Tomb Raider: Underworld

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/931/931818p1.html

IGN UK Review - 8.5

I'm still undecided about getting this and if I do, for what platform. For one, it looks pretty good and runs amazing on my PC but I can't help but notice that the console versions look a bit better (looks like a whole bunch of effects/shaders are missing from the 360 version - haven't seen the PS3 yet).
 
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/931/931818p1.html

IGN UK Review - 8.5

I'm still undecided about getting this and if I do, for what platform. For one, it looks pretty good and runs amazing on my PC but I can't help but notice that the console versions look a bit better (looks like a whole bunch of effects/shaders are missing from the 360 version - haven't seen the PS3 yet).

Some effects are apparently missing, but the only one I could find was the motion blur on Lara. Everything else looked identical to me.

The other major difference though was image quality, I found the 360 demo to be quite aliased where as on my PC at least, its a smooth as a CG movie. I'll take that over some very subtle motion blur any day.

Perhaps SMM can let us know what other effects the PC's missing.
 
Yeah, I just read through the thread and notice there was some discussion about it. The most obvious thing, as you said, is the object based motion blur on Lara. Also, the lighting to me looked better on the 360 version that I played (demo). In comparison, the PC version's lighting looked a bit flat and base (something like SSAO vs none maybe?).
 
Yeah, I just read through the thread and notice there was some discussion about it. The most obvious thing, as you said, is the object based motion blur on Lara. Also, the lighting to me looked better on the 360 version that I played (demo). In comparison, the PC version's lighting looked a bit flat and base (something like SSAO vs none maybe?).

I've heard others mention that but I honestly can't see a difference. The colours are more muted in the console version but thats more of a calibration issue than anything else. I couldn't spot any other differences.
 
The other major difference though was image quality, I found the 360 demo to be quite aliased where as on my PC at least, its a smooth as a CG movie. I'll take that over some very subtle motion blur any day.

Very true. And even if there are some differences, the PC version did feel loads better on my setup running at 1680x1050 with 4xAA 16AF at 60fps. Not that the 360 felt sluggish, it just looked sharper on my PC.

Perhaps SMM can let us know what other effects the PC's missing.

If someone does know the exact differences, I'd be very interested to hear.
 
Congrats SMM on a great game! I'm playing right now!
The graphics are excellent! My only problem is that in a few areas I get 5 fps with AA enabled (when I turn the camera to a specific spot) and sometimes the lightmaps are disapearing...
The animations are very smooth and the performance seems a bit better than from the demo.
Off to play some more! 'Till now I'm very impressed! The sea level is amazing!
 
My only problem is that in a few areas I get 5 fps with AA enabled (when I turn the camera to a specific spot)

On what setup / settings? If i'm going to be effected by that I would like to know ;)

I'm fairly decided this is going onto my buy list which at the moment with this insane amount of great games available, is pretty impressive.
 
Among the differences I'm aware of, there's things like the online features, mainly because Windows Live is still weak and is light years behind Xbox Live. Then there's the things that couldn't be done within the instruction limit of DX9 spec when included with all the other things that we have to do for every pixel anyway. The two big ones of which I'm directly aware are the per-instance motion-blur, and a few specific per-instance illumination models like the anisotropic surface and transmissive lighting components on Lara's hair (which I'm aware of only because I wrote it), and so on. This would probably not have been necessary if not for the fact that it occurs inside a loop that covers necessarily multiple dynamic lights, or if we'd dropped the irradiance volume.

There are probably others, but I have no clue what all of them would be.
 
Among the differences I'm aware of, there's things like the online features, mainly because Windows Live is still weak and is light years behind Xbox Live. Then there's the things that couldn't be done within the instruction limit of DX9 spec when included with all the other things that we have to do for every pixel anyway. The two big ones of which I'm directly aware are the per-instance motion-blur, and a few specific per-instance illumination models like the anisotropic surface and transmissive lighting components on Lara's hair (which I'm aware of only because I wrote it), and so on. This would probably not have been necessary if not for the fact that it occurs inside a loop that covers necessarily multiple dynamic lights, or if we'd dropped the irradiance volume.

There are probably others, but I have no clue what all of them would be.

Cheers mate, appreciate the response. Either way its probably still on my list even in this hugely competitive time. You did a great job with the graphics and as always the gampleay is... well... Tombraider!

Luckily, at least IMO, the better image quality more than makes upfor the missing effects.

One question though, sorry about the dumb ass question but what does this mean in comparison to regular anisotropic filtering on the PC?: "and a few specific per-instance illumination models like the anisotropic surface"???
 
Your clarifications are much appreciated, SMM. :)

Are you at liberty to discuss the motion blur technique? (or perhaps a less dangerous comparison to Lost Planet's velocity maps?)
 
On what setup / settings? If i'm going to be effected by that I would like to know ;)

I'm fairly decided this is going onto my buy list which at the moment with this insane amount of great games available, is pretty impressive.

On a core 2 quad@8200, 4 gigs of ram (ddr2) and a 9800 gx2.
Everything highest setting, 8xAF, 2xAA, 1920x1200.
My problem with AA is mostly gone at 2xAA (everything above that brings the problem back, but it's not hitting that hard) due to the new drivers nvidia released.

I unfortunately have more graphic abnormalities besides the disapearing lighmaps... I cannot discribe the problem exactly. It seems that depending on the light conditions, the textures on lara are affected differently on her body and differently on her face. It happened mostly on the ship (by the way, one of the coolest parts of the game so far).

I just reached the demo level, and up till now, dispite the problems that are unfortunatelly distracting, I think that this is the best TR game I have played since TR1 :).

Edit:
I did a clean install on Vista this weekend (I should have done that a long time ago) and the game runs perfectly with no graphic abnormalities whatsoever. I uped the AA to 4x and the game is gorgeous. Laras model must be the best in game 3d model ever made.
I don't know how to check my fps, but it runs very smoothly, so I'm guessing constantly higher than 30 fps.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Impossible to complete the PS3 version? Bug?

SMM:

I'm seriously annoyed at the moment. In the level "Jan Mayen Island", in the room of the last hammer (I assume you know which one) - the one with the short cut scene. How can you climb up in the room to reach the last hammer?

I'm seriously doubting it's possible, given I've spent the last two hours trying something that shouldn't take more than a few attempts max. This game and the controls can be so damn fustrating.

The way I see it, you need to jump onto the chain and then climb on top of it and then walk it until you've reached the upper level. The only thing is, it doesn't work - as soon as you start walking - after about 5 steps, Lara stops and the controls lock up and she dies as a result of hitting the wall and falling to the bottom. At times, you can't even get on top of the chain and in a standing position, as she'll just lock up in a crouching position and will not stand up in time. I'm most annoyed by the fact that I'm forced to waste my time on a broken and buggy control mechanism and can't advance in the game because of it... Surely there are more ways to make the game more tricky and challenging that aren't limited to the (usually unresponsive) controls of the game...

Any help or advice would be very much appreciated. If there's no way, is there some level jump cheat or something. I just can't bear to waste another few hours on something that really shouldn't be this fustrating...

At the very least, take this as some advice to check this part of the game for some testing....

Anyone with the PS3 version having some similar problems?

*Phil is very fustrated at the moment* :devilish: :oops:
 
In addition to my fustrated post, I have to admit, after hating the game (and its controls) for the large part of the first half of the game, I'm beginning to like it, a lot. It's definately a good Tomb Raider, though I'm not sure I think it's a better game than the first 2 Tomb Raider games back on the PSone. It's definately more complex, but I also think the controls could be a lot better, especially considering the amount of platforming elements. The Tomb Raiders on the PSone worked, because of the primitive system of moving blocks on a 2d grid and the jumps were always easy to gauge, since all you need to do was walk to the edge, jump once back and you had the perfect 3 step distance for the perfect long jump.

I also dislike the treasure things. They are far too often and spread throughout the level, up to the point that I've lost interest in finding/getting them. In the older games, finding treasures was something special, since you had to really go look for them to find them and every single one you found, was very rewarding.

Apart from that though, I'm liking the graphics, the huge levels, the architecture. Feels very Tomb Raider and gives me lots of good memories from the older games. The music is also good stuff and I like it that you guys didn't change the combat style from the older games. Nice. All in all, much better than I expected and just slightly disappointed (and fustrated) with the controls...

Cheers Phil
 
Crystal and Nixxes put together makes one studio, more or less. PC, PS3, and 360 are all one codebase and all are developed on simultaneously at all times both here and at Nixxes. If you want to talk about specifics of TCR compliance, platform-specific UI, support for keyboard/mouse, etc., then that's pretty much all Nixxes. On the broader level of the overall codebase, there are no ports at all among those 3 platforms.

Hi there. I've been reading your posts (as well as others) with interest and take most of what you say re: resolution, etc. as just plain sensible.

I have a question though. Why is it that there seems to be significantly more going on in the PS3 version about the 360 version? Rain, water covered surfaces, reflectve highlights on walls, etc. Is this due to use of SPU's for specific rendering techniques, over and above what is rendered on the GPU?
 
I'm seriously doubting it's possible, given I've spent the last two hours trying something that shouldn't take more than a few attempts max. This game and the controls can be so damn fustrating.

The way I see it, you need to jump onto the chain and then climb on top of it and then walk it until you've reached the upper level. The only thing is, it doesn't work - as soon as you start walking - after about 5 steps, Lara stops and the controls lock up and she dies as a result of hitting the wall and falling to the bottom. At times, you can't even get on top of the chain and in a standing position, as she'll just lock up in a crouching position and will not stand up in time. I'm most annoyed by the fact that I'm forced to waste my time on a broken and buggy control mechanism and can't advance in the game because of it... Surely there are more ways to make the game more tricky and challenging that aren't limited to the (usually unresponsive) controls of the game...


Haven't reached that part yet... I'm not far from it though :)
Up to this point I find the controls really responsive, perhaps there is an other way to reach your objective?
 
Haven't reached that part yet... I'm not far from it though :)
Up to this point I find the controls really responsive, perhaps there is an other way to reach your objective?

Not that I can tell. I even forced myself to read a walkthrough guide on the internet to be sure that I'm doing it the right way. Disturbingly, the walkthrough guide is very specific on this particular part of the game, leading to the assumption that there really shouldn't be anything difficult about it.

The room, which you will find when you get there isn't really complex and there aren't many options to choose from. Actually, there's only one way to reach the upper floor and that is, by walking the chain that leads to it. I'd be very interested to see if you have more success in that room. I tried again for an hour last night before eventually giving up.

Let me know when you get there... thanks!


PS: As for the controls: They're not that bad, but I stopped counting how many times I did trying to get Lara to jump in the right instance or in the right direction or simply do what I wanted her to do. The place where I'm stuck at the moment is simply the best example. Complex platforming where the controls just aren't adequate enough. Most of these problems are somewhat associated with the camera that at times makes it even more difficult...
 
One question though, sorry about the dumb ass question but what does this mean in comparison to regular anisotropic filtering on the PC?: "and a few specific per-instance illumination models like the anisotropic surface"???
It has no connection to aniso filtering, which is a texture-level operation. What I was referring to was the fact that certain things have lighting models which are dependent on direction of elements in the surface (i.e. anisotropic illumination). In the case of Lara's hair, for instance, we do illumination based on the direction of the hair strands at that pixel and also things like getting the multiple speculars -- one off the surface shifted closer to the light relative to the root and another that bounced around inside and was filtered by the pigments and is shifted away from the light relative to the root. Something that's relatively simple in practice but because it also requires a fair bit of additional setup work, it's just yet another example of instruction count limiters that, when put up against god knows how many other ways to cut back, was considered lower priority (especially since it was so sparsely utilized).

Are you at liberty to discuss the motion blur technique? (or perhaps a less dangerous comparison to Lost Planet's velocity maps?)
Hmmm... wasn't really involved with that as it was something added to the base template for the material system, and that's something that kind of just suddenly appeared out of nowhere when looking at it from my perspective. The filter itself is pretty ordinary, but I haven't looked in depth as to how the parameters are determined. I have my doubts as to just how much liberty I would be at to speak of it. I'd much more likely defer to some of the Dutchies at Nixxes to be more certain of who did what there.

I'm seriously annoyed at the moment. In the level "Jan Mayen Island", in the room of the last hammer (I assume you know which one) - the one with the short cut scene. How can you climb up in the room to reach the last hammer?
To be honest, I am not really sure, as I've never actually played through any level in the game. I've only cheated my way to specific points so that I could test some specific features/bugs (and those cheats are removed for the final game because they allow you to do things which can crash any game). I've at least *seen* most of the levels, though, so I'm guessing from your description, that you're talking about the room with several pendulum-swinging hammers and a long stone bridge... And while I don't know the actual solution myself (never actually needed to try), I don't think the solution you mentioned is actually the right one -- I've never heard of needing to climb a chain in there -- there are plenty of cases of solutions that *look* viable, but actually aren't, and several cases where solutions don't look viable, but actually are valid play paths. It's a hard thing to get away with when you're talking about a game that is meant to be that way, but releasing that game in an era of gaming where the "primrose path" style of level design is considered the gold standard (unless of course, you're doing an open-world game like GTA)

I have a question though. Why is it that there seems to be significantly more going on in the PS3 version about the 360 version? Rain, water covered surfaces, reflectve highlights on walls, etc. Is this due to use of SPU's for specific rendering techniques, over and above what is rendered on the GPU?
Hmmm... I'm not sure on that -- I'm only aware of major advantages for the PS3 in the area of physics and animation. Rendering is definitely not one of those. SPUs are not used for actual *rendering* in any way... they're only used in a rendering context as a sort of rescue mechanism to save you from feeding the GPU unreasonably.

Most of these problems are somewhat associated with the camera that at times makes it even more difficult...
Best thing in general to do with the camera is minimize monkeying with it in general. One of the common tests we did late in playthrough testing was actually to play the game with a MacGyvered "thumbstick mute" of sorts taped to the controller that prevents you from moving the right thumbstick altogether.
 
Back
Top