Ultra High Mode in UT 2003

[Joe DeFuria]

AFAIK, it doesn't use pixel shaders at all. Only DX7 stlye T&L, plus the use of cube maps.

You get the same visual effects on a GeForce2, as you do on a Radeon 9700. (Only much slower on the GeForce2, of course.)

 

[LeStoffer]

Okay then, this fuss is about whether you have a 256 MB card or not. Vogel goes on the record at 3dcenter about it:

http://www.forum-3dcenter.net/vbull...hreadid=34812&perpage=20&pagenumber=6

Das ist ein Missverstaendnis. Per default ist die hoechste Detailstufe zwar nur auf 256+ MByte Karten eingestellt, man kann dies aber sehr einfach in den Menues selber aendern.

-- Daniel, Epic Games Inc.

Egypt_Tech_Epic.utx z.B. hat 'ne 2048x2048 Textur. Und so wie ich Shane und Perna kenne werden CTF-Magma und DOM-Ruination wohl auch ein paar grosse Texturen benutzen.

-- Daniel, Epic Games Inc.

I don't know whether this means that the NV30 will come with 256 MB as default...

 

[Bigus Dickus]

I was under the impression that it used pixel shaders for limited effects, like water and perhpas some rare lighting, but I could be completely wrong. Since I can't remember where I read that, I probably am.

 

[Brent]

UT2K3 uses 'minimal' pixel and vertex shaders in cards that support it for a slight optimization in terrain rendering with the pixel shaders, it's for speed though, nothing to do with image quality.

It relies heavily on a fixed TCL engine ala DX7 and cubemaps


What I want to know is if it is true about the "UltraHigh" textures not being used or not.

 

[Randell]

well the UT2003 review in PC gamer says they are not being used and will be available in a later patch as current hardware can't deliver.

 

[Brent]

well the UT2003 review in PC gamer says they are not being used and will be available in a later patch as current hardware can't deliver.

i'd still like to get some official verification on that from epic, heh

Vogel?

 

[Mephisto]

Wait a sec, a DX7 engine? Are you sure? It utilizes Pixel Shader AFAIK.

No, UT2003 uses neither Pixel nor Vertex Shader. The engine does not even use Dot3 bump mapping. The only cute thing they use is Cube Environment Mapping.

All in all, UT2K3 is still old 3d technology. No real dynamics, no per pixel lighting, no real shadows, no realism.

 

[Brent]

Wait a sec, a DX7 engine? Are you sure? It utilizes Pixel Shader AFAIK.

No, UT2003 uses neither Pixel nor Vertex Shader. The engine does not even use Dot3 bump mapping. The only cute thing they use is Cube Environment Mapping.

it does use "minimal" vertex and pixel shaders pixel shader 1.1 if available or pixel shader 1.4 if available for Slight terrain rendering optimizations only... no IQ difference between DX7 and DX8 hardware...

 

[Randell]

no realism.

in a setting based on live team to the death combat in a far future involving aliens robots and mini nukes

 

[tEd]

Okay then, this fuss is about whether you have a 256 MB card or not. Vogel goes on the record at 3dcenter about it:

http://www.forum-3dcenter.net/vbull...hreadid=34812&perpage=20&pagenumber=6

Das ist ein Missverstaendnis. Per default ist die hoechste Detailstufe zwar nur auf 256+ MByte Karten eingestellt, man kann dies aber sehr einfach in den Menues selber aendern.

-- Daniel, Epic Games Inc.

Egypt_Tech_Epic.utx z.B. hat 'ne 2048x2048 Textur. Und so wie ich Shane und Perna kenne werden CTF-Magma und DOM-Ruination wohl auch ein paar grosse Texturen benutzen.

-- Daniel, Epic Games Inc.

I don't know whether this means that the NV30 will come with 256 MB as default...

it means that it was a misunderstanding. daniel vogel said that the ultra high textures would be as default only on 256mb+ mem card but anybody can change it manually in the detail setting menu on other cards .

there seems to be only a handful ultra high textures in the game thats probably why the most of the textures are maximum at high detail even if you choose ultra high textures

 

[Brent]

i agree with the fact that it is an older 3d engine really

it's based most on dx7 with a fixed tcl engine...

only using minimal vertex/pixel shaders at best to improve performance a little, no iq difference at all

it uses cubemaps and more polys and high textures, though that is what is in question here, is it really using the ultrahigh textures now? or in a future patch? that's what we need answered...

 

[Humus]

No, UT2003 uses neither Pixel nor Vertex Shader.

From UT2003.ini:

[D3DDrv.D3DRenderDevice]
UseHardwareVS=True
MaxPixelShaderVersion=255

 

[vogel]

http://66.224.5.66/board/showthread.php?s=&postid=1331474697#post1331474697

(Edit: replaced my surprise about PC Games' reporting with a link)

-- Daniel, Epic Games Inc.

What about this?

Ultra High detail mode:
If you look in the diagram options of Unreal Tournament 2003, then the detail degree "high" will only encounter as top. The "Ultra High detail" mode, like it the developers ensure, would be on current cards a call for Choppy-orgies and are not implemented therefore in the game - not yet. According to Epic´s Mark Rein the mode will come with a patch delivered subsequently as soon as Nvidia's new NV30 appears.

Source:
Pc Games (German)
Issue 11/02
http://www.pcgames.de/?menu=0401&show=index

 

[jandar]

so this patch then, is it gonna be for ALL 256MB cards?

Yet only released when the NV30 comes out? Or will it be released if Ati drops in a 256MB Card.

Or if a 3rd party vendor releases a 256MB variety of the 9700 (ala Xelo: http://www.xelo.net/grafik.php ) before the nv30 comes out, is this patch coming out then to make UltraHigh default?

 

[multigl2]

... there is no difference in texture detail between "Higher" and "Highest" that I can discern using a 9700 Pro...

how about difference in performance?

 

[tEd]

so this patch then, is it gonna be for ALL 256MB cards?

Yet only released when the NV30 comes out? Or will it be released if Ati drops in a 256MB Card.

Or if a 3rd party vendor releases a 256MB variety of the 9700 (ala Xelo: http://www.xelo.net/grafik.php ) before the nv30 comes out, is this patch coming out then to make UltraHigh default?

as i understand it , there will be no patch for 256mb cards because you can set it to ultra high yourself without having a 256mb card.

 

[Philibob]

I sold the wife on a new HDD on teh basis I needed the space for home video editing (Which is true)

You mean you SELL you're hard drive to your wife?
I'm soft, if I had a gf/wife I'd give them my old one

 

[Philibob]

Going back to the first post it says a patch is needed. Perhaps there will even be a difference on the R9700 after this.

EDIT - Ignore this post, I've only just read the Rage3D thread

 

[vogel]

You get the same visual effects but we use pixel shaders to collapse multiple terrain passes into one. The performance difference is neglicable so we might as well not use them.

-- Daniel, Epic Games Inc.

AFAIK, it doesn't use pixel shaders at all. Only DX7 stlye T&L, plus the use of cube maps.

You get the same visual effects on a GeForce2, as you do on a Radeon 9700. (Only much slower on the GeForce2, of course.)

 

[KimB]

No, UT2003 uses neither Pixel nor Vertex Shader. The engine does not even use Dot3 bump mapping. The only cute thing they use is Cube Environment Mapping.

All in all, UT2K3 is still old 3d technology. No real dynamics, no per pixel lighting, no real shadows, no realism.

You talk about this like it's a bad thing. The things that you describe we don't have in any other game to date. Graphically, UT2k3 is easily the most advanced we've yet seen (As a side note: bump maps...if they haven't been done well, they might as well not have been done at all...I don't think they've been done well yet...).

If you're trying to say that UT2k3 will pale in comparison to DOOM3, it will in some areas. What you're going to have to realize is that UT2k3's polycounts are most certainly far in excess of what you'll see in DOOM3, though the shadowing and bump mapping will bring DOOM3 ahead in other ways (specifically: cinematic effects).

In the end UT2k3 is one of the first fully-DX7 games we've yet seen. I think that Morrowind is pretty much the only other one to date (perhaps there are a couple more...I don't game as much as I used to...). That is, you really do need a GeForce or later card to hope to have acceptable performance in this game.

No game yet is fully-DX8. That is, no game to date requires a DX8 card to run, and no game will for some time. DOOM3 will still be DX7 (The way I see it, JC and TS looked at the original GeForce's hardware, and took different directions as to how to render a scene on it...JC the more innovative approach, TS the more classical approach).