The ReBirth of Cell *mitosis*

[Egmon83]

Btw, I think MS should ditch AMD, really. Think about it: With IBM (according to a book on how 360 was created) they sold some of the Cell technology; the core block, to MS; technology that was paid for by both Sony and Toshiba.

Compare that to AMD. They should have at least warned MS about the PS4 design.

 

[London Geezer]

The stuff you post... I never know if you're being sarcastic.

 

[Egmon83]

It's not sarcastic; look it up:

According to the book, Sony, Toshiba and IBM started working on the Cell in 2001 and planned to spend $400 million over five years. If everything went according to plan, the PlayStation 3 would be out by Christmas 2005. In 2002, Microsoft approached IBM about making a chip for what would later be known as the Xbox 360. IBM ended up making a new chip "built around the core" of the Cell it was currently creating for Sony. In the end, Xbox made the 2005 launch (with a time bomb under the hood) and Sony came out a year later.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/31/book-covers-creation-of-ps3s-cell-processor-how-microsoft-crib/

 

[BRiT]

CF&D for even suggesting this.

 

[3dilettante]

There was a confluence of spending on what became the general-purpose cores of the PS3 and 360, but it's a little more complicated than saying Sony and Toshiba paid for Microsoft's core.
In the end, IBM engineered a more complex L2 arrangement, and significantly expanded the vector capability for Xenon. I recall some articles indicating that the option to update Cell's PPE was offered, possibly this was after another revision already. It would seem odd to do so if Sony had already paid for all it.

The downsides in this case seem rather stark, in that IBM really funded a lot of circuit testing and design tweaks that fed into POWER6 and its in-order high-speed design philosophy, and Sony and Microsoft got some really gimpy console cores.

 

[HTupolev]

Err... are you saying that AMD should have performed acts of prophecy and/or espionage to discover years ahead of time when GDDR5 would reach sufficient density for an 8GB PS4, and then fed Microsoft protected information, and that them not doing so means that Microsoft should fire them?

 

[3dilettante]

To add to that point, IBM implemented some amount of internal firewalls between teams to avoid passing competitive information around.
The companies are being paid in part to keep silent.

If there were one reason why there might be some hesitation in going with AMD is that for some reason it at least appears on the surface to have been far leakier than IBM was.
We heard rumors about the x86 consoles, weak comparisons between the two, hints at shared staff between the projects, and even advanced notice of AMD's whole semi-custom division ahead of time. To this day, it seems like there is no end to the stream of Linkedin profiles from AMD employees or former employees spilling internal data.

Possibly, it's not always without value to the console customers, since at least the rumors of the PS4 Neo allegedly did not come from that wellspring of all things trade-secret. Maybe Sony and Microsoft are trying to feel each other out indirectly on this, like the halting, jittery, courtship of cannibal tarantula.

 

[Grall]

They should have at least warned MS about the PS4 design.

Wut.

That'd be industrial espionage and breach of contract. Awesome legal double whammy, plus, stabbing one of your own business partners in the back like that? Awesome way to attract new customers!

 

[Clukos]

 

[I.S.T.]

CF&D for even suggesting this.

CF&D?

 

[Egmon83]

In a MS powerpoint by AMD it could have had a slide with
"8GB GDDR5, an excellent choice for AMD APU's" and then go like:
"Whoops, that was supposed to go in the powerpoint for the other guys" *wink wink*

Some people are always claiming that a dominating console platform is bad for competition and the industry, so AMD could have singlehandedly changed the console industry, for the better (according to some, if you extrapolate their reasoning).

Or in the elevator, the AMD boss says to Don Matrick after a meeting:
"Do you trade stocks Don? No? Well, you should. I hear the company 8GB GDDR5 is about to go through the roof" *wink wink*

Or after the meeting the AMD boss goes to dinner with Don Matrick, they have a great time, the food is excellent. Don says: "We should do this more often!" The AMD boss says, yes, our glasses are empty btw, let me order some more:
"Waiter, could we have another bottle of 8GB GDDR5 over here? Oh excuse me Don, I always sound like Sony when I'm drunk" *wink wink*

the possibilities are endless as you see. No need for backstabbing secret documents leaking out-type of deals. Just a patriotic meeting between 2 bosses who want do whats right for the industry

 

[London Geezer]

Seriously now, how old are you?

 

[function]

In a MS powerpoint by AMD it could have had a slide with
"8GB GDDR5, an excellent choice for AMD APU's" and then go like:
"Whoops, that was supposed to go in the powerpoint for the other guys" *wink wink*

Some people are always claiming that a dominating console platform is bad for competition and the industry, so AMD could have singlehandedly changed the console industry, for the better (according to some, if you extrapolate their reasoning).

Or in the elevator, the AMD boss says to Don Matrick after a meeting:
"Do you trade stocks Don? No? Well, you should. I hear the company 8GB GDDR5 is about to go through the roof" *wink wink*

Or after the meeting the AMD boss goes to dinner with Don Matrick, they have a great time, the food is excellent. Don says: "We should do this more often!" The AMD boss says, yes, our glasses are empty btw, let me order some more:
"Waiter, could we have another bottle of 8GB GDDR5 over here? Oh excuse me Don, I always sound like Sony when I'm drunk" *wink wink*

the possibilities are endless as you see. No need for backstabbing secret documents leaking out-type of deals. Just a patriotic meeting between 2 bosses who want do whats right for the industry

AMD don't make dram. Dram makers make dram. MS deal directly with the dram makers.

MS would have had first hand dealings with dram makers when they were making platform decisions, two or more years before Sony decided to go with 8GB.

The tags for this thread are very apt.

 

[Egmon83]

AMD don't make dram. Dram makers make dram. MS deal directly with the dram makers.

MS would have had first hand dealings with dram makers when they were making platform decisions, two or more years before Sony decided to go with 8GB.

The tags for this thread are very apt.

So AMD did not know what type of memory / memory controller would be accompanying the APU they were designing...?

 

[function]

So AMD did not know what type of memory / memory controller would be accompanying the APU they were designing...?

That is an entirely separate question. You were talking about the quantity of memory.

Dram makers would have provided MS and Sony with roadmaps for memory. Both APU designs were laid down long before Sony decided to go with 8GB of ram in early 2013.

What you are suggesting would not only have been industrial espionage and highly damaging to AMD's business, it was also information that AMD didn't have.

 

[Grall]

the possibilities are endless as you see. No need for backstabbing secret documents leaking out-type of deals. Just a patriotic meeting between 2 bosses who want do whats right for the industry

Poe's law indeed.

Just in case you're totally NOT trolling the hell out of everyone on purpose; what the F kind of drugs are you on? You really don't have a clue, do you? This whole line of reasoning is so out of this world stupid I don't even know where to begin. You understand that in order to secure a contract like designing the hardware of another company's new console, severe non-disclosure agreements would be a part of it to prevent competitors from finding out about your future plans, yes?

Well, no, it would seem.

You think they're just playing games over at AMD or what? Contracts aren't legally binding? Sony would be completely oblivious and clueless as AMD leaks their secrets to the competition...?

You know what would most assuredly happen if AMD was to start dropping hints to MS about Sony in a not very subtle manner? MS legal dep't would be on the phones to Sony legal like white on rice, alerting them of the breach, because if they don't they would most likely not only get complicent in the breaching of Sony's contract (and on the hook for vast legal costs and damages payout in a lawsuit); next time it might be MS's secrets AMD leaks to someone!

Jesus F. Christ.

 

[bunge]

This thread makes me wonder if PSVR is going to be any good

 

[3dilettante]

This thread makes me wonder if PSVR is going to be any good

Let's check the eye blink patterns of AMD's CEO during the most recent webcasts for confirmation in Morse Code.

 

[MrFox]

Let's check the eye blink patterns of AMD's CEO during the most recent webcasts for confirmation in Morse Code.

His lips were saying "Everything going great, on a path to profitability, I love my job", but the morse from the eyes blinking were saying "under duress from investors, please help me".

 

[London Geezer]

"I'm a celebrity, get me out of here"