I respectfully disagree. The level design in Doom IS the game, the way it makes use of the spaces and how the wildly different enemy types and player resources are arranged within them, there's nothing like that in current games. Even Rage doesn't come close, despite the fact that it has kept at least the movement and gunplay mechanics from that old but golden age of shooters.
The Order: 1886
- Thread starter Bagel seed
- Start date
-
- Tags
- tig:theorder1886
I respectfully disagree. The level design in Doom IS the game, the way it makes use of the spaces and how the wildly different enemy types and player resources are arranged within them, there's nothing like that in current games. Even Rage doesn't come close, despite the fact that it has kept at least the movement and gunplay mechanics from that old but golden age of shooters.
D
Deleted member 13524
Guest
How are Bioshock and Dishonored inferior to Doom in that aspect?
Games have changed drastically, but it's important to take a refresher. Watch through the first two walk throughs, part 1 and part 2 and its noticeably different from games today.
The game is implicit in its own pacing, discovery and exploration is handled through the concept of secrets. The maps are larger and leaves you to your own choices to deal with completion of the map. The experience isn't curated at all, they don't try to make you do anything like walk up to someone and knife them from behind. There is no force, just, the game is about beating the level.
It's a different concept, but I think you'll agree as old as doom is even watching this play through I found much more entertaining to watch than expected.
Doom is about the map as Laa Yosh says, it was about map mastery. Especially on harder difficulties. Games today are about story progression, Doom was about learning the map. Knowing where things were. You played it different. I haven't a clue where anything was in bioshock, I just remember the story bits at the beginning and end of each segment. I recall some boss battles too, mainly action sequences. Bioshock was a great game though, it didn't suffer as much as other games did.
Compare first 15 minutes of Order? Edit: whoop wrong link
Last edited:
ArcticCircle
Newcomer
I can't get over how good this game looks. Not just parts of it but everything I've seen so far.
Doom maps were arcade puzzles with shooting. My friend made really great map for it - You basically couldn't miss a single shot or miss any secrets but it also meant you had to play it certain way. Sort of like if modern games would have much higher difficulty setting. I guess survival horror games try something like that, but even they are usually too generous with items (especially if game allow unarmed or melee kills).
I really jealous that currently most beautiful game is not available for PC.
Doom maps were arcade puzzles with shooting. My friend made really great map for it - You basically couldn't miss a single shot or miss any secrets but it also meant you had to play it certain way. Sort of like if modern games would have much higher difficulty setting. I guess survival horror games try something like that, but even they are usually too generous with items (especially if game allow unarmed or melee kills).
I really jealous that currently most beautiful game is not available for PC.
One thing's for sure......the hype was built up a little too high for this one. We have like 20 pages of discussion about disappointment and expectations now.
And yeah Doom was neat in 1993 but I don't think maze keyhunts and monster closets are the answer anymore.
And yeah Doom was neat in 1993 but I don't think maze keyhunts and monster closets are the answer anymore.
Last edited:
Billy Idol
Legend
Looking back:
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2013/06/10/the-order-1886-brings-victorian-era-to-playstation-4/
They achieved their vision.
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2013/06/10/the-order-1886-brings-victorian-era-to-playstation-4/
They achieved their vision.
Yes I think it is probably the best looking game for the moment.
I will start playing the Order 1886 on Twitch in just a few minutes @ http://www.twitch.tv/diehaard 
D
Deleted member 86764
Guest
I'd watch if I wasn't at work
Game looks good, but it could distinctly use some color variety in a huge way. Like, that kinda ruins it.
All amazing looking games know how to use that trick...same colors same colors...bam all new totally different themed level blows your mind.
Yeah, my brother played Ultimate Doom or something a ton over a few days on PS1 back then while I watched. I think his joke (more a observation really!) a decade+ later was he's still sick of doom from that experience.
All amazing looking games know how to use that trick...same colors same colors...bam all new totally different themed level blows your mind.
Yeah, my brother played Ultimate Doom or something a ton over a few days on PS1 back then while I watched. I think his joke (more a observation really!) a decade+ later was he's still sick of doom from that experience.
D
Deleted member 13524
Guest
To be frank, the majority of your post represents exactly what I criticized here:
https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/1826172/
I said there were current-day alternatives to Doom and pointed them out, yet you insisted in comparing Doom to The Order which assumes from moment zero that presents its story in a completely different way.
It's like complaining about about how R-Type doesn't play like Super Mario enough.
Regarding alternatives to Doom, here's a snippet from a review of Dishonored:
And I'm not even going for shooters where the whole game is sandboxed like the Far Cry series.
That said, I still stand by the fact that using that "Doom vs. nowadays" picture to complain about today's games isn't a very smart thing to do, and it could only come from someone who has no idea what games have been released these past 5 years.
Everyone is free to prefer one genre over the other, but anyone claiming a game is bad because it doesn't fit his/her preferred genre is just being intolerant, IMO. I hate football games, but I'm not going around saying FIFA 15 is a terrible game. It seems to fit its audience pretty well.
I did play dishonoured. The game started with a 5-10 minute cutscene before I could start the jail. It's not that I don't appreciate where games have gone but the picture seemed appropriate to the situation.
My post wasn't a deliberate attack in games today; people enjoy narrative. How games gave changed from then to now did seem appropriate. Both designs of gameplay are fine, one is certainly more accessible though. One is very much a game. The other is an all encompassing experience.
Modern day Doom, Modern day doom is actually Destiny. As much as I make fun of it for its terrible story something it was trying to accomplish, it removed all cutscenes that killed game flow. The games technical merits on shooting is what keeps people coming back.
Sure there is a tread mill for gear but no one can deny when it comes to the feeling of just shooting in its nativity Destiny has it down right. I remember every map in destiny, i know how each enemy needs to be killed. I know where all the chest spawn. People know how to abuse the map to perform impossible feats solo. I don't feel that way about dishonoured, there are parts I will general forget about the shooting aspect at least. I generally forget about the map as well.
Once again, there is nothing wrong with narrative. But the shooting aspect in first person shooter has largely taken a back seat, looking back to the past to see how shooting as a genre was defined is not a terrible idea.
Multiple ways to approach an engagement is not necessarily map mastery. That's like calling a set piece in call of duty map mastery. By its right dishonoured was a great game, you chose solid examples of games that are still solid first person shooters.
Edit: and for why I compared Doom to the order: I just wanted to showcase a game with no frills and complex map design and a game that is highly cinematic and basic map design.
Watching how the players move through their respective levels, and watching the pace of the game. When Doom gives control of the game to the player it never takes it back (until the level ends). That is largely satisfying. All great FPS games with and without narrative have done it this way.
When you take control away from the player in the middle of the game and highly curate the action and the level as a method of forcing the game to adhere to the story you are left with an empty feeling.
Last edited:
I was wondering the same thing. Those black bars, plus the white-on-dark HUD gives me palpitations just thinking about my plasma.
D
Deleted member 11852
Guest
Translucent or movable HUDs should be standard these days. Lots of people have complained about burn in from Destiny's HUD.
It's kind of off topic. But Bioshock and Dishonored are as far from "alternative to Doom" as it gets.
Both are just bad shooters, with an attempt on "deep story".
Doom is a good shooter, i.e. you shoot and that's it, no "different paths" no "hundreds of weapons and powers", etc.
Billy Idol
Legend
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Auto preload did not work...
Auto preload did not work...
Last edited:
It's pretty irritating when the guns have ammo counters on themselves and there's an additional ammo counter for the main HUD.
Well I've started playing and so far so good! I'd prefer more freedom to explore the locale than it gives you but I'm enjoying it so that's good.
