The Next-gen Situation discussion *spawn

[Shifty Geezer]

I prefer to judge in terms of systems that mere mortals could afford

For DoctorFouad's argument, I don't think price is really the issue. He's using Crysis as an example of something PS360 could never achieve, and that was only by crazily expensive hardware (until prices dropped, of course).

 

[almighty]

For DoctorFouad's argument, I don't think price is really the issue. He's using Crysis as an example of something PS360 could never achieve, and that was only by crazily expensive hardware (until prices dropped, of course).

Not really, a 9600 GT could.manage the game pretty maxed at 1280x720 or 1680x1050 with shaders on high instead of very high.

My 8800 GT SLI could Max the game out with 2xAA at 1920x1080

And I know that from experience.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Not really, a 9600 GT could.manage the game pretty maxed at 1280x720 or 1680x1050 with shaders on high instead of very high.

That came out in 2008. DoctorFouad was saying 2 months after PS3 launched, Crysis launched and made everything PS360 could do immaterial.

It is strange but console gamers felt the same with the PC game crysis in 2006, they purchased a new highly advanced console (ps3) only to discover a couple of months later that there exists a PC game which cannot run in their console and they wont see anything as graphically advanced in all future years of their conole life....that was frustrating, it killed the enthusiasm for nextgen console graphics right away, even uncharted1 didnt seem that advanced anymore... it was a sad period for console gamers....

As we know PS360 eventually ran Crysis, so this impossibly good game of his needed in 2007 a PC that could render Crysis much better than PS3 eventually ran it to make his point valid. What was the price of building a PC far more capable than PS3 in 2007? I don't think a Core 2 and 7800 GTX was enough, and even if it was, what was the cost?

 

[almighty]

As we know PS360 eventually ran Crysis, so this impossibly good game of his needed in 2007 a PC that could render Crysis much better than PS3 eventually ran it to make his point valid. What was the price of building a PC far more capable than PS3 in 2007? I don't think a Core 2 and 7800 GTX was enough, and even if it was, what was the cost?

You can't really answer that because consoles don't run the same settings and assets...

Crysis on console is appauling compared to the PC version.

And cost I'd a moot point as that PC offers much more functionality then PS3 does.

 

[tuna]

Seriously ? The Saturn port of Quake looked worse than PC software rendering.

Cheers

Yes. That is a very reasonable version.

 

[tuna]

Why are you graphically comparing a fixed track racing game with the first true 3d FPS ever made?

Because Gubbi made the claim that Quake was something current consoles were not capable of and when running it on a 3DFX chip it was the most impressive thing ever.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Because Gubbi made the claim that Quake was something current consoles were not capable of and when running it on a 3DFX chip it was the most impressive thing ever.

And he was correct. No console of the day could handle quake the way a high end pc could and a 3D FPS simply cant be compared to an on rails racer when considering which is more graphically impressive.

 

[pjbliverpool]

What was the price of building a PC far more capable than PS3 in 2007? I don't think a Core 2 and 7800 GTX was enough, and even if it was, what was the cost?

If you're wanting something clearly well beyond PS3 and can wait until October then you're looking at about $400 for the cpu and gpu which gets you a Q6600 and 8800GT.

 

[AlphaWolf]

If you're wanting something clearly well beyond PS3 and can wait until October then you're looking at about $400 for the cpu and gpu which gets you a Q6600 and 8800GT.

So likely somewhere over $1000 for the system.

 

[jonabbey]

CNET has a piece up speculating about Disney (Disney/Apple?) looking at a console:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10797_3-57562108-235/disney-seeks-patent-that-hints-at-gaming-console/

 

[pjbliverpool]

So likely somewhere over $1000 for the system.

If your being cost conscious then around $700 for the whole system. You'd have to make some pretty poor purchasing decisions to spend over $600 on the rest of the system. Not that any objective person would compare the cost of a full pc with all its uses to a games console if they are comparing value for money.

 

[function]

And he was correct. No console of the day could handle quake the way a high end pc could and a 3D FPS simply cant be compared to an on rails racer when considering which is more graphically impressive.

Scud Race ran on Sega's Model 3 arcade hardware, which was massively more powerful than a Voodoo enabled PC. And the cabinets cost something like $4000 (or more for the deluxe cabinets). It's not really a fair comparison - people could actually afford a Voodoo card and it could run a lot more than one game.

 

[function]

Not really, a 9600 GT could.manage the game pretty maxed at 1280x720 or 1680x1050 with shaders on high instead of very high.

My 8800 GT SLI could Max the game out with 2xAA at 1920x1080

And I know that from experience.

My 9800 GT couldn't consistently stay above 30 fps at very high at 1280 x 720. It ran better at 1024 x 768, but still had issues with stuttering (possibly more down to the CPU).

I've said it before and I'll say it again - PC gamers are desensitised to stuttering. Crysis was a bollocks for ticking or stuttering every second or two despite my FX-60 level CPU and (eventually) 4GB of ram. And it wasn't just my PC - it was everyone's PC I saw it on at the time. Average framerate could be around 30 fps (or more) but because of the ticks or stutters it provided an experience far less smooth than the kind of pretty solid 30 fps that console gamers expect.

Console 30 fps is an awful lot nicer than PC no-sync 30 fps.

You can't really answer that because consoles don't run the same settings and assets...

Crysis on console is appauling compared to the PC version.

That's just hyperbole. It's probably doing better than my FX-60 and 7900 GTX (texture quality aside) and it's doing it more smoothly, despite it being an Xbox Live port on a first gen engine etc etc.

Halo 3 four player co-op against the two Scarabs (+ plus tanks, warhogs, mongeese, banshees, the human flying things I can't remember the name of, plus a dozen UNSC troops and a dozen or more covenant) impresses me an awful lot more than any part of Crysis. Which isn't to say a fast PC from 2007 couldn't have handled it all with aplomb (perhaps even my FX-60 level Opteron), but I bet a minimum spec Crysis PC couldn't.

And that's the real power of consoles in their early days - they can target above the minimum specs of most PC games (including Crysis). But with the change in PCs, the increase in integrated graphics power, and the sheer power of Intel CPUs and even AMD stuff like Piledriver, this window is shrinking fast - if it'll even exist at all by the end of 2013.

 

[pjbliverpool]

That's just hyperbole. It's probably doing better than my FX-60 and 7900 GTX (texture quality aside) and it's doing it more smoothly, despite it being an Xbox Live port on a first gen engine etc etc.

The xbox version ran on CryEngine 3 compared with CryEngine 2 on the PC. Huge efficiency gains there by all accounts.

 

[tuna]

a 3D FPS simply cant be compared to an on rails racer when considering which is more graphically impressive.

I just did

 

[Shifty Geezer]

And that's the real power of consoles in their early days - they can target above the minimum specs of most PC games (including Crysis).

This is only relevant in PC only games. If you are writing a PC only game and want the largest audience, you need to target a much lower base spec. Cross-platform titles don't have that issue, and that's the future for PC games. If you're writing a PC game, target the consoles as well and have them as your minimum spec. There isn't going to be a case where the PC target is lower than the console spec and high-end PCs are going massively underutilised.

 

[almighty]

My 9800 GT couldn't consistently stay above 30 fps at very high at 1280 x 720. It ran better at 1024 x 768, but still had issues with stuttering (possibly more down to the CPU

Stuttering is caused by the CPU, lack of VRAM and lack of system RAM.

The only way to get Crysis smooth today on any decent GPU is to run an Intel Core series CPU.

Any other CPU will churn out horrible performance.

And Crysis capped to 30fps with the right CPU is smoother and more consistent then any game I've played on my recently aquired 360.

 

[AlphaWolf]

If your being cost conscious then around $700 for the whole system. You'd have to make some pretty poor purchasing decisions to spend over $600 on the rest of the system. Not that any objective person would compare the cost of a full pc with all its uses to a games console if they are comparing value for money.

Let me guess... you're assuming stealing the OS?

 

[almighty]

So likely somewhere over $1000 for the system.

Lol no, no where near that......

 

[Shifty Geezer]

This isn't a price of a PC thread.