Toshiba, Sony close to 65nm sample production

[cybamerc]

Thanks to Rhindle at GA.

New process technology vital for Sony's planned consumer electronics processor

By Martyn Williams, IDG News Service December 10, 2003

TOKYO - Toshiba Corp. and Sony Corp. are close to beginning trial production of semiconductor chips using a manufacturing process more advanced than any in commercial use today, they said Thursday.

The technology is capable of making chips with features as small as 65 nanometers and its development is vital for Sony to produce its planned Cell microprocessor. The chip, which it is developing with Toshiba and IBM Corp., is expected to form the heart of its future PlayStation 3 games console and other digital consumer electronics products, but current production technologies are not yet sufficiently advanced to manufacture it in large quantities.

A nanometer is one-billionth of a meter and chip production technology is typically described by the smallest resolution possible. As the resolution gets finer, more components can be crammed onto a chip's surface and that leads to more powerful chips that consume less power.

Toshiba's trial production of sample chips using the 65-nanometer technology will begin in March 2004, said Junichi Nagaki, a spokesman for Toshiba in Tokyo. At that time, the company will turn out system LSI (large scale integrated circuit) chips on a trial line at its Yokohama, Japan, factory and supply them to its customers for evaluation purposes, said the spokesman.

Commercial production of chips using the technology is not expected to begin until the first half of Toshiba's 2005 fiscal year, which is the period from April to September 2005, he said.

The base for that production is planned to be a new factory currently under construction at Toshiba's plant in Oita prefecture, Japan. Construction is scheduled to end in January 2004 and initial production on a 90-nanometer process is to begin in the middle of 2004 after which it will be upgraded to handle the 65-nanometer process. The plant will process 300-millimeter diameter wafers.

"This is the fundamental technology for 65-nanometer chips," said Shinji Obana, a spokesman for Sony in Tokyo. He said the two companies have already succeeded in producing a sample system LSI that also contains 32M bits of embedded memory. "We tested the device and it works correctly."

The system LSI chips, while falling short of a prototype of the Cell processor, amount to one of the first steps that Sony needs to take towards eventual mass production of the chip, he said.

The trial production plans comes as many semiconductor companies are still in the midst of upgrading from 130-nanometer generation technology to the latest 90-nanometer technology. In early November NEC Electronics Corp. said it plans to invest ¥60 billion (US$545 million) on building a 90-nanometer line at it factory in Yamagata prefecture to begin production in late 2004.

I hope this put to rest those mid-2004 theories that certain ppl have uttered on this forum.

 

[McFly]

"This is the fundamental technology for 65-nanometer chips," said Shinji Obana, a spokesman for Sony in Tokyo. He said the two companies have already succeeded in producing a sample system LSI that also contains 32M bits of embedded memory. "We tested the device and it works correctly."

That makes me very positive that they are ready for a worldwide late 2005 launch date.

Fredi

 

[cybamerc]

World wide? Surely you jest?

 

[Deepak]

may interest a few here.....

Link

Advanced Micro Devices researchers are sharing the company's plans for its next-generation chips. AMD plans to build processors using the next-generation 45-nanometer process technology, a technology that the company hopes to have in production by as early as 2007.

 

[London Geezer]

I hope this put to rest those mid-2004 theories that certain ppl have uttered on this forum.

Good to see things are goinf fine... However, what mid-2004 theories? Haven't followed the whole scene for a while, care to do a little recap? please...

 

[cybamerc]

london-boy:

> However, what mid-2004 theories?

That Toshiba would start mass producing Cell in the middle of next year.

 

[London Geezer]

london-boy:

> However, what mid-2004 theories?

That Toshiba would start mass producing Cell in the middle of next year.

I said LITTLE recap, not TINY....

So, what is the yield rate on this sample chip now? How many have they produced?

 

[notAFanB]

I hope this put to rest those mid-2004 theories that certain ppl have uttered on this forum.

Good to see things are goinf fine... However, what mid-2004 theories? Haven't followed the whole scene for a while, care to do a little recap? please...

he is doubtlessly refering to the mid-to-late 2004 mass production speculation on this board. which is what is required for a 2005 launch to be remotely possible.

 

[cybamerc]

london-boy:

> So, what is the yield rate on this sample chip now? How many have they produced?

They have produced one sample version of what could be the EE and GS from the PS2 and no Cells.

 

[Fafalada]

He is doubtlessly refering to the mid-to-late 2004 mass production speculation on this board. which is what is required for a 2005 launch to be remotely possible.

2005 ends in december last I checked(I mean, unless B3D forum has decreed its own fiscal calendar which I am not aware of), and PS2 only had around 6months since start of massproduction (september 99) to launch (march 2000).
Using the usual logic of the forum - this would surely mean they don't need to start mass production until mid 2005, in order to still meet 2005 launch window.

 

[London Geezer]

2005 ends in december last I checked

Are you sure about that? U know, some people would be ready to argue that!!

So, it only takes 6 months to go from mass-prod to launch? Then i guess we can safely say PS3 will be out anytime BEFORE mid-2006... Although that only takes into accoutn the chpset, Sony might want to wait pending other features (BlueRay implementation/standardisation/whateverisation comes to mind for a starter)

 

[cybamerc]

Fafalada:

> this would surely mean they don't need to start mass production until
> mid 2005, in order to still meet 2005 launch window.

Certainly. But there's not much room for error.

 

[Paul]

That Toshiba would start mass producing Cell in the middle of next year.

Actually it was near the end of 2004, a window to late summer to October.

I'm fairly certain that when they say mass production could start April 05 they mean production with good yields and not risk production. Risk production could begin late 2004...

A previous Toshiba Oita PR stated that they would begin mass production Late summer to October.

Anyway, this confirms my guess that PS3 will have a worldwide launch of Fall 2005. Both the Toshiba and Sony 65 nm plants will be mass producing Broadband Engine and related 65 nm IC for upwards of 6 months prior to launch. On 300mm wafers I might add.

 

[cybamerc]

Paul

> Actually it was near the end of 2004, a window to late summer to October.

You used to claim early 2004.

> Anyway, this confirms my guess that PS3 will have a worldwide launch
> of Fall 2005.

Hardly.

 

[London Geezer]

heh... Doesn't confirm anything really... It's not like PS3 is Cell. There are many other things to sort out, to balance, to manufacture, to wait-till-price-drops...

Until we hear from Mr/Mrs Sony, we should still HOPE it comes out before 2007 (That is, anytime in 2006, maybe end of 2005 if we're lucky).

In the end, i would prefer a delayed-but-perfect-system than a rushed-but-flawed one...

 

[Paul]

You used to claim early 2004.

I'm sure.

Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2003

Mass production will start late summer 2004 from that plant.

Hardly.

Yup concidering the fact that you will have 2 plants mass producing BE on 300mm wafers for 6 months or so. PS2's EE was in mass production for around 6 months prior to launch, and this was done in a single joint fab I might add, compared to BE's 2 which will be mass producing around the same time, on bigger 300mm wafers.

Edit: Should have added, this confirms my guess, guess being my opinion. This news reaffirms my opinion on the matter.

 

[London Geezer]

Doesn't Sony own other fabs around the world that could (and probably will) be upgraded to the new .65 technology?

I heard they had some in Europe, around Ucraine or something... or was that Nvidia? :?

 

[Deadmeat]

...

a sample system LSI that also contains 32M bits of embedded memory.

So they fabbed sample PSX2OAC on 65 nm. Any word on die size, power consumption, and clockspeed????

 

[cthellis42]

PS2, of course, not remotely having a "worldwide" launch, nor having heavy numbers to start off with in their Japanese and US launches. (I don't recall timing/availability of the European launch, but I think it was much better than the other regions.) If they DID launch worldwide in Q4 2004 it would likely be as an absolute trickly everywhere, and annoy lots of customers who think they're restricting supply to fuel demand and pump prices. I rather estimate if they launch ANYWHERE in 2005 it would be Japan only, and a US launch somewhat afterwards when Sony's own plant can come in to help.

They could indeed inflate initial numbers more for a better/wider/earlier launch with risk production, but offhand I don't think they should be "rushing" any part of it--certainly not in any ways that could affect the technical quality of the machine. (Since that is always in rather great flux among the community.) While a worldwide, "big enough" launch would be NICE, I'd rather see them launch solidly and confidently with similar timeframes to the PS2. Launching only in Japan at first certainly won't stop the US or European press from feeding on every scrap of information they can find and showing every screenshot possible, nor will it stop the anticipation from reaching fever pitch.

 

[zidane1strife]

Hopefully they wont launch in 2006, if they do, at least I hope the big N or MS releases something in 2005...

I'd still like a 2004-2005Big N launch, followed by a 2005-2006 sony launch, followed by a 2006-2007 MS launch... that would be ideal...