The Intel Execution in [2024]

[Seanspeed]

Intel has been, IMO, knowingly selling defective CPUs for over a decade. I hope this costs them billions.

What's insane not just about your comment, but about most of the rhetoric surrounding this stuff, is that all these 'reports' seem to be only about the most highest, niche tier of Raptor Lake parts. The 13900k and 14900k parts. It should hardly even be surprising that such ultra juiced parts have especially high failure rates(and which isn't acceptable, dont get me wrong), but the way people are talking about things, they're acting like ALL Intel parts are having such issues, which there's genuinely no evidence for at all.

Do you have AMD stock or something? Is your claim based on literally anything at all, other than a reactionary pile-on sort of thing? It just seems wild to me how much a reasonably problematic situation can get overblown by people on the internet into something much worse simply because people love to be dramatic.

 

[DegustatoR]

People are overreacting for no apparent reason IMO. Intel will likely be able to fix this with a m/c and/or BIOS update. The most suspect part is that 12 series aren't affected while it is essentially the same CPU.

 

[homerdog]

People are overreacting for no apparent reason IMO. Intel will likely be able to fix this with a m/c and/or BIOS update. The most suspect part is that 12 series aren't affected while it is essentially the same CPU.

Reports indicate that the problem presents gradually and gets worse over time. If it's silicon degredation I don't see how a software update could serve as a permanent fix if your CPU has already been physically damaged.

Also it seems the 13700K and 14700K may be affected to a lesser extent.

In any case I think we will find out what's happening soon. Surely Intel knows what's going on at this point.

 

[techuse]

What's insane not just about your comment, but about most of the rhetoric surrounding this stuff, is that all these 'reports' seem to be only about the most highest, niche tier of Raptor Lake parts. The 13900k and 14900k parts. It should hardly even be surprising that such ultra juiced parts have especially high failure rates(and which isn't acceptable, dont get me wrong), but the way people are talking about things, they're acting like ALL Intel parts are having such issues, which there's genuinely no evidence for at all.

Do you have AMD stock or something? Is your claim based on literally anything at all, other than a reactionary pile-on sort of thing? It just seems wild to me how much a reasonably problematic situation can get overblown by people on the internet into something much worse simply because people love to be dramatic.

Could you elaborate? I'm not aware of anything other than Raptor Lake being defective.

How many CPUs did they sell knowing there would be considerable performance losses from the security exploits that would eventually require fixing? Over a decade of CPUs.

 

[itsmydamnation]

What's insane not just about your comment, but about most of the rhetoric surrounding this stuff, is that all these 'reports' seem to be only about the most highest, niche tier of Raptor Lake parts. The 13900k and 14900k parts. It should hardly even be surprising that such ultra juiced parts have especially high failure rates(and which isn't acceptable, dont get me wrong), but the way people are talking about things, they're acting like ALL Intel parts are having such issues, which there's genuinely no evidence for at all.

Do you have AMD stock or something? Is your claim based on literally anything at all, other than a reactionary pile-on sort of thing? It just seems wild to me how much a reasonably problematic situation can get overblown by people on the internet into something much worse simply because people love to be dramatic.

Do you have Intel stock? wendel ( spelling? ) has said he has a large dataset of W series that have the same behaviour as well. Even lower powered W series , was watching a stream he is like there is something going on here he hasn't nailed down yet but he's just going to keep working until he does.

He also said he is getting organisations reaching out to him that he has never delt with before and once they filter there crash logs/ reports via vendor / gen they are seeing the same correlations. The problem is software Devs are looking at bugs for software problems not hardware problems. It's looking like this has been hiding in plain sight for a while.

He also said Intel is becoming a bit , if you keep looking we might not be able to help you ( paraphrasing).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Reports indicate that the problem presents gradually and gets worse over time. If it's silicon degredation I don't see how a software update could serve as a permanent fix if your CPU has already been physically damaged.

Additionally if it's FW/BIOS related, you should be able to reset to get back to normal. The lack of software fixes to date points more towards a hardware issue IMO. Faults increasing over time, more so with higher power and heat, randomised across chips, is exactly what you'd get with a hardware issue and hard to explain with a software one. That doesn't mean it is a hardware issue - there could be some esoteric software peculiarity - but it seems a lot more likely IMO.

 

[homerdog]

Additionally if it's FW/BIOS related, you should be able to reset to get back to normal. The lack of software fixes to date points more towards a hardware issue IMO. Faults increasing over time, more so with higher power and heat, randomised across chips, is exactly what you'd get with a hardware issue and hard to explain with a software one. That doesn't mean it is a hardware issue - there could be some esoteric software peculiarity - but it seems a lot more likely IMO.

I haven't seen any plausible software explanation for what's being reported. Increasing failures over time, being temporarily fixed by increasing voltage and/or decreasing frequency. Seems very, very likely this is hardware.

 

[orangpelupa]

And for some reason, Intel stock keeps rising.

So it seems this issue is not a big enough concern.

Maybe internally, Intel even "fuck it, our next Gen cpu this year didn't have this issue" but in a more business appropriate ways.

Full disclosure : I do have Intel stocks (and amd)

 

[DavidGraham]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1812744343662539014

 

[T2098]

People are overreacting for no apparent reason IMO. Intel will likely be able to fix this with a m/c and/or BIOS update. The most suspect part is that 12 series aren't affected while it is essentially the same CPU.

I strongly disagree here - 12th and 13th/14th gen certainly share a lot of architectural similarities, but are definitely not the same CPU, and not even 'essentially the same.' They are completely distinct physical design and tapeout.

More L2 cache for the P-cores, a longer ring bus with more stops for the two extra E-core clusters, significantly higher ring bus clocks, and then significantly higher overall frequencies on the same process, with the associated leaps in voltage, among many other changes.

Intel might be able to mitigate this with a microcode and/or UEFI update, but I strongly suspect to do so would require them to pull the voltage way back, and then also drop frequencies below the advertised specs on the box, which may keep the CPU alive, but is an entirely different and new catastrophe if that ends up being the outcome.

The really interesting thing to note is that game servers in the datacenter are dropping like flies too, with telemetry showing Tj never going above 85c, and in W680 / server motherboards.
Laptop SKUs and even the TDP-constrained business-class desktop SKUs like the 35w TDP i7-13700t are represented in the failure data too.

 

[T2098]

From the original Raptor Lake launch - there were even changes at the process and transistor level, over and above the physical CPU layout and design differences, compared to Alder Lake/12th gen.

 

[homerdog]

Any theories on what specifically the problem is? I still haven't seen any good guesses.

 

[digitalwanderer]

This is from a month ago but I missed it:

 

[DavidGraham]

Epic Games Releases Guidelines For “Frequent Crashes” In Fortnite, Associated With Intel’s 14th Gen & 13th Gen CPUs.

Epic Games Releases Guidelines For "Frequent Crashes" In Fortnite, Associated With Intel's 14th Gen & 13th Gen CPUs

Epic Games has released a guideline for users facing "frequent crashes" with Intel's 14th Gen & 13th Gen CPUs within Fortnite.

wccftech.com

 

[homerdog]

This is from a month ago but I missed it:

Now we know the problem is present even on W series server boards that can't overclock. Silicon degradation is likely, but right now it looks like there's not much you can do about it.

Epic Games Releases Guidelines For “Frequent Crashes” In Fortnite, Associated With Intel’s 14th Gen & 13th Gen CPUs.

Epic Games Releases Guidelines For "Frequent Crashes" In Fortnite, Associated With Intel's 14th Gen & 13th Gen CPUs

Epic Games has released a guideline for users facing "frequent crashes" with Intel's 14th Gen & 13th Gen CPUs within Fortnite.

wccftech.com

Intel partners and software companies are having to pick up the pieces, with no official word from Intel. Shame.

 

[Dictator]

Epic Games Releases Guidelines For “Frequent Crashes” In Fortnite, Associated With Intel’s 14th Gen & 13th Gen CPUs.

Epic Games Releases Guidelines For "Frequent Crashes" In Fortnite, Associated With Intel's 14th Gen & 13th Gen CPUs

Epic Games has released a guideline for users facing "frequent crashes" with Intel's 14th Gen & 13th Gen CPUs within Fortnite.

wccftech.com

daaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn

 

[tunafish]

People are overreacting for no apparent reason IMO. Intel will likely be able to fix this with a m/c and/or BIOS update. The most suspect part is that 12 series aren't affected while it is essentially the same CPU.

To me, the fact that the failures are progressive (that is, the affected CPUs degrade over time, going from being totally fine to having occasional faults to crashing constantly) hints at a process/manufacturing problem rather than a CPU design issue.

 

[DegustatoR]

To me, the fact that the failures are progressive (that is, the affected CPUs degrade over time, going from being totally fine to having occasional faults to crashing constantly) hints at a process/manufacturing problem rather than a CPU design issue.

Well, consider this:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1812809088977236357

Granted this would not be an "easy fix" for Intel at all but still isn't exactly any of the things you or people elsewhere are suggesting.

There are many things there to consider and research prior to coming to some dubious conclusions like the one where Intel CPU engineers suddenly forgot how to make chips.

 

[homerdog]

Unconfirmed but he says they are literally rusting

And the 13600K is affected . He did say something about the problem starting in March 2023. I bought mine in Feb 2023 so fingers crossed. I don't wanna have to RMA my CPU since I don't have another one to use while it's shipping.

 

[Seanspeed]

And the 13600K is affected .

It looks to me like most all reported problems are coming from 900k variants. Of course other chips may experience some higher than normal issues as all these chips are being pushed pretty hard in their respective bins, but relatively few people with such lower tier RL parts seem to be encountering these issues. It does seem that the issue, while real, is being overblown somewhat in the way people talking about it, as if all Raptor Lake parts are somehow disastrously failing or something.