People...you're taking this the wrong way. All your tools will be there - all the creation tools. The items that will be unlocked are things like special hats, vehicles made by MM, little objects like chillies. IE. Extras.
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People...you're taking this the wrong way. All your tools will be there - all the creation tools. The items that will be unlocked are things like special hats, vehicles made by MM, little objects like chillies. IE. Extras.
In other interviews they've given the distinct impression that, afraid of frightening users away with too much complexity, which is a valid concern, they are slowly releasing tools over the length of the campaign. I may be wrong on this, but that's how I've understood it and it makes sense. If they want everyone to create, they need to ween them onto it.
That's how I generally approach things anyway. I take one or two things and explore them to their limits. This teaches me what I can do with them, and helps me understand what other tools are for - because they achieve something the first things can't, or do so much more easily.
I've seen more than enough of LBP though to design terribly complex things already. But that wouldn't be the smartest way to go about it at all. It's much more interesting to think of something original you can do with just one or two of the features, and slowly take it from there.
That's basically how great ideas come into being, I think. Including, incidentally, Little Big Planet ... just look at their early prototype.
I've seen more than enough of LBP though to design terribly complex things already. But that wouldn't be the smartest way to go about it at all. It's much more interesting to think of something original you can do with just one or two of the features, and slowly take it from there.
That's basically how great ideas come into being, I think. Including, incidentally, Little Big Planet ... just look at their early prototype.
inefficient
Veteran
I made this post in this thread last year in May. And today I read that they put this exact idea into the game!
Link: LittleBigPlanet: Make Good Stuff, Get More Space
Sony, If you send me an early copy of LBP, I will not pursue my legal case against you!
upnorthsox
Veteran
I made this post in this thread last year in May. And today I read that they put this exact idea into the game!
Link: LittleBigPlanet: Make Good Stuff, Get More Space
Sony, If you send me an early copy of LBP, I will not pursue my legal case against you!
On that note:
http://www.wonderwallweb.com/story-1337-Little-Big-Planet-Devs-are-watching.html
Funny that they won't accept direct contact for fear of legal repercussions, but they are happy to accept ideas from open fora. I don't see the logistical distinction myself, but maybe there is a legal one?
Here's a good showcase of using the tools, showing the level of customization and how the interface works, specifically adding a rotary force to a pivot/axle. Best bit at 4 minutes. You also hear Stephen Fry's explanations.
http://uk.gamespot.com/video/0/6194281/videoplayerpop?rgroup=e32008_live
Vehicle combat is in I love the interface! Even the tooltips in this game are classy! And the flying is just cute.
http://uk.gamespot.com/video/0/6194281/videoplayerpop?rgroup=e32008_live
Vehicle combat is in
I love the interface! Even the tooltips in this game are classy! And the flying is just cute.I haven't been tracking LBP for weeks. After watching the above video link, I find it hard to classify LBP as a game. This...mm.. thing... is like the Lego of video games, except that each brick is so organic and alive (!). I would like to thank MM for creating such a gem.
I see my family using this as an educational tool for our kid boy.
I see my family using this as an educational tool for our kid boy.
There's some more stuff from Comic Con at YouTube
This one has badguys that pace back and forth, kill on touch (electrocution), and can be killed by jumping on their heads. Sound familiar? Also has a huge rotating bit to the level.
This one has a puzzle where the right stickers need to be pasted onto objects to create and activate a puppet thing.
That's gonna be good for quizzes and educational levels, I'm sure.
This one has badguys that pace back and forth, kill on touch (electrocution), and can be killed by jumping on their heads. Sound familiar?
Also has a huge rotating bit to the level.This one has a puzzle where the right stickers need to be pasted onto objects to create and activate a puppet thing.
That's gonna be good for quizzes and educational levels, I'm sure.
Heh. I think they should dramatize the death sequence. It creates a comical effect and makes it more painful for the players to fail. They can randomize it a little so that it's less repetitive/predictable.
In general, it should be possible for the players to add drama to the level. I think it is important for orchestrating emotion.
In general, it should be possible for the players to add drama to the level. I think it is important for orchestrating emotion.
This one has badguys that pace back and forth, kill on touch (electrocution), and can be killed by jumping on their heads. Sound familiar?
What I like about those enemies is they more clearly show how to integrate the AI brains into mechanical designs for extra challenges. The brains are alternately exposed or hidden alongside deadly electrified material.
There's another great video from the same level here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysn6w82eEfQ
Shows another enemy type, one with multiple brains, all of which need to be collected before the enemy dies. You could have really complicated enemies with multiple brains that are more or less easy to capture..
The new Edge preview explains this well. It's a general 'lock-and-key' switch type that you can use. You can define what sticker or stickers will trigger the switch. You could use it for all sorts of stuff e.g. rewarding your player with a sticker in one level which they can use to unlock a puzzle in another.
There's also another kind of similar switch type which ought to be very useful - magnetic switches. There are two parts to the switch, and you can attach them to different objects. When you bring the two together, the switch triggers. Again, it's a kind of lock-and-key mechanic..matching objects together to trigger the switch.
Between those two, and the level keys for linking levels together, I think a whole world of branching levels and even branching narrative possibilities are opened up.
Between the mechanical bits, the various switch types and AI brain types, I think we should see some mind-boggling contraptions, and very complex contraptions
The beauty of which is they'll be built from these really simple fundamental building blocks.
Here's an Alex Evans interview (no game footage) noteworthy for a few points...
"When you buy there game, there are like 60 big levels, 60 mini-levels, 60 tutorials."
I don't imagine these are exact numbers, but he is making the point that there's lots of content on the disk.
A betatester has spent his time creating different drum machines, 'ten or eleven', not a game at all!
The E3 Sony Financials level was created in one day, rush job a week before the show! Tweaked a second day to 'correct the number'. That shows what a day's effort amounts to.
"When you buy there game, there are like 60 big levels, 60 mini-levels, 60 tutorials."
I don't imagine these are exact numbers, but he is making the point that there's lots of content on the disk.
A betatester has spent his time creating different drum machines, 'ten or eleven', not a game at all!
The E3 Sony Financials level was created in one day, rush job a week before the show! Tweaked a second day to 'correct the number'. That shows what a day's effort amounts to.
One of those vids mentioned equipping weapons onto vehicles too, suggesting SilkWorm and similar are doable. The nature of the beast is actually very different than it first appeared, and I wonder if this is the nature of the future? That is, the game was unveiled as what see as a platformer with customization. We all wondered what extras would appear like 'baddies'. The devs have added all this gubbins, and spoken of aiming not for a 'platform game' but a 'game creation engine'. I think their intention from the very beginning was to open up game development to everyone (I think there's an interview out there saying just this). The stuff we're seeing, the features at least beyond the clearly typified levels that form a cohesive feel, are offering quite an array of possibilities.
How does this affect development and point to the future? 20 years ago, to write a simple game of Manic Minor required complex understanding of computers and coding. 10 years ago, tools like AMOS, Blitz etc. provided high-level access, so those same games could be created with a fraction of the understanding and effort (and actually look better!), but of course still needed a specialised understanding. LBP offers the same opportunity to create those same game ideas, but without the needing for programming know-how. It's not just a game, but a development platform. Creating games has progressed from punching in hexadecimal numbers to writing assembler to writing C to using higher level languages to construction engines like SEUCK to LBP, the highest level of game engine!
20 years on from now, will technology be sufficiently advanced that an engine can exist where the user can throw in objects, associations, animations from a big library, and recreate the games we have now without having to worry about how it works? Will the future of game development tend towards complex engines offering a simple WYSIWYG (or should that be WYSIWYP?) interfaces? If UE3 can handle an assortment of games, how much work is needed to create an interactive engine interface?
The way LBP is structured seems to suggest this is indeed possible. Standard mechanics of rendering, physics, materials etc. are generic across titles, based on the real world, so sharing those features within an engine across all titles makes sense. That would leave the developer to worry themselves solely with content. It wouldn't take much adaptation to create a vertical/top-down variation on LBP, nor to add player functions in the form of equpiable tools activate by a keypress. Then Bionic Commando, Commando, 1942, and everything else is doable in the one engine. The engine is limited by technology, but as technology advances those limits can be shifted. If we had enough power to simulate the real world with exactness, and just deal in materials and structures, leaving the engine to determine clouds of dust from wheels, damage from bullets and rays, ambient lighting etc., we could just create content.
So I wonder where it'll go and how empowered Joe Public will eventually become.
How does this affect development and point to the future? 20 years ago, to write a simple game of Manic Minor required complex understanding of computers and coding. 10 years ago, tools like AMOS, Blitz etc. provided high-level access, so those same games could be created with a fraction of the understanding and effort (and actually look better!), but of course still needed a specialised understanding. LBP offers the same opportunity to create those same game ideas, but without the needing for programming know-how. It's not just a game, but a development platform. Creating games has progressed from punching in hexadecimal numbers to writing assembler to writing C to using higher level languages to construction engines like SEUCK to LBP, the highest level of game engine!
20 years on from now, will technology be sufficiently advanced that an engine can exist where the user can throw in objects, associations, animations from a big library, and recreate the games we have now without having to worry about how it works? Will the future of game development tend towards complex engines offering a simple WYSIWYG (or should that be WYSIWYP?) interfaces? If UE3 can handle an assortment of games, how much work is needed to create an interactive engine interface?
The way LBP is structured seems to suggest this is indeed possible. Standard mechanics of rendering, physics, materials etc. are generic across titles, based on the real world, so sharing those features within an engine across all titles makes sense. That would leave the developer to worry themselves solely with content. It wouldn't take much adaptation to create a vertical/top-down variation on LBP, nor to add player functions in the form of equpiable tools activate by a keypress. Then Bionic Commando, Commando, 1942, and everything else is doable in the one engine. The engine is limited by technology, but as technology advances those limits can be shifted. If we had enough power to simulate the real world with exactness, and just deal in materials and structures, leaving the engine to determine clouds of dust from wheels, damage from bullets and rays, ambient lighting etc., we could just create content.
So I wonder where it'll go and how empowered Joe Public will eventually become.
One can think of LBP as a very high level game development tool. 'A game about making games' is one of my favourite descriptions of it.
Of course, higher level = less low-level control and flexibility.
Not every type of game can be made in LBP (although I agree it would be trivial to allow top-down scrolling..indeed it may be possible to mimic that even with just LBP as it is now).
Higher level tools start to win out when low level details of efficiency etc. start to matter less. It may be a while before we have such an excess of compute power at our disposal that efficiency no longer matters, but yeah, I think we could hit a point where people are visually building the most sophisticated games rather than working at a compiler. Or the benefits of working at a compiler and making everything yourself are just too narrow and too inobvious.
Of course, we can't auto-generate creative talent, so even when we hit that point, you'll still have an awful lot of crap games being made by more and more people. But at least the graphics/physics etc. will be as perfect as they can be
Of course, higher level = less low-level control and flexibility.
Not every type of game can be made in LBP (although I agree it would be trivial to allow top-down scrolling..indeed it may be possible to mimic that even with just LBP as it is now).
Higher level tools start to win out when low level details of efficiency etc. start to matter less. It may be a while before we have such an excess of compute power at our disposal that efficiency no longer matters, but yeah, I think we could hit a point where people are visually building the most sophisticated games rather than working at a compiler. Or the benefits of working at a compiler and making everything yourself are just too narrow and too inobvious.
Of course, we can't auto-generate creative talent, so even when we hit that point, you'll still have an awful lot of crap games being made by more and more people. But at least the graphics/physics etc. will be as perfect as they can be
Alex Evans hints at a new surprise feature to be revealed soon:
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=204431
Typically when people think of LBP, they think of platforming. But in the first Edge preview, they talked about how they might expand beyond that..that platforming was just the most obvious application. I think expanding into another type of game could elicit the reaction he's talking about there. The simplest I can think of would be a tool for switching the perspective to top-down..
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=204431
Typically when people think of LBP, they think of platforming. But in the first Edge preview, they talked about how they might expand beyond that..that platforming was just the most obvious application. I think expanding into another type of game could elicit the reaction he's talking about there. The simplest I can think of would be a tool for switching the perspective to top-down..
Ah, awesome. I'm hoping too that they expand to different gametypes and perspectives (shooters? adventure games?), or even 3d. But we'll see what happens. Nothing but goodness from these guys, so I'm willing to just wait and see ... Or a true 2D version for the PSP that uses the same assets? Probably not because that's actually been discussed.
Or a true 2D version for the PSP that uses the same assets? Probably not because that's actually been discussed.upnorthsox
Veteran
Obviously platforming was the easiest to implement but imo fight levels are right behind it and I could easily see an SSBB or Ninja type fighter with sackboys in character costumes battling it out. If you can do combat, then I also see no reason why rpg's couldn't be done too. You'd probably be limited to storybook style storylines but I think that'd be a fair compromise and one that would be easy for many to put together. Now if you could create your own cutscenes too..........
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