Tire + Wheel = Tweel

[_xxx_]

Ideas like this were around since we invented tires. This is neither the first nor the last of those.

If the outer ring brakes, the whole structure will be just ripped off, since the ring holds it all together.

We can give each other as many examples why it's safer or not as we wish, it doesn't change anything. Anything new that comes into a car must be thoroughly tested for _years_. It has to suffer many extreme tests in order to prove its durability. Safety _is_ the most important thing in any car, so that is the main issue here.

"Just engineering problems" is so easy to say. We had many engineering problems which killed many products right in the beginning. Even if it was something we could have solved, it might still be too costly for mass production. For example, think about producing a gfx card with 128 pipelines and whatnot. It could be produced today theoretically, we would "just" have to solve "some engineering problems".

And I guess you don't know much about car development and all the certification processes and laws that must be complied, that's why you think it's so easy.

EDIT:
I had a situation where a 620 hp engine ripped the wheels off the axes. Just imagine what such a car would do to these thingies

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

And I guess you don't know much about car development and all the certification processes and laws that must be complied, that's why you think it's so easy.

That's my point - we're not going to see it on cars unless it works because there is so much certification to get done. It not like this is a small startup company, this is R&D from one of the biggest tyre manufacturers in the world. However, I agree with you that the thing most likely to kill off any new ideas is not whether it's possible, but whether it's cheap enough

EDIT:
I had a situation where a 620 hp engine ripped the wheels off the axes. Just imagine what such a car would do to these thingies

Guess you didn't spec and test your wheels properly then, even though you know more than Michelin. How do you know the give in tweels wouldn't prevent just such a thing happening? How do you know that problem hasn't been thought of and dealt with?

 

[_xxx_]

Because I'm working in car development and have a lot of first-hand experience?

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Because I'm working in car development and have a lot of first-hand experience?

So you've worked on tweels then?

 

[_xxx_]

Of course not. I have worked quite a bit with suspension, axes and wheels though and can tell that this concept will probably never work for high speeds and high torque.

I may be wrong, let's just wait and see

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Of course not. I have worked quite a bit with suspension, axes and wheels though and can tell that this concept will probably never work for high speeds and high torque.

And yet there are guys who do exactly your job at Michelin who have publicly showcased this tech and are putting it into production on low speed vehicles with the intention of moving it to high speed vehicles (the Audi A4 isn't exactly a shopping cart). Those engineers obviously think differently to you about the subject.

I may be wrong, let's just wait and see

Well exactly.

 

[Captain Chickenpants]

And yet there are guys who do exactly your job at Michelin who have publicly showcased this tech and are putting it into production on low speed vehicles with the intention of moving it to high speed vehicles (the Audi A4 isn't exactly a shopping cart). Those engineers obviously think differently to you about the subject.

To be fair I am not sure that this is any different to when car manufacturers do Concept Cars. They put an idea out there to show that they are doing R&D and to see how the public responds, as to if it makes it into actual production then comes down to cost, safety, usefulness etc.

I like the look of these (ok not the look but the concept) and can see them catching on, at least in certain markets. Tyres have always seemed a fairly naff solution to me anyway, tyre pressure varies with temperature and altitude as well as the general issues of leakage and blowouts

CC

 

[nelg]

I'd guess that production versions would have sidewalls like a normal tyre, but they are using these to convey the point.

That goes without saying. I was not serious about the idea of leaving the sidewalls open. Besides they are butt ugly like that. They remind me of the old spoked wheels that were found on Lincoln’s and the like.

As far as the viability of such a design I would speculate that it is indeed a good concept that will eventually make its way into production vehicles.

 

[Guden Oden]

I see material failure in the vertical walls as the biggest danger with this thing. Normal tires don't fail this way often because they're flexible (and they don't carry the load of the vehicle either; it's the air that does that). These walls however need to be stiff to support many tons of pressure during momentary loads. They'll wear out sooner or later and when that happens you may be in serious trouble.

Remember the British Condor jet airliner back in the 50s?

 

[Sage]

the first thing I noticed was that it was invented by the guy who made the segways.... that does not instill great confidence

 

[nelg]

I see material failure in the vertical walls as the biggest danger with this thing. Normal tires don't fail this way often because they're flexible (and they don't carry the load of the vehicle either; it's the air that does that). These walls however need to be stiff to support many tons of pressure during momentary loads. They'll wear out sooner or later and when that happens you may be in serious trouble.

Remember the British Condor jet airliner back in the 50s?

What vertical walls? If you are referring to the support spokes(?) that join the tread to the wheel, consider that the failure of one of these would most likely not cause total failure. As far as compared to normal pneumatic tires, I have had several occasions where the sidewalls completely blow out (damm Firestones) resulting in sudden loss of control. IMHO a design like this would be much more fault tolerant.

 

[Himself]

sounds great for bicycle tires, gave up riding them because of freaking hassles with flats and slow leaks.. lol

 

[Sage]

sounds great for bicycle tires, gave up riding them because of freaking hassles with flats and slow leaks.. lol

[beer commercial]brilliant![/beer commercial]

 

[Guden Oden]

What vertical walls? If you are referring to the support spokes(?)

Whatever you want to call them.

consider that the failure of one of these would most likely not cause total failure.

If one goes, what's to say not more will go pretty much immediately afterwards? They'll all wear at the same rate, more or less, and when one of them dies it will increase the load on its two neighbors, thus making them die quicker.

If there are rubber sides on that thing it could be disintegrating internally and nobody would ever be the wiser until catastrophic failure occurs. Very dangerous, I think.

As far as compared to normal pneumatic tires, I have had several occasions where the sidewalls completely blow out (damm Firestones)

I've never heard of this happening to my father or any of my friends who drive. Do you make a habit of hitting curbs with your tires by any chance?

 

[nelg]

As far as compared to normal pneumatic tires, I have had several occasions where the sidewalls completely blow out (damm Firestones)

I've never heard of this happening to my father or any of my friends who drive. Do you make a habit of hitting curbs with your tires by any chance?

No curb kissing . Actually I was mistaken they were Uniroyal tires, not Firestone. It seems heat build up from driving with a heavy load (still well within operating range) caused the sidewalls to fatigue and go BOOM. The first time it happened I was driving with a Van full of friends, returning from white water rafting. First a big boom and then violent shaking and near loss of control. The tire incident was much scarier than the rafting.

 

[Sage]

0

they were Uniroyal tires

there's your problem! Uniroyal was THE place that the town worked where I grew up. It's starting to really expand now but it used to be that life for that town was simple- be born, go to church, have a baby, graduate high school, get married, go to work for Uniroyal. Almost all of my highschool friends slung tires at uniroyal at some point (the way the move tires about there is pay people like $12 an hour [considered BIG money!] to litterally throw tires around until their back gives out [and they cant get workmans comp, either]). So anyways back to my point- I know personally the potheads / crackheads / methheads / parrotheads that make those things.

 

[Althornin]

Because I'm working in car development and have a lot of first-hand experience?

that must explain why you persist in saying "brake" instead of "break".

I particularly love this gem:

If the outer ring brakes, the whole structure will be just ripped off, since the ring holds it all together.

Now, note the misuse of the "brake", as well as the ludicrous notion that this is a "flaw or problem" that does not exist on todays tires.

Hello? If the outer ring breaks on a modern tire, the entire thing will shred itself just the same. But hey, nice logical fallacy.

 

[Althornin]

If there are rubber sides on that thing it could be disintegrating internally and nobody would ever be the wiser until catastrophic failure occurs. Very dangerous, I think.

wow, just like a normal tire?

I don't get you guys. With zero knowledge of the stress test results and lifetime of the material (hell, you dont even know the material), and just your eyeballs, you are declaring this a "failure" "dangerous", etc.

I don't know either, but I'm not pretending that looking a few pictures of em on a car gives me the magical ability to decipher the most likely failure points and problems!

 

[_xxx_]

Because I'm working in car development and have a lot of first-hand experience?

that must explain why you persist in saying "brake" instead of "break".

I particularly love this gem:

If the outer ring brakes, the whole structure will be just ripped off, since the ring holds it all together.

Now, note the misuse of the "brake", as well as the ludicrous notion that this is a "flaw or problem" that does not exist on todays tires.

Hello? If the outer ring breaks on a modern tire, the entire thing will shred itself just the same. But hey, nice logical fallacy.

Like a broken leg, actually...

 

[_xxx_]

If there are rubber sides on that thing it could be disintegrating internally and nobody would ever be the wiser until catastrophic failure occurs. Very dangerous, I think.

wow, just like a normal tire?

I don't get you guys. With zero knowledge of the stress test results and lifetime of the material (hell, you dont even know the material), and just your eyeballs, you are declaring this a "failure" "dangerous", etc.

I don't know either, but I'm not pretending that looking a few pictures of em on a car gives me the magical ability to decipher the most likely failure points and problems!

Unless they found some alien technology, I doubt these can survive long