"Those weapons of mass destruction have got to be somew

[Joe DeFuria]

I do however have problems with not including that funding as part of the official budget because you don't want to make the budget figures look realistic in their representation of the yearly shortfall.

So do I. Of course, this means that you are assuming that any such supplemental was purposely left off the books in the first place, and not something that would be readily quantifiable.

Or adding in huge pork barrel spending to the appropriations bill in order to force people who want to fund the troops, but don't want to fund the pork, to make a decision that will be used against them later.

Welcome to "every single bill" in U.S. history.

 

[John Reynolds]

I still keep on hearing about this "myth" about our lowered credibility in our fight against terrorism. I don't see mud on our face, I see a free Iraq.

Oh, a little thing like European polls that now show the citizens of our closest allies viewing our president as the greatest threat to world peace, even over and above terrorist organizations. No one made the Bush administration beat the drum of WMD and Saddam-terrorists like they chose to prior to the invasion, and for whatever reason if you feel so compelled to blind yourself to the fact that the world has reacted to our sacking a nation under false pretenses. . .well, you go right ahead. You see a flag of liberty flying over Iraq, while I'll side with our Founding Fathers and see instead a flag of force, and perhaps one day oppression. The Bush administration and those who support it can sit back and congratulate themselves for removing a dictator from power, all the while ignoring the fact that that dictator was a poodle compared to a doberman when it comes to the threat he posed to our nation or our interests and the threat other dictators, left unscathed, represent. Reagan's former Secretary of the Navy said it best when he described the invasion of Iraq as the greatest military blunder in modern history.

 

[Natoma]

I do however have problems with not including that funding as part of the official budget because you don't want to make the budget figures look realistic in their representation of the yearly shortfall.

So do I. Of course, this means that you are assuming that any such supplemental was purposely left off the books in the first place, and not something that would be readily quantifiable.

I have my suspicions, in large part stemming from the Lawrence Lindsey fiasco from 2002.

Or adding in huge pork barrel spending to the appropriations bill in order to force people who want to fund the troops, but don't want to fund the pork, to make a decision that will be used against them later.

Welcome to "every single bill" in U.S. history.

Like I said. The dirty underhanded political crap that gets attached to things it has no business influencing.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Oh, a little thing like European polls that now show the citizens of our closest allies viewing our president as the greatest threat to world peace, even over and above terrorist organizations.

Who are these closest allies. And are these the same countries that have an alarmingly high increase in anti-semitism?

Reagan's former Secretary of the Navy said it best when he described the invasion of Iraq as the greatest military blunder in modern history.

No worries. History will prove otherwise. (And is that the same Sec of the Navy who's now calling Clarke a liar, btw? Honest Question....)

 

[Joe DeFuria]

(And is that the same Sec of the Navy who's now calling Clarke a liar, btw? Honest Question....)

I assume it is:

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/3/24/153453.shtml

 

[John Reynolds]

Who are these closest allies. And are these the same countries that have an alarmingly high increase in anti-semitism?

If Western Europe has not been our closest ally for decades then I don't know what to say. Welcome to the world of DeFuria semantics, I guess.

Nice non sequitur on the anti-semitism, though. What should I glean from that? Possible rise in anti-semitism must equate to a support of the Islamic world? Or was that just a broad swipe taken at Europeans in general? And as an American, I hardly think we hold the high ground on race relations.

No worries. History will prove otherwise. (And is that the same Sec of the Navy who's now calling Clarke a liar, btw? Honest Question....)

I have no idea, though I hardly see how it relates. I'm a conservative who thoroughly dislikes the Bush administration; does one negate the other?

 

[Natoma]

I'm a conservative who thoroughly dislikes the Bush administration; does one negate the other?

Apparently so,

By talking heads do you mean: bush hating leftwing nuts. Im sure they get upset everytime he wakes up.

Go to hell you bush-hating-communist-manifesto-spouting-terrorist-loving-frenchman!

 

[digitalwanderer]

Do you even read the news past confirming your own partisan views?

Sometimes.

No, really. Do you?

I said "sometimes"!

There have been many international cooperations concerning the financial networks of Al Qaeda. I won't bother to hunt up the news stories because they're too numerous.

I'm sure there have been many international cooperations Russ, but there has also been a bit of a change internationally in the view of our government and what it is doing...and by "internationally" I mean that the majority of the world seems to be against our invasion of Iraq under false pretenses, with the duly noted exception of the governments of the "Coalition of Da Willing".

To be honest about me news souces Russ? Aside from posts I have pointed out to me on the boards I pretty much find that between The Drudge Report, The Daily Show, and Hardball with Chris Mathews I get pretty much all the news I need. (Well, I'm starting to like Keith Oberman too...but that's just 'cause he's a bit silly. )

 

[Nathan]

Here's an interesting summary of how people around the world feel.
http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?PageID=795

 

[Fred]

Its truly horrifying that so many people (if the polls are true, and I question their veracity) think that suicide bombing against civilians is an acceptable measure of action.

No, its not horrifying.. Its pathetic, by just about any standard of human behaviour.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Its truly horrifying that so many people (if the polls are true, and I question their veracity) think that suicide bombing against civilians is an acceptable measure of action.

No, its not horrifying.. Its pathetic, by just about any standard of human behaviour.

True, but I have a feeling there are some people who also view it as a sign of extreme desperation and an indicator of just how badly what we're doing is viewed by some other countries. (Yeah, I'm one of those people...but I still think it's pathetic and horrifying too.)

 

[Joe DeFuria]

If Western Europe has not been our closest ally for decades then I don't know what to say. Welcome to the world of DeFuria semantics, I guess.

Ally in what endeavor? To defeat Communism?

Nice non sequitur on the anti-semitism, though. What should I glean from that? Possible rise in anti-semitism must equate to a support of the Islamic world?

No, that the "feelings and support of the populace" isn't necessarily something that we should be trying to appease. I thought that was obvious.

I have no idea, though I hardly see how it relates. I'm a conservative who thoroughly dislikes the Bush administration; does one negate the other?

No, did I say so?

 

[Joe DeFuria]

I'm a conservative who thoroughly dislikes the Bush administration; does one negate the other?

Apparently so,

Go back under that bridge, troll.

 

[John Reynolds]

Ally in what endeavor? To defeat Communism?

So now that the Berlin wall is fallen we should just throw that goodwill and positive relations out the window?

No, that the "feelings and support of the populace" isn't necessarily something that we should be trying to appease. I thought that was obvious.

Wait, I thought the loss of credibility was a "myth"? Now that it's not a myth we shouldn't be trying to appease it? What's so "obvious" about you jumping your argument through semantic hoops? And how does one appease a myth?

No, did I say so?

Well, I assume you brought it up for some valid, logical, comparative/analogous reason.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Ally in what endeavor? To defeat Communism?

So now that the Berlin wall is fallen we should just throw that goodwill and positive relations out the window?

It's kind of a moot point, we already DID throw it out.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Ally in what endeavor? To defeat Communism?

So now that the Berlin wall is fallen we should just throw that goodwill and positive relations out the window?

No, but it doesn't mean that we just follow or go along with blindly, particularly in matters of self defense.

And I've said this before, but it apparently bears repeating. Good-will works two ways. Where is all the "good-will" coming from certain European countries in recognizing our sovreignity, and that we have a difference of opinion, we won't convincve one another, so let's move on?

Wait, I thought the loss of credibility was a "myth"? Now that it's not a myth we shouldn't be trying to appease it?

I'm talking about loss of credibility and strained relationships of government leadership being a basically a myth. I don't see anyone "brekaing ties" with the U.S.? I didn't see Bush go out and bash new Spanish leadership, and I didn't see the new Spanish leadership they would break ties with the U.S. I see disagreements, and I see the channels of communication still open.

Well, I assume you brought it up for some valid, logical, comparative/analogous reason.

This assumes, you are speaking from a logical perspective.

 

[Natoma]

I'm a conservative who thoroughly dislikes the Bush administration; does one negate the other?

Apparently so,

Go back under that bridge, troll.

Way to snip out the rest of the post.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

I'm a conservative who thoroughly dislikes the Bush administration; does one negate the other?

Apparently so,

Go back under that bridge, troll.

Way to snip out the rest of the post.

sigh...

Go to hell you bush-hating-communist-manifesto-spouting-terrorist-loving-frenchman!

Now, go back under that bridge, troll.

(Happy now?)

 

[Natoma]

Way to snip out epicstruggle's comment, to which my comment was an obvious satirical remark, in context with John's statement. Damn, you really are a good trolling flame baiter aren't you Joe.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Way to snip out epicstruggle's comment, to which my comment was an obvious satirical remark, in context with John's statement. Damn, you really are a good trolling flame baiter aren't you Joe.

Double Sigh...

John Reynolds wrote:
I'm a conservative who thoroughly dislikes the Bush administration; does one negate the other?


Apparently so,

epicstruggle wrote:
By talking heads do you mean: bush hating leftwing nuts. Im sure they get upset everytime he wakes up.


Go to hell you bush-hating-communist-manifesto-spouting-terrorist-loving-frenchman!

Now, go back under that bridge, Troll.

(And I thought it was better netiquette to not copy and past entire posts, but whatever floats your boat.)