplay and artistic aesthetics.

It's just how things are. Games get inspiration from other games.

Fighting games still have echoes of street fighter 2 30 plus years later

 

[Scott_Arm]

@Shortbread I think the main issue I have with a lot of genres is that there are so many games that stick to a formula but don't really understand why that formula is fun. They just replicate it, seemingly without thinking about how all of the parts fit together. It's why I'm generally preferring small indie games that focus on executing a small number of mechanics into a loop that plays very well.