Trident: "XP4 T3 will achieve 70% of Radeon 9700 perf&q

[mboeller]

I am still wondering about their "smart-tile (tm)". Is it :

a) Simple tile based memory layout, so render a triangle in little rectangular areas rather than triangle scan line per scan line.
b) PowerVR front-end system : grab the whole scene, sort the geometry into screen space tile areas and then render these tiles in an immediate mode way without advanced early Z. If its this system one has to wonder about the efficiency of their sorting, do they have hardware, how and where do they store the scene...
c) something else

My personal hunch is that its just (a) dusted off and hyped up...

K-

You didn't read the interview. Shame on You
They clearly say that it's point a); so its only marketing talk.

 

[Kristof]

Now, now... I did read it but was not entirly sure :

GD: Your technology uses a form of Tile-based rendering. If this technology is so effective why do you think that Kyro went the way of the do-do bird?

Le: Our 3D graphics engine is actually based on immediate-mode rendering, but with a tile-based rasterization engine. We do not implement the tile-based rendering as used in Kyro. The key advantage of tiling in rasterization is much better memory bandwidth utilization as compared to scan-line rasterization. Tiling in rasterization improves memory bandwidth efficiency from 35 to 90 percent.

I can just not imagine how marketing can take a feature that Voodoo1 already had and turn it into the worlds greatest bandwidth saver

K-

 

[demalion]

1024x768x32 with no aniso and no AA with pixel and vertex shader support in hardware is by no means ugly, and not at all "stupid".

It absolutely is, if you're attempting to say it's as good as a GeForce4 Ti 4400, or 70% as good as the Radeon 9700.

I own a GeForce4 Ti 4200, and almost never run without aniso or FSAA. If the "average" user actually believes that Tridents' claims are correct (assuming their aniso/FSAA isn't up to par...which is probably a very good assumption given the very small transistor count), then they have been fooled.

That said, I have been saying for some time that I'd like to see a low-end DX8 card. If Trident can indeed produce stable and compatible drivers for these video cards, then they will be good for the gaming market as a whole.

I just have problems with the claims of performance close to their competitors' high-end products if they cannot produce the FSAA/aniso performance as well.

What are you talking about? I'm not talking about the PR spin Trident is offering, I'm talking about what the card could mean to consumers...hence the rest of the post that quote went with. The rest of your text doesn't address my post, just this quote and your own priorities. And you sure like to throw around the term "stupid" freely...do you really hold others who don't have your same priorities or demands in 3D graphics output in such contempt? In any case, that seems largely irrelevant to the 3d card marketplace.

Please read it again...if you don't get anything more out of it than that quote and this reply, let us save the spam and end the cycle of replies here. As a matter of fact, we can end the replies between us here anyways, as plenty of others seem to be saying the same thing and you could pick any one.

 

[mboeller]

Now, now... I did read it but was not entirly sure :

GD: Your technology uses a form of Tile-based rendering. If this technology is so effective why do you think that Kyro went the way of the do-do bird?

Le: Our 3D graphics engine is actually based on immediate-mode rendering, but with a tile-based rasterization engine. We do not implement the tile-based rendering as used in Kyro. The key advantage of tiling in rasterization is much better memory bandwidth utilization as compared to scan-line rasterization. Tiling in rasterization improves memory bandwidth efficiency from 35 to 90 percent.

I can just not imagine how marketing can take a feature that Voodoo1 already had and turn it into the worlds greatest bandwidth saver

K-

Maybe the Trident card's didn't had it until now? This could explain some of the really bad performance this cards have.

And; Marketing is free to do what they want. Reality has no force over them, quite the contrary (bad) marketing defines what they think reality should be.

 

[Pete]

Pardon me if I've missed the obvious during my long stay on these boards, but do current GPUs do SIMD? If not, does it sound like the XP4 will? Either way, is it a worthwhile advantage for 3D games?

Oh and what the heck is a kekeke?

An anime reference--it's a Japanese laugh/giggle, I think.

 

[Kristof]

Pardon me if I've missed the obvious during my long stay on these boards, but do current GPUs do SIMD? If not, does it sound like the XP4 will? Either way, is it a worthwhile advantage for 3D games?

Yes, Vertex shaders are very obviously SIMD and the multiple pipelines of the rasterizer can also largely be seen as SIMD (4 pipes working on the same polygon, just different pixels hence slightly different data). The PS itself is also SIMD, working on 3/4 colour components using the same instruction.

K-

 

[RussSchultz]

Pardon me if I've missed the obvious during my long stay on these boards, but do current GPUs do SIMD? If not, does it sound like the XP4 will? Either way, is it a worthwhile advantage for 3D games?

Oh and what the heck is a kekeke?

An anime reference--it's a Japanese laugh/giggle, I think.

Wow. I had no idea the Dukes of Hazzard were into anime.

 

[Tahir2]

Dukes of Hazzard in Hentai Shocker!

 

[Pete]

Ah set 'em up an' Russ knocks 'em down. Yee-haw!

 

[BoddoZerg]

kekeke.

 

[Saem]

Dukes of Hazzard in Hentai Shocker!

With a good peppering of tentacles.

All right, I'm going to take a shower, I feel dirty.

 

[Kristof]

Can we get back to the 3D Technology and Hardware related subject 8)

 

[Tahir2]

Yep sure thing Kristof.

The Trident XP4 is a brilliant accomplishment. DX8.1 in hardware, support for VS 1.0 and PS 1.4 - possibly beyond VS 1.0 for only 30 million transistors.

Lets not take that away from Trident even if they are bending the truth a little with implying that DX9.0 is, ahem, supported via hardware.

If this is all true and the XP4 goes on sale soon it will surely be snapped up by OEM's and give the Radeon 9000 Pro and GF4 Ti4200 a run for its money in the market segment Trident wish to conquer.

Just wish it was possible to do it without the usual FUD.

Is that OK Kristof? 8)

PS I am sure that the Trident chip could play those excellent anime movies with hardware iDCT etc on TV Out.. kekekekke

Edit: I wish I could spell

 

[Ante P]

Actually isn't that VS 1.1 rather than 1.0?

Anyways, I hope they bring PS 1.4 support instead of just 1.3.
If so we have three chips supporting it.

 

[Tahir2]

I did a search from Google for the DX8.1 spec and was referred back to Beyond3d.com ... anyways Ante P you are probably right there

And it doesnt matter if there are 3 cards out there with support to PS 1.4 (which IMHO they NEED to be fully compliant with DX8.1)... PS 2.0 is the next big thing and the majority of the high end cards out there right now is still PS 1.3 or less.

 

[Geeforcer]

The Trident XP4 is a brilliant accomplishment. DX8.1 in hardware, support for VS 1.0 and PS 1.4 - possibly beyond VS 1.0 for only 30 million transistors.

Don't you think its a wee bit premature to make such conclusions, considering that we have no image quality or performance data, or even track record to rely on?

 

[Tahir2]

I never commented on performance, IQ or 'data.'

It is an amazing achievement to have a DX8.1 GPU with 30 million transistors ready for mass market. Even the Radeon 9000 Pro has 40 million odd transistors.

 

[Ante P]

I did a search from Google for the DX8.1 spec and was referred back to Beyond3d.com ... anyways Ante P you are probably right there

And it doesnt matter if there are 3 cards out there with support to PS 1.4 (which IMHO they NEED to be fully compliant with DX8.1)... PS 2.0 is the next big thing and the majority of the high end cards out there right now is still PS 1.3 or less.

how do you figure?
there's three cards (GF4Ti, Xabre and Parhelia) that "only" support 1.3, three cards (Radeon 8500, 9000 and XP4) which support 1.4 and only one card (GF3) with the mere 1.1 support
and the three cards that support 1.4 are actually on the low budget side of things so support for them would be pretty logical now

I mean suddenly programming for 1.4 support doesn't seem like a far fetched novelty anymore

 

[Bambers]

Most average gamers can't infact see the difference with and without aniso and FSAA. Most people with gf3/4s run without aniso or aa.

The reason they don't use TNT2s is because they don't have the raw power, many still have gf2mxs though.

I've just come back from the i12 event in the UK and out of all the screens I saw, mine was the only one using aniso. Now this wasnt a particularly thorough survey (I was there to play games, get drunk and meet people not to check for aniso ) but it is easy to spot when you walk past a modded case with a window clearly showing a gf4 ti4400/4600 inside and the user is playing q3/CS in ~800x600 no AA or af.

 

[Randell]

hehe bambers what games did you play? I know several people who went to i12