Yes, I got one. Just finished hooking it up to live.blakjedi said:
UK Stock update (X360)
- Thread starter London Geezer
- Start date
Joe DeFuria said:
1) There would be even more of that if there were more consoles to go around, and it works a lot better when those people can get a reasonable timeframe to expect a chance to purchase one instead of being told "after the holidays" like BlueTsunami reported.
2) I was still suggesting a world-wide launch, just not until the point they were ready to keep the supply flowing.
I do think the idea of a world wide launch was a great idea, but i'm not impressed by this execution of it at all.
kyleb said:
Thats fair. The only reason why i feel its more likely than not is becuase it seems to be MS' strategy to be cheaper than PS3 when it launches - creating the "core SKU' was a way of them further guarenteeing it. While i'm with you thats theres no way to be certain, i think theyve been building a strategy around doing it so i think theres a good chance.
I believe they (MS) have already stated they expect to have price drops every year, so at this time next year the core unit would likely be at least $249, i just cant see Sony taking the massive losses that would come from selling at that price, especially when theyll sell through on initial shipments and dont need to.
Thats what i based the point on, but youre right, no way to be certain theyll get the economies of scale or cost reductions they anticipate to do it. Of course their best case scenario is that they are in a positon where they wont need to compete on price but theres no way i see that happening.
Waiting builds disconent, indefinite waiting even more so; that is simply inherent to the nature of discontent so I'm not sure what you trying to get at here.scooby_dooby said:
Casual games could care less about any numbers, but at a typical console launch they are accustomed to shoping around town a bit to find a console in stock or be told that more will come in on the next truck. But this clearly isn't a typcial console launch as there hasn't been much of anything since launch and people all over the place being told not to expect anything more soon.scooby_dooby said:
If you look around a bit I'm sure you can find some, and the longer people wait the more you will find.scooby_dooby said:
Do you think the consoles they sold already and would sell soon would have dissapeared if they waited? Or the people who bought will buy them wouldn't have held out another few months if MS had set it to launch then? I don't follow your logic here at all.scooby_dooby said:
Joe DeFuria
Legend
kyleb said:
So then, why are you worried about "discontent"?
The question is, will there be more or less "disconent" in Europe, the U.S. and Asia 5 months from now, vs. if the console not launched outside the U.S. for another 6 months?
There simply is no way to know. You can't complain about discontent toward a product that's in short supply...when you compare it to zero supply.
scooby_dooby
Legend
kyleb said:
Really. So then by your definition making the entire world wait another 5 months would have created MUCH more discontent.
Glad we could clear that up.
What I'm trying to get at is: Does the consumer really think this is any different than previous console launches? Is it building any MORE discontent than previous console launches? I would say no, maybe on forums, but not in real life.
Last edited by a moderator:
What is going on here, both of you, we have already gone over everything you both are asking about. Yet Joe, you are still going on about breaking things up into regonal launches when I never suggested anything of the sort; and Sooby, you are arguing 5 months when I never proposed anything more than 90 days. I know I'm not good at spelling by any stretch, but I'm pretty sure everything I tpyed up there was legable for you all to get that out of it, so are you two just reaching for arguments or what?
Got mine today from my local Game.
They're not managing to honour all pre-orders, but the difference was, I actually put down a deposit. Game told me they HAVE to honour those people who did this first, and sure enough, mine was waiting for me at the store, bagged up with my name on it.
I didn't manage to get my hands on a copy of Kameo though. Seems they're in even shorter supply than the xbox360!
They're not managing to honour all pre-orders, but the difference was, I actually put down a deposit. Game told me they HAVE to honour those people who did this first, and sure enough, mine was waiting for me at the store, bagged up with my name on it.
I didn't manage to get my hands on a copy of Kameo though. Seems they're in even shorter supply than the xbox360!
kyleb said:I'm really curious how you think you know what the sucess would have been like if they shipped all of them? Are you the guy from Sliders?
Who knows it could have hurt them .
Thats not the point .
THe point is that this isn't the first launc where there weren't enough units to go around and yet you are running around actingl ike it is .
You say discontention this and discontention that and yet none of this happened to sony when cutting its units in half for american shipments even after making us wait 7 months
kyleb said:
no as that is what happened with the ps2.
THe ps2 was actually the first ebay console and prices got extremely high .
I've shown you the articles talking about how targets got in 2 or 4 systems for the ps2 launch and that they only shipped 500k .
Hell the estimates wer even lower for 90 days than the xbox 360s estimates
Some good free advertising with a sellout. I think if MS restocks the console fast they could really be sitting pretty.
On the other hand, if they can't get at least another 200k into the UK before next year...things won't be looking so good.
For perspective, the UK PSP launch soldout w/~190k units. Thats nearly 4x the amount here. Its been in short supply (ie. soldout everywhere) since then and has sold 600k (+- a few thousand) to date.
On the other hand, if they can't get at least another 200k into the UK before next year...things won't be looking so good.
For perspective, the UK PSP launch soldout w/~190k units. Thats nearly 4x the amount here. Its been in short supply (ie. soldout everywhere) since then and has sold 600k (+- a few thousand) to date.
PS2 was far and away more soughtafter, but more importantly had no real strong competition on the horizon. MS needs to leverage their early launch advantage by selling the units. DC had sold 5M units before the PS2 launch and was half the price, for what its worth.jvd said:
The dc launched in america almost a year after japan and still had low launch numbers .
Yes ms has another console on its heals . But if u think sony is going to be able to launch with millions of units you have another thing comming as they have yet to have a launch with millions of units . The best so far was the usa psp launch with exactly a million units about 6-7 months after the japanese launch.
scooby_dooby
Legend
kyleb said:
3 months 5 months, who cares? The point remains the same. By your definition there would be much more discontent people if they had not launched at all.
I don't see how launch numbers are a big deal, they're estimating it'll be Feb or March until you can get a console on store shelves, that means there's roughly 3 or 4 MILLION consumers who want one right now.
Even if everything went perfectly to their expectations, they still would only be able to 25 or 30% of the consumers who want the product(1million in 2005). IF things go horribly wrong, they may only satiate 15% or 20% of the consumers(500-600k in 2005).
Does it really matter? In 2008 are we gonna look back and say 'boy those extra 500k units they could've sold at launch really screwed the xbox360" somehow I don't think so.
Joe DeFuria
Legend
kyleb said:
Eh? What's going on is called a conversation. You made comments and I responded to them. You have a problem with that?
The question of a regional launch is directly applicable. In terms of absolute numbers, there's nothing to suggest MS has no more or less consoles in total at launch than any other console launch.
The only reason why is seems there are so few, is because they are spread thinner.
Scarcity = desirability?
Calculated shortages or flaw in executions?
Looks like the marketing types also believe scarcity of some products can make people want it that much more.
--------------
Why Shortages of Hot Gifts
Endure as a Christmas Ritual
By NICK WINGFIELD and ROBERT A. GUTH
Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
December 2, 2005; Page B1
Holiday gift shoppers scoured malls last year for Apple Computer Inc.'s iPod mini, and many had a hard time finding the colorful music player. This year, the iPod hunt is on again, only this time it's for the iPod nano and video iPod. Once again, many shoppers are coming up empty-handed.
Like the annual showing of "It's a Wonderful Life" on TV, shortages of hot-selling gadgets and toys have become a commercial rite of the Christmas season. Last year, videogame junkies scrambled to find Nintendo Co.'s DS portable game player. This year, they are chasing Microsoft Corp.'s Xbox 360 game console, which began vanishing from store shelves immediately after the product's release on the Tuesday before Thanksgiving.
Far from hurting, scarcity -- especially in the first days of a product's release -- can amplify its success by generating buzz, marketing experts say.
"For the Xbox, it would have been terrible to have that thing in stock. It would have been a marketing disaster," says Peter Sealey, an adjunct professor at the Haas School of Business, at the University of California, Berkeley, and a former Coca-Cola Co. marketing executive. Consumers expect to have to fight for hot products, he adds. "Shortages create a whole mystique of desirability."
Manufacturers of popular toys and electronics have long been accused of whipping up shopping frenzies by deliberately rationing product supplies. But Apple and Microsoft insist they have done nothing of the kind with the iPod and the Xbox 360.
"We're shipping every one we make, but it's still not meeting demand," says Katie Cotton, an Apple spokeswoman, referring to iPods.
"No one has designed it to be this way," says Molly O'Donnell, a Microsoft spokeswoman, of the Xbox 360 shortages.
Still, some consumers remain skeptical. Karen Connolly of Scituate, Mass., tried to place an advance order for the Xbox 360 two Fridays ago on Circuit City Stores Inc.'s Web site. But her order was too late. "Santa can't always get things either," she had to tell her nine-year-old son.
"I think they create these shortages to create publicity," Ms. Connolly says. "From a marketing standpoint, it's brilliant, but from a parent's standpoint, it's annoying."
Apple, for its part, appears to have some control over where consumers can find iPods this year. Over the Thanksgiving weekend, Piper Jaffray Co. analyst Gene Munster checked on availability of iPods at 11 Circuit City, Best Buy Co. and CompUSA Inc. stores and also at 10 Apple-owned retail outlets. Eight of the Apple stores had all iPod models in stock, Mr. Munster said in a report published earlier this week. In sharp contrast, all 11 of the other retailers were out of at least one color or configuration of the iPod nano or the video iPod, which start at $199 and $299, respectively. Mr. Munster's conclusion: Apple is squirreling away iPod inventory for its own stores and Web site.
Apple's Ms. Cotton declined to comment on how Apple allocates inventory with retailers.
Selling iPods directly to consumers is more profitable for Apple because it doesn't have to share profits with a retail middleman. And the iPod draws people into Apple stores, where they can browse other Apple goodies, Mr. Munster says.
Meanwhile, shortages of iPods at independent stores continue. "The iPod nano is very hot, and we expected supplies to be scarce for a while," says Jim Babb, a spokesman for Circuit City, which is out of stock of various models at stores in the Seattle and suburban-Philadelphia areas but in stock in New York and elsewhere.
Despite the iPod's scattered availability, unit sales of the product at U.S. retailers declined from the second to the third week of November, according to NPD Group Inc., which tracks sales. Stephen Baker, an NPD analyst, says the decline is surprising and very likely the result of spotty supplies, not weak demand.
Shortages make some consumers only more determined to get their hands on an iPod, which is perhaps the closest thing to a fashion icon in the electronics industry. Because Apple has been introducing fresh models several times a year and phasing out old ones, scarcity is now a common condition for iPods. Production of new models is frequently constrained by component shortages during the early days of distribution, analysts say.
"What Apple does is create scarcity by upgrading [the iPod]," says Seth Godin, an entrepreneur and author of several best-selling marketing books. "That's a time-honored tradition."
In the case of the Xbox 360, some retailers have taken advantage of its scarcity by requiring consumers to purchase games and other accessories in order to get the console. Yesterday, Best Buy, of Richfield, Minn., apologized to customers who had to purchase unwanted items and offered a refund on those purchases. "We are aware of instances where Best Buy employee action was inconsistent with company guidelines for promotional activities surrounding the sale of Xbox 360," the company said in a statement.
The Xbox 360 scramble recalls October 2000, when Sony Corp.'s PlayStation 2 was the hard-to-find holiday purchase. Problems making a graphics chip for the game machine forced Sony to halve the number of PS2 consoles it shipped to the U.S. for the holidays. The shortage wasn't planned, but it didn't hurt. Gamers continued to flock to stores into the next year as shortages persisted, and Sony expanded its share of the videogame-console market.
Other companies are adept at the shortage strategy, limiting production at first in order to create greater awareness and sales later on. Nike Inc., for instance, often issues limited editions of its Air Force 1 shoes, which start at about $100 and are quickly snapped up by sneaker junkies. Cellphone makers routinely introduce sleek, feature-packed new models of phones that are often hard to find during their early days on the market. In automobiles, Mr. Sealey cites scarcities of BMW AG's Mini Cooper and Porsche AG's Boxster, both of which boosted consumers' desire for the cars.
In other industries, such as toys, explosive consumer demand can create an unexpected blockbuster, such as Tickle Me Elmo, and catch a company off guard. And shortages are endemic in the videogames business, where new consoles are typically introduced every three to five years.
In many cases, some of the early demand is fueled by speculative buyers, who go to whatever lengths they must to purchase hot items on their release date, in hopes of reselling them on eBay Inc.'s auction site at a big markup over regular retail prices.
At an investor conference yesterday in Scottsdale, Ariz., Meg Whitman, eBay's chief executive, told an audience that users of the site have sold about 40,000 Xbox 360s -- or about 10% of the 400,000 consoles that Microsoft is estimated to have shipped to U.S. retailers. The consoles are selling on eBay for hundreds of dollars more than the $299 to $399 that the system sells for in two basic configurations.
Microsoft says it is making and shipping Xbox 360s as fast as it can. Just before the new system launched, a Microsoft executive said there would be "plenty" of consoles available for the holidays. Ms. O'Donnell says the company is making enough consoles to replenish stores before Christmas, temporary shortages notwithstanding. "We want to sell every Xbox 360 we make as soon as possible," she says. "Demand is outstripping supply."
As for Ms. Connolly, the frustrated Xbox 360 shopper, her brother pedaled his bike at 3 a.m. to a local Circuit City two days before Thanksgiving and managed to get one of the Microsoft consoles. She says her brother called her after nabbing the machine and said: "This is Santa. I got it."
Calculated shortages or flaw in executions?
Looks like the marketing types also believe scarcity of some products can make people want it that much more.
--------------
Why Shortages of Hot Gifts
Endure as a Christmas Ritual
By NICK WINGFIELD and ROBERT A. GUTH
Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
December 2, 2005; Page B1
Holiday gift shoppers scoured malls last year for Apple Computer Inc.'s iPod mini, and many had a hard time finding the colorful music player. This year, the iPod hunt is on again, only this time it's for the iPod nano and video iPod. Once again, many shoppers are coming up empty-handed.
Like the annual showing of "It's a Wonderful Life" on TV, shortages of hot-selling gadgets and toys have become a commercial rite of the Christmas season. Last year, videogame junkies scrambled to find Nintendo Co.'s DS portable game player. This year, they are chasing Microsoft Corp.'s Xbox 360 game console, which began vanishing from store shelves immediately after the product's release on the Tuesday before Thanksgiving.
Far from hurting, scarcity -- especially in the first days of a product's release -- can amplify its success by generating buzz, marketing experts say.
"For the Xbox, it would have been terrible to have that thing in stock. It would have been a marketing disaster," says Peter Sealey, an adjunct professor at the Haas School of Business, at the University of California, Berkeley, and a former Coca-Cola Co. marketing executive. Consumers expect to have to fight for hot products, he adds. "Shortages create a whole mystique of desirability."
Manufacturers of popular toys and electronics have long been accused of whipping up shopping frenzies by deliberately rationing product supplies. But Apple and Microsoft insist they have done nothing of the kind with the iPod and the Xbox 360.
"We're shipping every one we make, but it's still not meeting demand," says Katie Cotton, an Apple spokeswoman, referring to iPods.
"No one has designed it to be this way," says Molly O'Donnell, a Microsoft spokeswoman, of the Xbox 360 shortages.
Still, some consumers remain skeptical. Karen Connolly of Scituate, Mass., tried to place an advance order for the Xbox 360 two Fridays ago on Circuit City Stores Inc.'s Web site. But her order was too late. "Santa can't always get things either," she had to tell her nine-year-old son.
"I think they create these shortages to create publicity," Ms. Connolly says. "From a marketing standpoint, it's brilliant, but from a parent's standpoint, it's annoying."
Apple, for its part, appears to have some control over where consumers can find iPods this year. Over the Thanksgiving weekend, Piper Jaffray Co. analyst Gene Munster checked on availability of iPods at 11 Circuit City, Best Buy Co. and CompUSA Inc. stores and also at 10 Apple-owned retail outlets. Eight of the Apple stores had all iPod models in stock, Mr. Munster said in a report published earlier this week. In sharp contrast, all 11 of the other retailers were out of at least one color or configuration of the iPod nano or the video iPod, which start at $199 and $299, respectively. Mr. Munster's conclusion: Apple is squirreling away iPod inventory for its own stores and Web site.
Apple's Ms. Cotton declined to comment on how Apple allocates inventory with retailers.
Selling iPods directly to consumers is more profitable for Apple because it doesn't have to share profits with a retail middleman. And the iPod draws people into Apple stores, where they can browse other Apple goodies, Mr. Munster says.
Meanwhile, shortages of iPods at independent stores continue. "The iPod nano is very hot, and we expected supplies to be scarce for a while," says Jim Babb, a spokesman for Circuit City, which is out of stock of various models at stores in the Seattle and suburban-Philadelphia areas but in stock in New York and elsewhere.
Despite the iPod's scattered availability, unit sales of the product at U.S. retailers declined from the second to the third week of November, according to NPD Group Inc., which tracks sales. Stephen Baker, an NPD analyst, says the decline is surprising and very likely the result of spotty supplies, not weak demand.
Shortages make some consumers only more determined to get their hands on an iPod, which is perhaps the closest thing to a fashion icon in the electronics industry. Because Apple has been introducing fresh models several times a year and phasing out old ones, scarcity is now a common condition for iPods. Production of new models is frequently constrained by component shortages during the early days of distribution, analysts say.
"What Apple does is create scarcity by upgrading [the iPod]," says Seth Godin, an entrepreneur and author of several best-selling marketing books. "That's a time-honored tradition."
In the case of the Xbox 360, some retailers have taken advantage of its scarcity by requiring consumers to purchase games and other accessories in order to get the console. Yesterday, Best Buy, of Richfield, Minn., apologized to customers who had to purchase unwanted items and offered a refund on those purchases. "We are aware of instances where Best Buy employee action was inconsistent with company guidelines for promotional activities surrounding the sale of Xbox 360," the company said in a statement.
The Xbox 360 scramble recalls October 2000, when Sony Corp.'s PlayStation 2 was the hard-to-find holiday purchase. Problems making a graphics chip for the game machine forced Sony to halve the number of PS2 consoles it shipped to the U.S. for the holidays. The shortage wasn't planned, but it didn't hurt. Gamers continued to flock to stores into the next year as shortages persisted, and Sony expanded its share of the videogame-console market.
Other companies are adept at the shortage strategy, limiting production at first in order to create greater awareness and sales later on. Nike Inc., for instance, often issues limited editions of its Air Force 1 shoes, which start at about $100 and are quickly snapped up by sneaker junkies. Cellphone makers routinely introduce sleek, feature-packed new models of phones that are often hard to find during their early days on the market. In automobiles, Mr. Sealey cites scarcities of BMW AG's Mini Cooper and Porsche AG's Boxster, both of which boosted consumers' desire for the cars.
In other industries, such as toys, explosive consumer demand can create an unexpected blockbuster, such as Tickle Me Elmo, and catch a company off guard. And shortages are endemic in the videogames business, where new consoles are typically introduced every three to five years.
In many cases, some of the early demand is fueled by speculative buyers, who go to whatever lengths they must to purchase hot items on their release date, in hopes of reselling them on eBay Inc.'s auction site at a big markup over regular retail prices.
At an investor conference yesterday in Scottsdale, Ariz., Meg Whitman, eBay's chief executive, told an audience that users of the site have sold about 40,000 Xbox 360s -- or about 10% of the 400,000 consoles that Microsoft is estimated to have shipped to U.S. retailers. The consoles are selling on eBay for hundreds of dollars more than the $299 to $399 that the system sells for in two basic configurations.
Microsoft says it is making and shipping Xbox 360s as fast as it can. Just before the new system launched, a Microsoft executive said there would be "plenty" of consoles available for the holidays. Ms. O'Donnell says the company is making enough consoles to replenish stores before Christmas, temporary shortages notwithstanding. "We want to sell every Xbox 360 we make as soon as possible," she says. "Demand is outstripping supply."
As for Ms. Connolly, the frustrated Xbox 360 shopper, her brother pedaled his bike at 3 a.m. to a local Circuit City two days before Thanksgiving and managed to get one of the Microsoft consoles. She says her brother called her after nabbing the machine and said: "This is Santa. I got it."
scooby_dooby
Legend
"The Xbox 360 scramble recalls October 2000, when Sony Corp.'s PlayStation 2 was the hard-to-find holiday purchase. Problems making a graphics chip for the game machine forced Sony to halve the number of PS2 consoles it shipped to the U.S. for the holidays. The shortage wasn't planned, but it didn't hurt. Gamers continued to flock to stores into the next year as shortages persisted, and Sony expanded its share of the videogame-console market."
What do you make of this Kyle?
What do you make of this Kyle?I just went to Best Buy in Worcester, Massachusetts and one of the Best Buy people laughed at me when I asked if they have any Xbox 360s in stock (Not in a mean way). They both said that they have no idea when new shipments are getting in and that most Best Buys are being kept in the dark as far more systems will be coming in. The Best Buy guy (there was a girl to) said that if he had to guess, more shipments of 360s won't come until near around or after Christmas.
(Not in a mean way). They both said that they have no idea when new shipments are getting in and that most Best Buys are being kept in the dark as far more systems will be coming in. The Best Buy guy (there was a girl to) said that if he had to guess, more shipments of 360s won't come until near around or after Christmas.
