The Passion

[Legion]

So..you're saying that Christianity is a myth generated by the early church?

I am saying it started as a cult and evoled much like every other religion.

The basic tenet of Christianity is that salvation comes through Christ, and that he died for our sins. The whole "lamb of God" thing.

No, that is a post facto attempt to fuse the christian mythos to teachings in the torah via symbolism.

 

[John Reynolds]

Just like Life of Brian, yes?

Dogma was propaganda? Dogma didn't propagate anything, it was a comedy. There was nothing in that movie that anyone could take serious. Shit demons? Black Jesus? Chris Rock as the 13th apostel? Metatron a cynical Brit? Alanis Morissette as God?

I am so tired of Xians with a persecution complex.

People fail to separate Christianity from their expressed forms of religion. Both films in this discussion didn't mock the tenets of Christianity. Python did a great job lambasting the religious silliness of how Christianity is so splintered: "Cast off the gourd, follow the shoe! It's not a shoe, it's a sandle!"

The Last Temptation of Christ was far more of an 'attack' against Christianity than either Dogma or Brian.

 

[L233]

It is my belief this was myth generated by christian theologans of the early church.

Well, duh. Pretty much all of what makes Christianity today was made up by early church theologians, including the divinity of Jesus (in the form of the Holy Trinity) introduced at the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD and the successive brutal persecution of Arianism and other theological schools that argued that Jesus was not consubstantial to God.

In fact, we only have a few OT fragments predating that time and we know for sure that the whole thing was revised and edited numerous times.

Well, if you don't believe that Jesus died for our sins then how are we supposed to achieve salvation? What do you believe and on what do you base your believes on?

 

[akira888]

I am so tired of [Christians - J.K.] with a persecution complex.

Just out of curiousity, what is the exact etiology of your deep emotional disdain of the Christian church and Christians in general? I'm not a believer per se, but I know many who are and would rather know what they have done to make you feel this way.

 

[Legion]

Just like Life of Brian, yes?

Dogma was propaganda? Dogma didn't propagate anything, it was a comedy. There was nothing in that movie that anyone could take serious. Shit demons? Black Jesus? Chris Rock as the 13th apostel? Metatron a cynical Brit? Alanis Morissette as God?

I am so tired of Xians with a persecution complex.

Bullshit. Dogma propigated a whole shit load of material.

One major story point serves as a good example:

Jesus didn't come to start a religion.

The movie itself served the purpose of making christianity, specifically catholicism, look insipid. It sought to reveal the convolusion (a lot of it being completely contrived) in order to intellectually demonize the religion.

Yes, it was propaganda.

 

[Legion]

Well, duh.

Why are you pretending this is common knowledge?

Pretty much all of what makes Christianity today was made up by early church theologians, including the divinity of Jesus (in the form of the Holy Trinity) introduced at the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD and the successive brutal persecution of Arianism and other theological schools that argued that Jesus was not consubstantial to God.

Don't hand me a "duh" when a the simple recognition of the decisions within the council of Nicaea don't relate to past influence of paganism and gnosticism within christanity. The council decided among many things, what books should be apart of the cannon. This does not relate to us whether these stories were completely contrived (ie not being based on historical events at all). Its only an attempt at creating what they saw as consistancy. I am more than positive most people today have no idea of the totality of similiarities between paganism and christianity or for that matter their significance.

In fact, we only have a few OT fragments predating that time and we know for sure that the whole thing was revised and edited numerous times.

I am not sure if i'd even go that far.

Well, if you don't believe that Jesus died for our sins then how are we supposed to achieve salvation? What do you believe and on what do you base your believes on?

I am an atheist l233. Please stop assuming i am religious because i defend christian, as you say, victimizism.

 

[John Reynolds]

Bullshit. Dogma propigated a whole shit load of material.

One major story point serves as a good example:

Jesus didn't come to start a religion.

The movie itself served the purpose of making christianity, specifically catholicism, look insipid. It sought to reveal the convolusion (a lot of it being completely contrived) in order to intellectually demonize the religion.

Yes, it was propaganda.

Catholicism does a damn good job of making itself look insipid. And every religion has aspects of its doctrine that anyone could poke a little fun at. People need to lighten up. And neither Brian nor Dogma directly attacked Christ, so I was cool with them. On the other hand, Last Temptation made an absolute mockery of the man, so I turned it off after about 20 minutes.

 

[Legion]

Catholicism does a damn good job of making itself look insipid.

I am sure we could dig around the anals of your belief structure and expose falacious reasoning we could exploit as well.

And every religion has aspects of its doctrine that anyone could poke a little fun at.

These holds true as well with beliefs within atheist hedonism, humanism, and evolution chicanery.

People need to lighten up.

You say that now, wait until they turn out a movie entitled " The Life of Reynold then we'll see what you have to say

And neither Brian nor Dogma directly attacked Christ, so I was cool with them.

No, but they attacked christian theology which should insult them.

On the other hand, Last Temptation made an absolute mockery of the man, so I turned it off after about 20 minutes.

So did Jesus Christ superstar but i digress

 

[John Reynolds]

You say that now, wait until they turn out a movie entitled " The Life of Reynolds then we'll see what you have to say

Pffft, boring. But I'd help them make it. I have a great ability to laugh at myself.

 

[RussSchultz]

So..you're saying that Christianity is a myth generated by the early church?

I am saying it started as a cult and evoled much like every other religion.

The basic tenet of Christianity is that salvation comes through Christ, and that he died for our sins. The whole "lamb of God" thing.

No, that is a post facto attempt to fuse the christian mythos to teachings in the torah via symbolism.

It sounds to me that you're attempting to discredit Christianity as a valid mythos. If thats what you're after, I can accept that.

I can't, however, accept that (within the Christian framework) Christ did not die for man's sins. Its a basic tenent, and without it Christianity is not Christianity.

 

[John Reynolds]

I can't, however, accept that (within the Christian framework) Christ did not die for man's sins. Its a basic tenent, and without it Christianity is not Christianity.

Indeed, if he wasn't the last Passover we are, as Paul wrote, the greatest of fools.

 

[Legion]

I can't, however, accept that (within the Christian framework) Christ did not die for man's sins. Its a basic tenent, and without it Christianity is not Christianity.

Indeed, if he wasn't the last Passover we are, as Paul wrote, the greatest of fools.

Paul also stated we should be all things to all men...hense his credibility is nill.

 

[Legion]

It sounds to me that you're attempting to discredit Christianity as a valid mythos. If thats what you're after, I can accept that.

I will surely discredit christian theology on the grounds of more verifiable material. This bullshit like jesus not coming to start a church, or likewise influencing the rise of a church, is completely contrived hollywood esque revisionist history.

One such matter i hold highly in content is the jesus' lineage to david which is essential to his state of being the messiah.

I can't, however, accept that (within the Christian framework) Christ did not die for man's sins. Its a basic tenent, and without it Christianity is not Christianity.

Within the framework its fairly obvious (at this point) he died for our sins. However i do not believe the man existed as christ (perhaps not at all). I feel the salvation myth is something that was later contrived.

 

[Blade]

The Last Temptation may have been a mockery of the man (much like The Reagans is for Ronald Reagan..) but as a fictional take on Jesus and a film for our entertainment I thought it was pretty good. I don't know what to think exactly, but personally I think Jesus may have been more down to Earth than some people believe.

You can't tell though. The best thing I can do is live a good life, and when I die I'll find out the answers to many of life's questions. BTW, I'm definitely going to see The Passion in the theaters.

Christians.. Atheists.. everything I've read from every group of people dictates that it is awesome.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Christians.. Atheists.. everything I've read from every group of people dictates that it is awesome.

Yes....it's the people who haven't seen it that are generally making the biggest stink.

I'm sure I'll go see it myself...I refuse to comment much on it until I do.

 

[L233]

Just out of curiousity, what is the exact etiology of your deep emotional disdain of the Christian church and Christians in general?

I have no disdain for mainstream Xians, I tolerate them. I despise the fundamentalists and the literalists. Televangelists, Creationists, holy rollers and politicians who drag Jebus into politics.

I don't like any form of theism but I am morbidly fascinated in particular with Xianity because I grew up in a Xian society and Xianity's basic tenets appear to me as the most ridiculous and far-fetched of all three Abrahamic religions.

I have even read a couple of books about biblical archeology ("Who Wrote the Bible", "Who Wrote the New Testament", "The Bible Unearthed"). I regularly read Creationist web sites because I am fascinated by how stupid people can be. My fascination with religion is probably comparable to those people who find it fascinating to look at pictures of rotten or mutilated corpses.

I always felt like this but one incident aggravated its by several orders of magnitude. About 12 years ago my parents and I visited a friend of my father in some small town near Atlanta. The family was nice but they were really religious Baptists. On Sunday they offered us to accompany them to church and I took the offer out of boredom and curiosity.

They had it all. A priest preaching fire, brimstone and damnation. People dancing around calling to the Holy Ghost. Laying hands on foreheads. Two women fainting in religious ecstasy. People standing up and screaming "praise the Lord!" and "Hallelujah" for no apparent reason. I felt like I was in a circus. It was crass and shrill and over-the-top.

On the way back, they asked me how I liked it. I didn't know how to answer.

Since that day I have real problems taking religious people, especially Xians, seriously.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Since that day I have real problems taking religious people, especially Xians, seriously.

I would too if that happened in my church...

 

[John Reynolds]

Paul also stated we should be all things to all men...hense his credibility is nill.

Well, there goes the bulk of the NT. Next?

 

[John Reynolds]

Since that day I have real problems taking religious people, especially Xians, seriously.

I would too if that happened in my church...

Charismatic services are truly scary.

 

[Legion]

Paul also stated we should be all things to all men...hense his credibility is nill.

Well, there goes the bulk of the NT. Next?

Yep...peter was the rock which jesus' church was supposed to be established...did that happen? No. Right here we have an excellent example of a substantial argument against christian theology.