The Last of Us (Part) 2 [PS4]

Discussion in 'Console Gaming' started by Clukos, Dec 3, 2016.

Tags:
?

Will Sony delay release of The Last Of Us 2 because of CoronaVirus Pandemic?

Poll closed Apr 2, 2020.
  1. Yes.

    1 vote(s)
    100.0%
  2. No.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Don't be silly.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. milk

    milk Like Verified
    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2012
    Messages:
    3,497
    Likes Received:
    3,429
    I definetely agree with you that big AAA studios spend too much time on stuff that adds little value to the game (comparatively to their development cost) while gamers, the industry and the studio itself would probably benefit from them releasing more games more often with better focus on time spent where ir matters.

    I don't think though, that this kind of detail is what I'd call time badly spent. This probably tool relatively little time, created a system that is usefull throughout the whole game, advances research in ways futire games will benefit, and arguably SAVES time in audio/voice acting/animation by subtly conveying character's physical and emotional state proceduraly without requiring hand-made one-off chatter/animations to achieve the same effect.

    What I think is the real time waster in these big projects is menial art production work. And I blame a culture of complecency with brute forcing art. How do we get hours of cutscene animation done? Hire more animators, outsource, do over time! How are we gonna make this scene with a huge crowd of people with different faces and clothes? Hire more modelers, outsorce do overtime!

    TLoU2 is full of examples of that. It is indeed kind of cool that they actually made individual animations for Ellie upgrading her weapons at the bench, but honestly, it is not nearly as cool as if the game had been released 6 months earlier by ND choosing their battles batter and they had started their next project already.

    I sit here thinking of the cutscene featured in one of their early trailers, with dozens of npcs dancing, and a damn kiss (must be hell to animate properly) and in the final game, it plays in the very end, after we as players had already heard about everything thar happened that night half a dozen diffent times. It was absolutely not needed, and must have taken months of man-hours, if not a years.

    I imagine devs are doing this in part "because they can". Most devs have had to carefully choose what problems to tackle for ages, and I feel some are trying to to strech their legs and see how far they can push themselves through sheer numbers. But I hope most have gotten that out of their system and feel more inclined to pursue clever ways to "work smarter, not harder" going foward.
     
    orangpelupa and DSoup like this.
  2. DSoup

    DSoup meh
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    13,244
    Likes Received:
    8,758
    Location:
    London, UK
    And in deference to this, I did say if this was something that was sandwiched between other tasks and filled time that otherwise would have been idle, I have no problem with it.

    And I see the value in allowing people an opportunity of working on pet projects or things that particular interest them, this is good for motivation.
     
    milk likes this.
  3. Daozang

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,048
    Likes Received:
    350
    Location:
    Athens
    It has to do with what you set to accomplish. They modeled a stadium built as a city, that you only see once.
    The game is the sum of its parts.
    And If the goal was indeed the end result, they must have shot for the stars to deliver something this ambitious...
    Imagine, how much actually never made it in the game.

    My guess is, that with tools always evolving, we will see bigger projects for less effort.
    But if the end goal is to get as close to the limits of what one can accomplish with the technology at his disposal, the effort will always be enormous.
    I think that ND are clearly going for as much realism as they can get.
    And even at PS6 level hardware, (if there will be such a thing) the struggle will be there all the same.
     
    Xbat and DSoup like this.
  4. DSoup

    DSoup meh
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    13,244
    Likes Received:
    8,758
    Location:
    London, UK
    I think you only ever see most locales in Jackson only once as well and that also has a crazy amount of detail. But I'm drawing a line between spending time on world building, as in things which are right in your path to establish how life survives and tiny subtle details that many/most people will never spot and do not add to the world, story or gameplay.
     
    Daozang likes this.
  5. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    8,525
    Likes Received:
    1,899
    That makes me remember that frozen II movie got tons of ridiculously detailed animation. Heck, even the bed are soft and bounce and deform properly!

    But maybe these crazy details are actually a good way to motivate the workers to do their best? Even better if it can be reused or adapted for other stuff.

    Bungie is one of the best at reusing stuff. Copy paste edit. And it results in a bunch of weird bugs haha.

    But ND usually is the opposite. They do ridiculous amounts of manual works that only be used very few times or even just once.
     
  6. steveOrino

    Regular

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2010
    Messages:
    495
    Likes Received:
    162
    It's harder and harder to stand out these days. ND has a reputation to maintain not only for studio prestige but also from a consumer relevancy standpoint. People need to talk about ANY product weeks and beyond to gain that all important mind share in a sea of cheap/plentiful entertainment constantly attracting eyeballs every which way. So if building a gigantic stadium you see once is what it takes then you can bet they sure as hell are going to do it. Because not only do they need to prop up their game on a gigantic pedestal they also have to do it for an entire platform that needs to stand out for the business to be relevant. IMO you cannot compare SIE (or whatever they are going to call it now) studios to the EA's, T2 and UBIs of the world because Sony produces these games as loss leaders to get people to buy into the platform ecosystem which is why (thankfully, so far......) you see very little if any micro transactions and different tiers of "editions" to buy to access all the content. Personally, games like this are the only reason I keep paying the platform tax.
     
    Daozang, Xbat and DSoup like this.
  7. Daozang

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,048
    Likes Received:
    350
    Location:
    Athens
    At some point, the difference between crossing the uncanny valley or staying in it, will be in those minute details, that most won't actually notice, but in a subconscious level make or break the end result.
    The groundwork required is simply overwhelming.
    But if, this is their end goal, it is, (given the current and perhaps even future technological constraints) unavoidable.
     
    DSoup likes this.
  8. DSoup

    DSoup meh
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    13,244
    Likes Received:
    8,758
    Location:
    London, UK
    This is a very good point.
     
    Daozang and Arwin like this.
  9. deepbrown

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2007
    Messages:
    3,063
    Likes Received:
    13
    I completely disagree that this particular technology was a waste of time. Adding physics based toilet seats, yes, but this no .

    You are playing these characters throughout the game - the game is about realism of human emotion, and tension. The quickest and most efficient way to share a character's emotion is through the sound of their breathing. The fact it is procedural also means that it may save time in future games. Also as it's linked to animation I expect this research will be highly influential in the industry.

    Devs want to create realism and to have a system that conveys the stress of the character in a non-repetitive way is highly useful for the industry. But to add and be clear - The Last Of Us is THE game where this tech makes the most sense and impact. It would not be anywhere as impactful in the noisy world of Uncharted. But in the quiet, creepy world of The Last Of Us where the character is stressed and often needs to hold their breath to avoid being seen - it creates incredible immersion. I noticed it when playing and before seeing this information.
     
    Unknown Soldier and DSoup like this.
  10. DSoup

    DSoup meh
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    13,244
    Likes Received:
    8,758
    Location:
    London, UK
    We can disagree in peace! :yes:
     
  11. deepbrown

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2007
    Messages:
    3,063
    Likes Received:
    13
    Just as long as I can't hear you breathing.
     
    Daozang, DSoup and Unknown Soldier like this.
  12. PSman1700

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2019
    Messages:
    3,168
    Likes Received:
    1,215
    Unknown Soldier likes this.
  13. Xbat

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    1,532
    Likes Received:
    1,154
    Location:
    A farm in the middle of nowhere
    DSoup and BRiT like this.
  14. Globalisateur

    Globalisateur Globby
    Veteran Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2013
    Messages:
    3,594
    Likes Received:
    2,330
    Location:
    France
    This should have never happened. They must have received so much complaints about the awful aiming. The controls and aiming in the first game (particularly in the remaster on PS4) were basically perfect. But why, why did they botch the camera and aiming with so much unwanted acceleration ? Unfathomable stuff.
     
    PSman1700 likes this.
  15. Xbat

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    1,532
    Likes Received:
    1,154
    Location:
    A farm in the middle of nowhere
    In my opinion it adds to the tension in a game like this. The characters aren't Navy seals.
     
  16. Unknown Soldier

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2002
    Messages:
    2,794
    Likes Received:
    459
    https://www.dualshockers.com/the-last-of-us-part-ii-most-completed-ps4-game/

    For comparison, check out the completion rates of other PS4 games:
    • Final Fantasy VII Remake – 53.3%
    • God of War – 51.8%
    • Marvel’s Spider-Man – 50.7%
    • Uncharted: The Lost Legacy – 50.3%
    • Detroit: Become Human – 49%
    • Ghost of Tsushima – 38.2%
    • Horizon Zero Dawn – 34.5%
    • Days Gone – 34%
    • Death Stranding – 29.3%
    • Red Dead Redemption II – 28.6%
     
    DSoup and iroboto like this.
  17. Globalisateur

    Globalisateur Globby
    Veteran Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2013
    Messages:
    3,594
    Likes Received:
    2,330
    Location:
    France
    They probably wanted to play until the end hoping the whole thing would be just a dream?
     
    Karamazov and DSoup like this.
  18. Grace Saunders

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2005
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    9
    Some reviewers really discredited this game. I don't particularly agree. I think the story is a bit of a disappointment when you put it beside the original, I guess, but the graphics and gameplay in general is the best the PS4 can squeeze out. The animal AI was also incredibly realistic.

    Some fans think this game was based on shock value, and gore, and while that may have been the case, I think post apocalyptic games and films aren't supposed to be all cheery cheerful. It's like The Walking Dead. People you like keep on surviving. Should that keep on happening, it becomes too obvious that main characters end up like they are immune to death, because they are so beloved. When they finally die, it hits you hard. That just means they've done their job well enough to incite that kind of emotional reaction.
     
    NewRedGuard and Unknown Soldier like this.
  19. BoardBonobo

    BoardBonobo My hat is white(ish)!
    Veteran

    Joined:
    May 30, 2002
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    239
    Location:
    SurfMonkey's Cluster...
    I thought it was a fantastic game and it managed to press all the right emotional buttons for me. And I freely admit that me and emotions have a long distance relationship at the best of times :D But:

    I weep for you,' the Walrus said:
    I deeply sympathize.'
    With sobs and tears he sorted out
    Those of the largest size,
    Holding his pocket-handkerchief
    Before his streaming eyes.

    That was my baggage after finishing LOU2 - it's been a long ride and no one wins when emotions are the driving force.
     
  20. jayco

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2006
    Messages:
    1,474
    Likes Received:
    815
    So, as a huge fan that doesn't own a PS4 but played the first one. Is the game worth it? Will it ruin my memories?

    I really though back then that this game didn't need a sequel. I was so disappointed with MGS4 and I don't want to live through that again.
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...