The Next-gen Situation discussion *spawn
- Thread starter gongo
- Start date
It's rare though that's why ME3 stands out ike a sore thumb. In the end if a company wants to target console and tablet and require keyboard for console and tablet then they are welcome to try, but natural selection will eliminate such nonsense fairly quick. The smart and succesfully companies will support gamepad and virtual gamepad.
An alternate way to phrase it...if Apple brought out a standard wireless gamepad for use with iPads tomorrow, do you feel that all game companies that support tablet would totally ignore it? Or would they flock to it and support it wherever possible? We could make a friendly wager out of it. I'll bet the top 10 tablet game companies all flock to support it.
They'd ignore it until it's sales numbers reached millions of units. Why would millions of people buy something that's not supported with software? Is Apple going to start making first party games to support it?
Maybe we could start a poll and see how many people are going to run out and buy an apple branded controller and an ipad to TV cable when they can buy a 4GB xbox for about the same amount of money (this assumes you have the tablet). And the xbox will probably include a game.
With Steve Jobs no longer at the helm I think it makes it possible, but we'll see. If not no biggie since Microsoft would probably do it anyways.
Well many phone/tablet games prolly already support gamepad just because it makes it easier to debug, plus nowadays you never know what platform your product will end up on in the end. It's just that right now any gamepad support gets #ifdef debug'd out. It's not like adding gamepad support is hard anyways, any one eyed intern with only cobol experience can add it in a weekend. Look how quickly game center was supported when apple launched that, I think iGamepad support would come just as rapidly.
Depends on what forum you want to ask on. On this forum no chance, it's a console forum after all. That would be like me making a poll in the pc gaming forum asking if people prefered gamepad to keyboard. But there is no shortage of people out there that would opt first for the tablet and not care about the xbox console. Posted on the right forum that poll would be a slaughter in favor of the tablet. There are far more tablet users out there after all, and "intent to buy" polls strongly favor tablets over consoles as well, it's borderline lopsided.
How many of those tablet people buy those accessories is the question. Addon's typically don't have good attach rates. MS spent hundreds of millions and had first party support for kinect and managed to get 20-25% of the market to buy in.
Part of the charm of the tablet is the portability, when you start hauling around a bunch of crap for it, it loses a lot of that charm.
Part of the charm of the tablet is the portability, when you start hauling around a bunch of crap for it, it loses a lot of that charm.
Not sure that cases is relevant, but how popular are the keyboards? I'd be surprised if it approached 10%, if there's data out there I'd love to hear it.
You wouldn't think it's high but there are so many models out there. The peripheral companies must be seeing sales to continue with these wireless keyboards in all kinds of configurations, some with cases, some foldable, etc.
If keyboard sales are enough to sustain these accessory makers, it should be possible to sustain sales of one controller model. But the SDK has to be provided by Apple I would think. The keyboard makers just have to produce a something that conforms to a standard bluetooth HID keyboard device profile.
But there's probably nothing comparable for control pads.
If keyboard sales are enough to sustain these accessory makers, it should be possible to sustain sales of one controller model. But the SDK has to be provided by Apple I would think. The keyboard makers just have to produce a something that conforms to a standard bluetooth HID keyboard device profile.
But there's probably nothing comparable for control pads.
Tablet games won't stay in the $1 - 5 range forever. It's only a matter of time before a true high quality game is made and ends up selling millions due to whatever reasons, it will be the hot thing for tablets. And then that will open the door for other titles and the market for high end games establishes itself.
I do not believe tablet gaming will end console gaming. The two can co-exist in a happy manner just like the handheld market does. I do see tablets eroding marketshare of handheld gaming for Sony and MS (since tablets are handheld, I throw them in that category) but that means not a lot if the market also doubles in size.
For MS and Sony it is really about continuing to build their online networks and services. Sony did it right I think with the Vita and allowing games bought on PS3 to be downloaded for Vita at no or little additional cost. If they continue that with the PS4 that would be really nice, and will differentiate them in the marketplace. Not so sure how long Vita itself will last, as in 2 years it won't seem as powerful any more, but since it is getting target development from heavy hitters now it should do ok. Microsoft could really stand for establishing Live in the mobile space, and if need to be made available for android then do it. Getting an MMO game that could be great using a controller would be good in retaining customers.
As far as graphics mattering any more. I guess we will have to wait and see for the coming generation of consoles to truly determine that. The fact that console gamers aren't flocking to PC's doesn't mean much, they rarely ever do even during end of a console generation. PC's have always had a cost and complication factor that turns the majority of gamers away. So give gamers a new console with an order of magnitude better graphics and the thing will sell, as long as it has the games. I really hope that both Sony and MS can supply us with an ample upgrade that doesn't leave us wishing for more.
I do not believe tablet gaming will end console gaming. The two can co-exist in a happy manner just like the handheld market does. I do see tablets eroding marketshare of handheld gaming for Sony and MS (since tablets are handheld, I throw them in that category) but that means not a lot if the market also doubles in size.
For MS and Sony it is really about continuing to build their online networks and services. Sony did it right I think with the Vita and allowing games bought on PS3 to be downloaded for Vita at no or little additional cost. If they continue that with the PS4 that would be really nice, and will differentiate them in the marketplace. Not so sure how long Vita itself will last, as in 2 years it won't seem as powerful any more, but since it is getting target development from heavy hitters now it should do ok. Microsoft could really stand for establishing Live in the mobile space, and if need to be made available for android then do it. Getting an MMO game that could be great using a controller would be good in retaining customers.
As far as graphics mattering any more. I guess we will have to wait and see for the coming generation of consoles to truly determine that. The fact that console gamers aren't flocking to PC's doesn't mean much, they rarely ever do even during end of a console generation. PC's have always had a cost and complication factor that turns the majority of gamers away. So give gamers a new console with an order of magnitude better graphics and the thing will sell, as long as it has the games. I really hope that both Sony and MS can supply us with an ample upgrade that doesn't leave us wishing for more.
That they can support a peripheral doesn't mean devs will target it though, like any console peripheral (USB controller support was supposedly added to Droid with 3.1). Not that I disagree with you, as I think Win 8 will be a landmark movement to replace consoles with the tablets and PCs, and Sony are sure to include controller support in PSS certified devices (they have DS3 support on Tablet S). But for those here in the 'tablets are what they are and they won't evolve' camp, your argument doesn't mean games will actually get controller support any more than PS3 supporting Move will see most games support Move. You really want a controller in the box of many tablets, or a concerted effort by hardware or software companies to promote and adopt hardware controllers rather than just having an open option.
Edit: Custom Bluetooth input media on Android enabling a Wii controller 2 years ago. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0yHTxoAVqc
XB360 on Xoom : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Omyv6YzBmA
PS3 controller on Xoom : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy-kTDZrDfI
I still don't understand what you think tablets offers over consoles. Tiny screens, mediocre performance and gimped interface. The only advantage is portability, and if I intend to take do some gaming on the move, the chance of hauling a controller along is *zero*.
I also don't understand why you think Microsoft wants to move console gamers to Windows. XBox is a closed platform, Microsoft sees a tons of revenue from Live and Market (royalties from games), on Windows they only get paid once, for the OS. Then they have to fight for the rest of the money with Valve, Blizzard, E.A. and others.
I see tablets as an accesory to consoles, but not as a replacement.
Cheers
I think that proves you're only looking at now, and not the future.
As I've said, I expect the tablet to plug straight into the TV and be useable exactly as a console, thereby offering exactly the same experience only with less graphics but with more portability and flexibility. FTR my Transformer can do that already. I could get me some emulator games and attach my DS3 and game on it as if it were a SNSE or PS1 or Amiga, so already it's a console from yesteryear. It's going to become far more up to date and play games like PS360 in a portable device (could be paying a console game now in Dungeon Defenders if decs would add controller support). Yes, PS4+XB3 will be better, but the difference between the platforms will diminish over time, such that beyond the next gen I don't see a place for consoles.We are talking 10 years from now - not everyone stopping console gaming, throwing away their PS360s, abandoning next gen and buying iPads tomorrow!
I think that proves you're only looking at now, and not the future.
There is almost two orders of magnitude difference in electric power envelope between consoles and tablets. This translates into a performance difference equal to 8-10 years of development. People are already bitching about current gen console games looking dated (and fleeing back to PC). You think people want to play something resembling XBox 360 games 6-7 years from now ?.
You're thinking people will consolidate not only on a single platform, but a single hardware unit. I think you're wrong. People are moving their data online (DropBox, Skydrive, Google Drive and iCloud) because it enables them to access and share their data from multiple devices.
We might see people consolidating on a platform, be it iOS, Android or Windows because that would allow people to access their games/data/apps from a multitude of hardware devices: phones, tablets, PC and console, - and not think twice about it. There will be much zealot bickering about which of these will be best.
The devices have differing capabilities determined by size and power envelope: phone << tablet << console << PC, with leftmost devices offering a subset of the others.
Cheers
Prophecy2k
Veteran
I think that proves you're only looking at now, and not the future.
We are talking 10 years from now - not everyone stopping console gaming, throwing away their PS360s, abandoning next gen and buying iPads tomorrow!
You know what Shifty, I think this is where we fundamentally disagree. I don't think this will ever happen as long as companies continue to make consoles. The moment people see what PS4+XB3 (or even PS5+XB4) can do, they won't even think twice about hooking up their tablet with sub-PS360-level visuals to their TV. They'll simply buy a PS4+XB3 for their home gaming, and continue to use their tablet for all their other pass-time distractionary needs.
Tablet use, and tablet gaming isn't going to change siginificantly in the next ten years. They're already powerful enough to do what most people want to do on them (a point which took PCs a long time to get to). Even in gaming, the highest selling games on tablets are not even the highest fidelity games. Games like cut the rope and angry birds are so popular because that's what people want to play on their tablets. People don't want to play gears of war and uncharted on them. And current software trends support that. Why should we think that this will change siginificantly in the next ten years? Especially when current attempts at high spec console-like games on tablets haven't met with any considerable success.
I even suspect that within the next two-three years people will wise up to the whole mobile power war and begin to back out. Afterall what software beside games, that is required for the most mainstream tablet user, requires anymore processing power than the current iPad3 now offers. Sh!t is going to plateau real quick imho, as without a software driver people won't even see the need to annually update their tablet HW, leaving the prevailing majority of the tablet installed base sub-current gen HW level (as it currently is).
Yes, when that game is something like a 2D download game. And yes, when it's not some hardcore gamer. And yes, when it's portable (like Vita, or DS) but you can plug it in at home for TV playing. Plus I am advocating a docking station to increase performance for those who want the better experience. That or a compatible box.
No. Throughout this whole thread (and others to boot) I'm saying that we'll converge to software platforms accessed in one of three ways - desktop, tablet/smartphone, and box-under-the-TV. You'd buy software for the platform that'll run on all your Android/iOS/Windows devices. When choosing which hardware to buy, the first port of call is probably going to be tablet as the most versatile of all options. Joe Consumer sin't going to want a console that isn't part of this software ecosystem. And when the console becomes part of that ecosystem, running all apps, then it stops being a dedicated games console designed to have the baddest hardware running to-the-metal games.
I think that proves you're only looking at now, and not the future.
We are talking 10 years from now - not everyone stopping console gaming, throwing away their PS360s, abandoning next gen and buying iPads tomorrow!
Consoles are family entertainment systems. Portable devices even though they may connect to a TV are individually experienced devices.
Consoles have been marketed as entertainment systems for the family and sell the household experience.
The success of consoles like the Wii or peripherals like Kinect are also very much due to the fact that you can enjoy with friends. WiiU is also relying on the same principle.
Portability means, that at some point of time I will need it to do something else on it (probably outside of home) and nobody at home will have access to it while I am away.
You claim tablet advantage over consoles for controlling some type of games. The thing is, tablets outright suck in so many genres where the consoles do great. In those occasions where the tablets do better, consoles play well regardless. A gaming device needs to work well across all types of games.
So you suggest a controller can connect to a tablet as a solution. Well, I can imagine its practicality when its stationary and connected on my TV, but impractical to carry over like a portable gaming console. We cant expect to have experience inconsistency between using it on a train without a controller and using it on my living room with a controller.
And really, what kind of games do you think they will be making on it considering game size, performance and input methods were consoles are evolving?
I see tablets being complementary gaming devices than console substitutes, which will work with consoles. Consoles dont only evolve in performance only but they evolve their gaming experience too with input methods and by working with multiple devices.
Can tablets evolve fast enough to compete there too?
Your experience of playing past console games with controller on tablet shows only that tablets are good with traditional and past console experience when you are treating it as a stationary device
edit: On another note its like claiming that if PS Vita could connect to a TV it would have been a PS3 replacement. Average Joe probably wouldnt have been able to tell a big difference in visuals. Adding to that it has everything a normal controller has, a touch screen and a rear touch panel. This should be an advantage over a console. But the future shows that the experience is augmented by having both work together.
I disagree. The moment people see waht PS4+XB3 can do, the majority will wait until the price drops, with the tablets closing the gap in performance all the time. Then when they have that $200 for a new console, they'll also be eyeing a tablet that isn't as good in the graphics department but has all sorts of other useability, and wondering if maybe they should spend their $200 console budget (factoring in the expensive games) on a better tablet instead.
Your thinking of this back to front. People don't care what the box is necessarily. If people want to play Gears and Uncharted, and those games are only available on tablets, then they'd buy tablet, no? At the moment, those games are only on consoles so consoles are bought to play them. If I could buy a tablet that I could play Cut The Rope on and Uncharted, I'd be in favour. Who wouldn't?!
Also bear in mind that the statistics as ever are very skewed for the big names. Look past the massive takeup of things like Angry Birds and look at the potential market. The Sims sold between 1 and 5 million on Android going by Google Play. That's a good console-market size business. Few console games sell several million. So looking past the few headline grabbers in the first two years of the business, and looking at the maturing business, an install base of hundreds of millions is going to be a draw for devs.
Ha ha! I remember saying the same thing of PCs years ago. "Why does anyone need more power than this?!" And then we get video editing, HD video editing, high quality softsynths, 3D gaming, sterescopic gaming, etc. There is no end to people's ability to consume power. Hell, even simple websites cripple my Core-2-Duo thanks to multiple Flash ads. Then throw in metalanguages, like HTML5, that are make less efficient use of the hardware than native apps. There will always be an increase in performance and in its use - that's human nature.
Not me. I've played it on Vita, and that's already quite a bit better than playing it on any tablet could currently be (perhaps a very new Android with external DS controller excepted). But despite what everyone says, it's not comparable to playing it on the big screen. So until a tablet can dock into the big screen and have that performance, there's no point, no competition. Consoles, by the very nature of not having to include a screen and being less space/weight limited (no battery necessary), should always be able to offer a very competitive bang for the buck.
If, at some point, tablets are powerful enough (or performance becomes totally irrelevant to any significant number of users), then console makers can simply make a tablet that docks. Perhaps there could eventually be a market for a device that can dock, and when it has mains power, will use more of its chips and processor speed than when in 'portable mode' console style.
Note that when you mention The Sims, you are taking a franchise that has traditionally been extremely popular on PC. In that sense you're only confirming that tablets are eating away at the PC 'market'. Note also that Android currently has pretty much no DRM, and piracy issues are already pretty significant: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...to-stick-with-android-despite-9-1-piracy-rate.
Android is already also a device configuration / testing nightmare, so it is very PC like indeed.
I'm not saying there's no hope, and like I said, I expect a boom for a while, but there are limitations to where it can go, and I'm pretty sure we'll see the consoles, tablets, phones and PC settle in their respective parts of the markets. How big each piece of the pie will be in the end though, will remain a big question, for sure. Again, I think tablets are likely to be pretty big, but from what I see now, they still even have a way to go to match up with consoles from 2005 and I just bought what is basically the current best, I think (iPad 3).
Let's look at this another way.
Are the next generation of consoles going to be as successful as the current or previous generations?
Is the growth rate going to be the same for both hardware and software?
Are sales not going to be impacted one bit by all the mobile devices and software being purchased every year?
Are the next generation of consoles going to be as successful as the current or previous generations?
Is the growth rate going to be the same for both hardware and software?
Are sales not going to be impacted one bit by all the mobile devices and software being purchased every year?