The HDMI Conspiracy Theory...

[pipo]

Complete article: http://editorials.teamxbox.com/xbox/1608/Editorial-The-Secret-HDMI-Pact/p1/

The first thing I did when I got my hands on the HD-DVD drive mock-up Microsoft had on display at E3 06, was to check its back side. When I found that there was only a power socket and three USB ports, I approached a Microsoft representative to ask where the HDMI port was, or if they plan to release an HDMI Xbox 360 AV cable when the external HD-DVD drive launches. His response was:

“If Sony is not using HDMI to play Blu-ray Disc movies, neither are we.”

To which I immediately replied, “But the AACS spec demands the use of HDMI or DVI in order to playback HD content at its full resolution”. Before I finished my words, he repeated,

“If Sony is not…”

I was a little surprised that a Microsoft representative would provide such an unsubstantial explanation for the lack of HDMI on the Xbox 360. Since when does Microsoft do things based on Sony’s actions?

He does a pretty good job at explaining the background and related stuff too by the way... Nice little read.

 

[Bohdy]

Makes sense. I doubt Microsoft had a solution to the AACS ICT problem, so the fact that now Sony has to deal with it also must be a huge weight off their collective back. Now Sony has as much incentive as MS to discourage the use of the ICT, and even if studios don't listen they can claim to offer as much as the nearest rival.

 

[London Geezer]

MS's "me too" mentality is a bit embarrassing sometimes. Now that mentality has become a "If sony don't, we don't..."

God forbid they would at least try to do something different or even better than Sony!

Sony announced they would put 512MB RAM in PS3, MS announces they would increase X360 RAM to 512MB. Sony shows an active interest in HD movies, MS starts playing games with HDDVD. The list goes on and on and on. I wouldn't mind if MS would at least try to do something more than Sony, but as it is they're stuck at "we'll only give you as much as Sony is giving you, nothing more!".

Don't know, i just don't find it very aggressive or even consumer-oriented.

In the end, it really is true that Sony sets the trends (after stealing some ideas from Nintendo) and MS follows suit.

 

[LunchBox]

It's no surprise because their representatives don't really know what's going on in terms of the HD-DVD drive is concerned. Although the rep should have been more PR-friendly. Giving out rude/blunt answers is not the reason they're getting paid for.

 

[sonyps35]

london-boy is a name known to alllondon-boy is a name known to alllondon-boy is a name known to alllondon-boy is a name known to alllondon-boy is a name known to alllondon-boy is a name known to all

Default
MS's "me too" mentality is a bit embarrassing sometimes. Now that mentality has become a "If sony don't, we don't..."

God forbid they would at least try to do something different or even better than Sony!

Sony announced they would put 512MB RAM in PS3, MS announces they would increase X360 RAM to 512MB. Sony shows an active interest in HD movies, MS starts playing games with HDDVD. The list goes on and on and on. I wouldn't mind if MS would at least try to do something more than Sony, but as it is they're stuck at "we'll only give you as much as Sony is giving you, nothing more!".

Don't know, i just don't find it very aggressive or even consumer-oriented.

In the end, it really is true that Sony sets the trends (after stealing some ideas from Nintendo) and MS follows suit.

Are you crazy? The number one complaint I heard from IGN, 1UP, Gamespot, etc after Sony's E3 conference was "this sounded nice the first time, when we heard it from Microsoft".

I mean, you can argue, the biggest copy going is Sony copying Live. Which we know they will do, right down to microtransactions, an XBLA type service, voice chat, right down to the guide button on the controller.

Sony even copied MS two SKU's hardware system, after explicitly claiming they wouldn't since it "confused consumers".

A included HDD could be argued as a bit of a copy of Xbox, even. They copied the late Novemember launch date as well, and worldwide launch of 360 too.

Sony has copied arguably, many things about MS model, such as outsourcing production to flextronics type operations, right down to using GPU with PC lineage.

MS on the other hand NEVER hyped hi-def movies. Their stance was always, we're launching in 2005, that precludes us from including HD playback out of the box, simply due to time frame. After that let the chips fall where they may.

Sure, the 512MB thing was sort of a copy, I suppose. But it's more like, doing what it takes to be competitive. That's like saying Alienware copied Dell to put 1 GB RAM in their PC or something. RAM is not a copy.

By no means am I trying to make it sound like MS doesn't copy others, or whatever. Just pointing out some things.

 

[pipo]

MS's "me too" mentality is a bit embarrassing sometimes. Now that mentality has become a "If sony don't, we don't..."

I somehow get the feeling you didn't read the article.

The quote is a bit out of context.

 

[Carl B]

Sonyps35 you're going to extremes, don't you think?

First of all, I don't understand this obsession with who 'copied' who - it seems to be like a badge of honor or something to have done something first.

But some of your claims are just outlandish. Flextronics-like outsourcing? I mean, I don't even know what you're refering to as it applies to the PS3, but Sony is a consumer electronics manufacturer - they've been outsourcing production for years. Even PS2 and PSP have some aspects of their production outsourced.

And how is MS increasing RAM acting to stay competetive, but Sony 'copying' Live blatant theft? I think we can all agree, whether MS originated the implementation or not, there's no real viable alternative to Sony not including Live-like functionality if they want to... stay competetive.

And there are of course their own touches, such as the Location-Free aspects in conjunction with the PSP.

When features are good, they get incorporated across the industry - as they should. Microsoft deserves credit for Live, but that's not the same as saying Sony deserves lambasting for now rolling out their own version of it.

Anyway in reference to the article, it was a good read, though I don't know if 'conspiracy' is the right word for it.

 

[TheChefO]

God forbid they would at least try to do something different or even better than Sony!

Xbox?

Streamlined online play?

Arcade?

Downloadable demos/videos?

 

[EndR]

It´s safe to say that everybody is "paying homage" to everybody in the biz.
It is not that MS copies Sony more or vice versa but yeah.. there are times when things are "obvious".. (Sonys tilt controller anyone?)

In the end, its the end user that benefits from this.. right?

 

[hey69]

its clear, MS had not a console , sony had therefore ms copied everything ....

ok lets move on

 

[London Geezer]

Funnily enough, i never even mentioned anything "copying". My comments were on a completely different level, which obviously was not grasped by some. I was only commenting on the fact that MS should very well say "If Sony don't, we DO", instead they limit themselves by what Sony wants to do.
So what if the cheap PS3 don't have HDMI? How is that stopping MS to cover that area, even if Sony don't?
That's what i was commenting on, about "covering areas" the competition isn't covering without limit their product by what the competition has, nothing to do with "copying", because we all know that everyone copies everyone else anyway.

Sonyps35 totally jumped the gun, misunderstood the post i made, and posted out of personal bias induced anger at the first negative comment about MS, as usual.. Oh well, let's move on. Certainly explains why some people have a red square, while some people don't.

 

[Guden Oden]

Sure, the 512MB thing was sort of a copy, I suppose. But it's more like, doing what it takes to be competitive. That's like saying Alienware copied Dell to put 1 GB RAM in their PC or something. RAM is not a copy.

By no means am I trying to make it sound like MS doesn't copy others, or whatever. Just pointing out some things.

Dude, you need to chill. This isn't a constructive discussion, quibbling over who copied what from whom is something that belongs at ign or opa-ages or those places. I could point out that MS wouldn't even be in the console market if not for Sony's success, but this is B3D. Catfights between brands don't belong here.

 

[TheChefO]

Wait a second Guden. While Sonyps did perhaps run overboard with his reply, it was a reply to an original statement which was suspect from the start.

While championing originality and innovation as well and good, doing so on a balanced level should be something this board strives for.

Sony has an agenda as well as MS and they will each cover their areas of interest. This explains MS's lack of investment in HDMI at the moment. WRT Sony, we know what their agenda is as well and they will invest to ensure their interests are secured.

Obviously some(most) on this board also have a slight(heavy) lean one way or the other. Cut him some slack guys.

 

[scooby_dooby]

MS's "me too" mentality is a bit embarrassing sometimes. Now that mentality has become a "If sony don't, we don't..."

This takes the cake, MS is the least "me too" of the three companies, how about you give us some examples of this 'me too' attitude?? Seriously. If you're going to make these claims, back them up.

As for this case, did you read teh article?

Now, guess who are the founding members of the AACS LA committee? IBM, Intel, Microsoft, Matsushita (Panasonic), Sony, Toshiba, The Walt Disney Company, and Warner Bros. Studios. As you can see, there you have the inventors of HD-DVD (Toshiba) and Blu-ray Disc (Sony), and the manufacturers of the two next-generation consoles that will play high-definition movies - the Microsoft Xbox 360 and the Sony PlayStation 3.

As you can also see, of its eight founders, six of them are consumer electronics manufacturers, with the other two being the only movie studios on the committee. When you add to that the fact that one of those manufacturers (Sony) also owns several movie studios including Columbia, Tri-Star and Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, you realize who has the ball in their court.

MS has no power here, they want to use component, but it's really up to Sony and the other CE manufacturers to decide, in this case MS is forced to follow the lead of the other members of the board, the most influential member happens to be Sony.

I can't think of anything they've copied from the other guys, maybe the camera that's about it. Nintendo's virtual console, or sony's embedded HDD and PS-online service or motion sensing controller are far better examples of the 'me too' attitude.

 

[scooby_dooby]

First of all, I don't understand this obsession with who 'copied' who - it seems to be like a badge of honor or something to have done something first.

But saying Sony always 'sets the trend' is bordering on f@nboy talk. What are the current trends in gaming? Online play? Who really kick-started that?? Not sony. What about arcade services, and advanced media functionality embedded in the console? Who started that? Not Sony.

What 'trends' exactly has Sony set for this generation of consoles? The truth is, they haven't brought a single thing to the table that is not in one of the other 2 consoles. The location free posibilities with PSP is about the only thing that Sony is breaking ground with as far as I can tell.

By all means, I'd like to hear some examples of this percieved 'trend setting'

 

[TheChefO]

This takes the cake, MS is the least "me too" of the three companies, how about you give us some examples of this 'me too' attitude?? Seriously. If you're going to make these claims, back them up.

Also there is a difference between "copying" and providing something which your customers have asked for. The specific wording I'm not sure but:

If consumers widely bought something that was previously only available on your competitors platform, then by offering it yourself to your customers is smart business. If you're "borrowing" ideas from your competitor that have not hit the market yet and have no track record for demand then this I would say is copying or nullifying a potential advantage your competitor may hold over you.

Wii

 

[TheChefO]

But saying Sony always 'sets the trend' is bordering on f@nboy talk. What are the current trends in gaming? Online play? Who really kick-started that?? Not sony. What about arcade services, and advanced media functionality embedded in the console? Who started that? Not Sony.

What 'trends' exactly has Sony set for this generation of consoles? The truth is, they haven't brought a single thing to the table that is not in one of the other 2 consoles. The location free posibilities with PSP is about the only thing that Sony is breaking ground with as far as I can tell.

By all means, I'd like to hear some examples of this percieved 'trend setting'

[ears perked] ... que the crickets ....

 

[Carl B]

But saying Sony always 'sets the trend' is bordering on f@nboy talk. What are the current trends in gaming? Online play? Who really kick-started that?? Not sony. What about arcade services, and advanced media functionality embedded in the console? Who started that? Not Sony.

What 'trends' exactly has Sony set for this generation of consoles? The truth is, they haven't brought a single thing to the table that is not in one of the other 2 consoles. The location free posibilities with PSP is about the only thing that Sony is breaking ground with as far as I can tell.

By all means, I'd like to hear some examples of this percieved 'trend setting'

Wait, from me? Because I'm not talking about trendsetting.

I could care less about who copies who or who sets the trends - I'm all consistent, all the time.

@Chaf-O: You have to ratchet down the posting, or at least combine posts... or something... 400+ posts in ~two weeks is out of control; posts like #17 in this thread just serve as filler and should be pared back.

 

[habbe]

What 'trends' exactly has Sony set for this generation of consoles? The truth is, they haven't brought a single thing to the table that is not in one of the other 2 consoles. The location free posibilities with PSP is about the only thing that Sony is breaking ground with as far as I can tell.

They all brought something to the "trend". wasn't sony first with dvd capabilities and eyetoy ?.

I think it would be more intresting if they try to overcome each other.

 

[TheChefO]

@Chaf-O: You have to ratchet down the posting, or at least combine posts... or something... 400+ posts in ~two weeks is out of control; posts like #17 in this thread just serve as filler and should be pared back.

look, Scoob made a great point and personally I thought it added a bit of humor to the board. If you want to question the content of my posts and what I have brought to this forum I suggest you review my post history and I think you'll find the vast majority of those posts were not "filler" but either added information/perspective to an issue or questioned those who may know something which had not yet been shared up to that point and subsequently brought that information out to us from those in the know.