The Last of Us (Part) 2 [PS4]

Ellie's final moment with the guitar is one of the strokes of brilliance in this game's story among a sea of meh. I have nothing against it. Contrarily, I love it. My point is they could have weaved it into the plot without a that whole epilogue that feels completely out of place and out of PACE. In fact, I feel that's just one of the many plot points that could have been weaved within the story much more gracefully. The plot severely lacks FLOW.

 

Ironically, I actually really liked the 8th season of GoT. I watched it very recently. I had given up on the series after season 7 which I really really hated. The ice zombies were the most boring thing I’d ever seen and so not what that show is about.

The 8th season however was all about the people again with all their flaws and shortcomings and good and bad sides. The potential for this particular ending had always been there and was foreshadowed several times. The series played it well and it could always have gone either way, but it is totally in character for this series to go in this direction.

Pretty much the same for TloU. I totally don’t mind reading spoilers for it. And yeah, definitely not necessary for everyone to like the same thing. I will just have to wait for something new. I would like something in-between this and something like Uncharted. Something with real pain but also real happiness and very sharp wit. And with really cool and stylish enemies. Give me the weird, supernatural extravagant enemies from MGS over this any time.

I actually expected a different ending. Spoilers are tricky on mobile so I’ll write it down another time.

 

What hyperbolic media? The ones who gave the game a metascore of 96? Or truly independent youtube reviews?

Well in my case it isn't anything nearly as drastic as that. It's just the general covid situation constantly fucking up everything from not being able to be with friends to vacation plans going down the drain to just feeling exhausted all the time (working from home while taking care of our little children drained years from my life expectancy, I'm sure).


Perhaps there's a bit of a bad luck factor on Naughty Dog's side, who decided to make a game with a super depressing story back in 2015 but couldn't predict they'd be releasing their game in a time when people are grasping at straws for some positivity in their lives.
Probably a bit like the inverse of Animal Crossing New Horizons, a game essentially about doing menial tasks that became a super hit because it's cute and happy and you can go outside and do stuff.

 

Both. The people who were publishing preview impressions two weeks before the game was released and limited embargo-limited reviews in terms of story/content a week before.

Which independent reviews stood out to you?

 

Ok, non-apologetic *SPOILER*

Spoiler

here but you get to throw a squeaky octopus for a dog! As many times as you like! That's as good as gaming gets. There are indeed many moments of joy and happiness, humour, jokes and laugher. It's simply that nobody has chosen to spoil those moments, nor some of the other challenges that the game presents the player later on.

(Mod: If it's a spoiler, please put it in spoilers. Better safe than sorry.)

There are so many cool or funny lines in this game but that doesn't change it from being the post-mushroom-apocalypse.

 

I personally thought

Spoiler

Ellie's birthday present was the best part of the game.

Mod: Spoiler everything

 

The one I posted from boogie.

The problem with gamespot, IGN etc. is that their obligation lies mostly with their gaming-related advertisers, invitations to events, industry networking for exclusive stories, etc.
Boogie's obligation is with his audience, and sometimes with shaving razor companies that couldn't care less if he gives out a negative review to one of the most expensive games with the most amount of money spent on marketing of 2020.

 

Great points. Specially about Uncharted. Uncharted 3 central point was Drake's obsession getting out of hand and hurting him and his loved ones. Ok. Then they rehashed the SAME central theme for U4. And now AGAIN in TLoU2... How many more games does ND feel they need to make before they start getting interested in other stuff?

Reggarding Story vs. Storytelling

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I would like to break this even further.
I think this game has good storytelling from a micro level, but bad at the macro.
I believe the plot itself, despite a little clichè and shallow, could have been turned into an interesting narrative overall had the macro-scale story-telling been handled better. As I said, I feel like it lacked flow, but also, the pacing is all over the place, not just gameplay-wise, but narativelly. The part of story telling they got right is the ability to develop character as you play the game, ans sprinkling exposition through the environment and banter. Basically, the craftsmanship ND has been developing for the past decades. But the manner in which they've established the main plot was bloated, a bit forcefull and contrived. It lacked ellegance throughout.

The good: The development of Joe and Ellie's relationship flashbacks was great. They adressed the confrontation of Ellie well too. The o shit moment with the guitar at the end was really cool. The development of Abby's relationship with the Scar kids was really cool too. Those too kids were very likeable characters as well.

But the best part, in my opinion, was the way we re-meet Ellie as Abby in the cinema was a very powerfull moment too, because you live it the first time through Ellie's eyes, thinking she is just a WoLF being a WoLF, comming to get the intruder who's been killing the participants of Joel's execution. Yet, when you do it the first time you know Abby has been doing a whole other different thing, she was not even aware that Ellie had been wrecking havock in town, Abby had just gone through hell and back: she was almost hanged to death, she infiltrated the Scar Island, developed a friendship with the kids, became an enemy of WLF itself, considered leaving Washington altogether with the kids and her friend, and all that only to find said friend murdered, all because of Ellie's much shallower pursuit oblivious to how that city was going through WAY MORE troubled times than her petty grievances (never forget death is a constant lurker in this world, and people loose loved ones all the fucking time, Ellie is not fucking special) in my opinion, that was the strongest part of the game. After you hang out with Abby, and you live through her considerably more noble objectives: returning the favor to the kids that saved her, despite them being from an enemy faction, learning of their hardships, and learning to develop empathy, going back to Ellie and her gang just reminds you of how bitter pieces of shit they really are. I know I'm probably in the minority here, but I felt great about kicking the shit out of Ellie's ass as Abby at that moment. She had it fucking coming.

Now, having said that, I felt the whole "turns out the people you saw as enemies were other human beings just like you all along, and the story looks very different from their point of view" twist mind-bogglinly played out and predictable. I feel insulted by the way this game tries to make this be a big epiphany when I saw it from the very beginning. For people like me, the whole thing feels like an arrogant and self-righteous exercise in restating the obvious in the most demeaning and paternalistic way.

Anyways, I feel they rushed stuff that could have had more time to breathe and given the proper emotional weight for the later payoff, while they've prolongued many other parts that did little to progress the story. They've allowed themselves to take hours in fetch-quests likes plots (ellie finds a lead, kills one of the WoLFs, goes back to the cinema, Next day another lead, kills it, backs to the cinema...) or (Abby goes get medicine, comes back to aquarium. Now goes to the island, now back to aquarium...) a lot of these could have been merged into single large marathons. Those were mostly sections that advanced the plot very little. They are mainly just excuses for more opportunities for gameplay. I just don't see why they felt like they had to resort to that when there were enough oportunity to get content out of the game without having to stretch those moments.

I felt like a lot of the characterisation of the main protagonists AND the universe set up in the first game went out the window too.
Ellie became a cold blooded bad bitch, when in the first game she was an idealistic humanitarian who felt like was living on borrowed time. Joe's brother too became this blood seeking assassin, when in the first game they made it a point that one of the larger divergences between him and Joel is that he was not willing to be limitlessly cruel and selfish for the sake of his own survival like Joel was. I don't see how those can be the same people. Another thing that was so hard to swallow is how unthrettening the country itself seems to have become all of a sudden. In the first title, when Joel and Tess first hear of the mission to take Ellie across america they call it a suicide mission. In this game, Ellie and her girlfriend go all the way to seattle on their own, infiltrate this occupied city undetected, all behind Joel's brother who did that alone just before, and are also then followed by the asian dude who also does all that, and all of them survive all those perils like it's nothing. (ok, the asian dude die, but not because of zombies or the WoLFs themselves, but by Abby, who at that point was also a crazy lone independent ranger impossibly surviving this town right in the middle of all the crossfire from the faction war for territory) In one of the flashbacks we see Ellie go back to the firefly hospital by herself too. In the first game, she went there with Joel and both almost drawned to death (ironically, they only survived because they were saved by the fireflies. Just remembered that now. One more reason why Abby did nothing wrong)
Later Abby manages to survive the trip all the way to California with Lev, then Joe's brother sets out to do the same like its a trip to Disneyland, all while he has a limp and one less eye. (I get that this is kind of the point, but when characters keep setting out to these dangerous trips on their own all the time it completely looses its meaning) Ellie does the same, on her own, and manages to get back, on her own again. Hell, I had already found the Fireflies trip to find Joel on their settlement for the sole purpose of murdering him hard to believe. Is the world of TLoU dangerous or not after all? Is humanity struggling to survive or not?

They also failed at making Abby and her pals into likeable characters. Again, I say this as a person who was A-OK with seeing Joe live though the fate he created for himself. I don't hate her because she killed Joe, nor because she later tried to kill Ellie. I hate her because she is a boring person. That simple. Her AND her friends are boooooriiing. Hell, they are even ugly. Their faces are forgetable and un-expressive. All of them. Her doctor father couldn't have a more forgettable and generic personality. And then her boyfriend is a clone of the dad. She is a shy, uninteresting, unfunny bland girl, and her boyfriend is a uninteresting unfunny wuss that is crawling in the mud for the boring girl. God damn it, ND, to get characters THIS unlikable you have to do it on purpose. Then ND pulls the cheap trick of having them like the dogs that earlier you were killing to try and make me like her more. Yes, I saw through your "ingenious" device there Neil, and it was not as clever as you seem to think it was. I think the preggie Shelley Duvall nurse said it best in her line akin to "don't you think your sudden act of kindness is gonna make me like you now" in another moment of Neil thinking he is oh-clever nodding to the player there. I guess that was meant to resonate with those that would hate Abby for killing Joe, which was not my case, but still resonated with me because I didn't like her simply because she was a bland and uninteresting company, and it always made the gameplay moments with her more painful because I just never felt glad to have her around.

And finally, I just think the hole thing gives humanity too little credit. I can't see actual people, put in situations like those of the characters of TLoU2, taking any of the decisions those characters took in this game. I don't think actual people are this two-dimensional, blood-lustful, let alone that competent as professional assassins. I also think in a world that deprived of modern conforts, people would focus much more in taking care of their community, avoiding unnecessary risks, and seeking peace to take on so many ambitious revenge seeking campaings. It just feels juvenile and disconnected from reality. the first game had its share of Hollywoodish fantastical romantization of the apocalipse and convenient plot contrievances, but this game is on a whole other level of fantasy. It throws realism in the trash, and for the sake of cruelty and cynicism. It gets so exploitative I was almost feeling dirty at points. The final confrontation at the beach even reminded me of MGS4 last boss fight. And one does not want to be compared to THAT sopa-opera of a moment, but that is what TLoU2 chose to end on, just more grotesque and gory. Ugh, feels like it was written by an edgy teen, not a grown adult.

 

Spoiler

Now as predictable and mundane I though the whole "moral of the story" Neil concocted here was, after atching the response of many gamers on-line, I'm surprised to learn that despite all that being obvious and cliché to me, there indeed are many idiots who don not understand the message, so in a way Drukman does have a point in trying to convey that message. But than he failed them too, because he did not convince them. So it ended up being a story that goes over the head of idiots, and feels lame to non-idiots. What a major fail huh. And I don't blame the idiots entirely. The hole thing did feel very paternalistic to me. I felt like the game was trying to teach me something the whole time. Just, fuck-off game. I'm ok with a game making me think, or me learning something through an experience. But this was more of an exercise in passively being hammered a lecture instead of being invidted to think.

 

Wow, this guy said it best. His first point is the only one I don't agree with. It boils down to "waaa waaa, I like this character and I think the game should have more of him, and I had a very rigid and specific expectation of who was gonna be in there and it didn't materialize, and I can't understand stories that have unexpected twists that go against my expectations" I don't give two shits to people like that.

But then, absolutely EVERY OTHER point he makes is right on the money. The progression of plot points is a mess. The tone is less multi-faceted than the original. And it makes you scream at the TV asking why for things that don't make sense from neither the player's perspective, nor the narrative's nor the character's.

 

The plot itself isn't too wierd nor is it out of the ordinary.
The point that people hold it to high regard is

Spoiler

quite literally the invocation of empathy for both sides.
Not sure why you even felt it was a lesson? It's a Ellie/Abby's story and we're put in a ride with them for better or for worse.
My litmus test is if you find yourself pulling your punches in the two boss fights, and not simply rooting for Ellie or Abby in particular, then ND has done a great job inducing the that.

 

You're one foot deep in the "paid reviews" territory.

 

For people who have already finished the game this is a good watch.

 

I haven't finished the game, so I cannot watch his review yet.
But I think he was already negative about the game well before the release date.

Youtubers have an obligation to clicks, expanding audiences and their primary concern is not to alienate their base.
For the ones with a small audience, the easiest way to grow is to jump on the controversy of the month. Easy and steady clicks.
For medium sized, they have to play their cards right, and please everyone whenever they can, taking into account the risk associated case by case.
Only youtubers with huge audiences can actually be themselves and not give a crap, (and even then, it is not a given).

As for audiences.
Their opinion is the most unquantifiable due to the way user reviews work.
The game has a metacritic score that mostly consists (primarily of) ones and zeros, and (to a lesser degree) nines and tens.
It is sitting right now at 4 something.

I'll use the dreaded example here, of a movie most of us, are familiar with.
The last jedi, was not a great film.
But, it was not a 1 out of 10 film.
Even this,
https://www.imdb.com/video/vi3198224153?playlistId=tt1316037&ref_=tt_pr_ov_vi
is not a 1 out of 10... (but it is veeeeeeery close)

Review bombing does not make anything abysmally bad.
And if the "audience" cannot understand, (or doesn't want to) that you cannot give those two movies the same score, I have no clue as to why their opinion holds any value.

 

Entitlement.

I get flak by telling people to not just watch a stream and think they understand this game.
Or by telling people to at least finish the game before posting harsh criticism on it.
This game requires your engagement for it to work, and it pretty much requires it to be unspoiled.

 

i just realized you can pluck one string from any string, strum just half string, etc just like a real guitar, with DS4 touchpad.

turns out the killer app for DS4 touch pad is TLOU2 minigame. Hopefully ND will add it on the title-screen in future update (or its already there after completing the game?)

 

At @milk, I watched through a bunch more skipping ahead here and there and I think we are completely on the same page.

I did see the scene that most people love and that was well done. And yes there are a few more scenes like that, but they are a bit too obvious in this context. If it was a movie you would know exactly why this was there and laugh about it.

Hearing about the guitar though, as someone who plays, I like!

 

The flash back with the muscular got reaaaally boring. It employs the same tricks ND used again and agaij and again

 

I don't know, I really don't get why people just feel so strongly about this, in the grand scheme of things.

I liked the game a lot and I could see exactly what ND were trying to do, even though some 'bits' were very much 'on the nose' even to me, and I can see how a certain type of person would be triggered by those.

The Inception-style flashbacks inside flashbacks got a bit annoying and, like a lot of other games, the slow pace of some sections were also a bit annoying but they also provided a well needed respite for a very intense game.

Both me and my partner (who I think loved the game much more than I did, as he's still playing it to collect everything while I already went back to gittin gud in DS3) have NEVER needed so many 'breaks' from playing a game, as things got so intense at times. That's a good thing.

But in as far as people hating the game because of some of the plot choices, and comparing this to GOT S8?? How ludicrous. Sorry but that is not comparable at all.