Trinity vs Ivy Bridge

I know that HD 5450 it was two times 40/4, this was just an example that in the past AMD has also been experimenting with different sized SIMD/T widths.
 
Not sure where to post this, but i was just thinking this today. Would Krishna/Witchita also be VLIW4 like Trinity? It would make more sense than being VLIW5 wouldnt it? My earlier speculation was that it would be a Caicos + 2-4 Bobcat cores like they did for Brazos (Cedar + 2 Bobcat cores). But since they were already developing a VLIW4 architecture for Trinity it would make sense to carry it over to Krishna/Witchita as well. Maybe Krishna could have 128 VLIW4 SP's, 8 TMU's and 4 ROP's
 
Erinyes said:
Not sure where to post this, but i was just thinking this today. Would Krishna/Witchita also be VLIW4 like Trinity? It would make more sense than being VLIW5 wouldnt it? My earlier speculation was that it would be a Caicos + 2-4 Bobcat cores like they did for Brazos (Cedar + 2 Bobcat cores). But since they were already developing a VLIW4 architecture for Trinity it would make sense to carry it over to Krishna/Witchita as well. Maybe Krishna could have 128 VLIW4 SP's, 8 TMU's and 4 ROP's
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Hey, news about Trinity from semiaccurate.

Last is the most interesting, a 50% increase in Gigaflops. The cores, going from stars to dragon, probably keeps the core count the same, but Llano gets the overwhelming majority of its flops from the GPU side. The difference in CPU contributed flops is probably a rounding error for this calculation.

That leaves the GPU. If you notice, the GPU is listed as HD7000, aka Graphics Core Next (GCN), aka Southern Islands. That means going from VLIW5 to scalar + VLIW4, whatever the code word for that is. In any case, going from 80 ‘old’ clusters (400 shaders) to 120 ‘new’ (480) clusters is where the majority of the 50% comes from. Throw in an updated memory controller, tighter integration between the sides, and you have not only more speed, but much more exploitable speed.S|A
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"scalar + VLIW4" ?

That's wrong regardless of whether he's talking about GCN or VLIW4.
This does not mesh with any rumors or review sites I've seen discussing the GPU for Trinity, some of which stated AMD told them it was VLIW4.
 
I wonder if we will get a die shot :LOL:

This does not mesh with any rumors or review sites I've seen discussing the GPU for Trinity, some of which stated AMD told them it was VLIW4.
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what do we believe the slide(could be fake) or the rumors :p
 
3dilettante said:
"scalar + VLIW4" ?

That's wrong regardless of whether he's talking about GCN or VLIW4.
This does not mesh with any rumors or review sites I've seen discussing the GPU for Trinity, some of which stated AMD told them it was VLIW4.
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GCN != scalar + VLIW4.
120 new shaders is not divisible by 64.
GCN barely taped out when they showed a laptop.

The only useful bit is that Trinity will launch right next to IB, possibly even earlier.
 
Being HD7000 series in no way implies it must be GCN. Low end Southern Island parts will likely be VLIW-4. The fact that it is "7000" series was pretty much a given from a marketing point, whether it uses all new architecture or not is entirely separate from that fact.
 
Good point. I think all that slide means that the GPU in trinity will be marketed as 7xxx class, just like LLano has 6xxx gpu even though it is an evergreen derivative.
 
rpg.314 said:
Good point. I think all that slide means that the GPU in trinity will be marketed as 7xxx class, just like LLano has 6xxx gpu even though it is an evergreen derivative.
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You could even say 6xxx encompasses four architectures, or at least architecture revisions:

- Evergreen (6750/6770, renamed 57x0)
- Evergreen + UVD3 (Llano)
- Northern Islands VLIW5 / Enhanced Evergreen (Barts, Turks, Caicos)
- 'True' Northern Islands - VLIW4 (Cayman)


So yeah, I agree that HD 7000 for Trinity is just for marketing, APUs will always lag behind discrete GPUs by at least one generation.
 
TKK said:
You could even say 6xxx encompasses four architectures, or at least architecture revisions:

...

- Evergreen + UVD3 (Llano)
- Northern Islands VLIW5 / Enhanced Evergreen (Barts, Turks, Caicos)
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Any basis for the claim that these are different? (when not counting the memory architecture which is of course different because there is also cache-coherent CPU in the same chip)

So yeah, I agree that HD 7000 for Trinity is just for marketing, APUs will always lag behind discrete GPUs by at least one generation.
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We don't even know for sure how many of the GPU's that ATI is going to release in the coming winter are "GCN" or just cayman's VLIW4 architecture manufactured with 28nm.

And I would not say "always lag", Llano had their first GPU manufactured with "CPU process", and Trinity will be only second, it also takes time to "develop the development process" so that they can quickly integrate their new GPU's into APU's.

(bobcat-based chips use "gpu processes")
 
hkultala said:
We don't even know for sure how many of the GPU's that ATI is going to release in the coming winter are "GCN" or just cayman's VLIW4 architecture manufactured with 28nm.
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I'd guess 0 of 0. ATI isn't going to release GPUs anymore, AMD is. :) *SCNR*
 
hkultala said:
Any basis for the claim that these are different? (when not counting the memory architecture which is of course different because there is also cache-coherent CPU in the same chip)
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Granted, I don't know for sure.

That being said, my reasoning goes like this:
To keep the development as simple and short as possible, it would be easiest to take an existing GPU design and fuse it with the CPU. The only 5-SIMD design AMD made and probably had ready when Llano was designed was Redwood, and I assume Llano's GPU is based on it.
The UVD engine is probably easy to upgrade since it's a bit separated (layout-wise) from the rest of the GPU. But Barts & Co. had their TMUs and Tesselation unit updated as well.
I'm not saying it's impossible that AMD ported those over to Llano, but considering the market & performance segment Llano is targeting, I think it's at least possible that they didn't bother. They had their hands full enough with solving more pressing issues like yields and power consumption, I think.

But you're right, it might me architecturally identical to NI-VLIW5 GPUs.


hkultala said:
And I would not say "always lag", Llano had their first GPU manufactured with "CPU process", and Trinity will be only second, it also takes time to "develop the development process" so that they can quickly integrate their new GPU's into APU's.
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Fair enough, they may get there some time in the future. The time gap will certainly shrink, but I think it's easier (and less risky) to integrate a finished design than a work-in-progress design, that's why I wouldn't expect, let's say, Trinity successor with GCNv2 two months after discrete GCNv2. Unless they're made on the same manufacturing process, then it might be a somewhat different matter.
 
Anand said:
Intel's Mooly Eden just disclosed Ivy Bridge's transistor count to a captive audience at IDF this morning: 1.48 billion transistors. That's presumably for the quad-core version compared to 995M in Sandy Bridge. That's nearly a 50% increase in transistor count. Don't pay attention to the die shot above, that's not an accurate representation of Ivy Bridge. Intel is holding off on showing the die until closer to launch. Why? Likely to avoid early disclosure of how much of the die is dedicated to the GPU. As you'll see in our Ivy Bridge architecture piece later today, the lion's share of those transistors are improvements in the GPU.
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Damn! Intel is serious on the IGP front here.
 
wow an extra half a billion transistors for the GPU alone is pretty serious indeed. We may finally start seeing good intergrated PC graphics across the board.
 
Let's hope the driver support will be on the same level as the HW investment. Carmack for sure will be pleased this time. :p
 
pjbliverpool said:
wow an extra half a billion transistors for the GPU alone is pretty serious indeed. We may finally start seeing good intergrated PC graphics across the board.
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You seriously suggest that only GPU is upgraded in IB compared to SB?
 
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