The Fanboy Wars, Continue They Do ...

[BRiT]

Depending on how extensive the NeoGAF discussion gets, it seems like it should be moved to the RPSC forum subsection?

~~~
I think some of those steps happened out of order. It seems like many wished for that site to be silenced long ago because of how users interact with one another, and not because of any fictional (perceived) bias or slights on behalf of or against a single company.

 

[mrcorbo]

My posts have been thus far...games I have played (mostly in psvr and PS4 pro) , criticism on checkerboarding , hating on gt:s , severe criticism on Microsoft about Scorpio actual specs and this year’s e3 presentation , positive posts about sony’s Investment in first party and that’s about it. If people see criticism on gt sports and clear preference for forza 7 as some sort of extreme fanboism the its their problem. Funny thing is that during e3 people were accusing me of being anti-ms. Anyway I never have problem with personal insults on the internet, like the mr. Fox post, and I am quite amused by it so all is well.

As far as neogaf goes, it’s a forum with an extremely fascistic attitude (in terms of actual behavior , they like to think themselves as liberals) and has been known to have ties with Sony for ages. One google search about sonygaf is enough or even simply reading that forum . Oh and no I have never been a member of that forum, but have been reading it since 2001, for the simple reason that I don’t have a paid e-mail which is necessary for them to accept you.

Now keep studying me

No study needed, really. You have the equivalent of a giant neon sign over your head.

 

[MrFox]

Depending on how extensive the NeoGAF discussion gets, it seems like it should be moved to the RPSC forum subsection?

~~~
I think some of those steps happened out of order. It seems like many wished for that site to be silenced long ago because of how users interact with one another, and not because of any fictional (perceived) bias or slights on behalf of or against a single company.

I guess, considering the argument is now about fascism and liberals.

I didn't follow the events, there are too many post per minute in that flat structure. There are some good posts there among the noise and the mods had a good methodology to get insiders validated while protecting their identity, any replacement site won't get the trust necessary to pull it off again. With Richard Leadbetter not really doing investigative journalism anymore, gaf was the last place we were getting credible insiders and leaks. I'm being selfish about it, I consider leaks unethical. If an employee does that where I work he should be fired and sued. But I really loved knowing things in advance. Specially the confidential specs and mechanisms which are otherwise hidden from the public forever.

 

[rokkerkory]

I feel a great disturbance in the fanboy force, as if thousands suddenly disappeared (neogaf) lol

 

[iroboto]

I feel a great disturbance in the fanboy force, as if thousands suddenly disappeared (neogaf) lol

Lol. Jeez.

Well I'm glad this is all being sorted out! Looks like a great discussion happening here with regards to understanding and curbing tribalistic behaviour. No one person is immune to the allures of tribalism, but it takes us as a community to work together to remind each other of it.

I'm glad that the console forums is working towards it, I did sense a shift recently in the rest of the threads. And I guess a lot of it stemmed from the quality discussions happening here.

If we keep this up, and this type of behaviour spreads everywhere on the forum, perhaps more developers will be more open/transparent to talk about their tech; I think this happened at one point in time, and they clammed up after the fanboysim began.

 

[BRiT]

I didn't follow the events, there are too many post per minute in that flat structure.

There's entirely way to many posts per second. Even months ago in order to find some details I had to go onto page number 10 to even find the topic which had posts in it just hour(s) ago.

There are some good posts there among the noise and the mods had a good methodology to get insiders validated while protecting their identity, any replacement site won't get the trust necessary to pull it off again.

Do you or anyone else know or can expand on the methodology that was effective on getting insiders validated while protecting their identity? I'm always eager and willing to learn better ways of doing things. I don't know if they used a sort of "access this url from an inside company IP" or if it was just verifying new users through their established chain of other insiders ... like having an insider at Company X vouching for new insider at Company X. But then I wonder how did they validate the original insider at Company X?

With Richard Leadbetter not really doing investigative journalism anymore, gaf was the last place we were getting credible insiders and leaks. I'm being selfish about it, I consider leaks unethical. If an employee does that where I work he should be fired and sued. But I really loved knowing things in advance. Specially the confidential specs and mechanisms which are otherwise hidden from the public forever.

I'm similar, and think everyone else would be similar as well -- wanting to know all the details while not wanting their own livelihood being compromised. It's an odd sort of conflict.

Hopefully somehow more insiders will be able to and willing to share what they can on B3D (or replacement site), however I doubt the corporate veil will be pierced as deeply as it had been at NG.

 

[Nesh]

My posts have been thus far...games I have played (mostly in psvr and PS4 pro) , criticism on checkerboarding , hating on gt:s , severe criticism on Microsoft about Scorpio actual specs and this year’s e3 presentation , positive posts about sony’s Investment in first party and that’s about it. If people see criticism on gt sports and clear preference for forza 7 as some sort of extreme fanboism the its their problem. Funny thing is that during e3 people were accusing me of being anti-ms. Anyway I never have problem with personal insults on the internet, like the mr. Fox post, and I am quite amused by it so all is well.

As far as neogaf goes, it’s a forum with an extremely fascistic attitude (in terms of actual behavior , they like to think themselves as liberals) and has been known to have ties with Sony for ages. One google search about sonygaf is enough or even simply reading that forum . Oh and no I have never been a member of that forum, but have been reading it since 2001, for the simple reason that I don’t have a paid e-mail which is necessary for them to accept you.

Now keep studying me

Just great. Some fanboys create the term SonyGaf because apparently they dont like Sony Fanboys and Sony news and suddenly it is a fact that Sony has a payroll for minions in NeoGaf

 

[Johnglen]

1. A person is accused of sexual harassment, causing turmoil
2. ???
3. Wishes the entire site to be silenced... because sony.

Yes I noticed the peculiar equal opportunity fanboyism, which doesn't give the posts any more value.

Why did you single out Sony from my post ? I even wrote that neogaf had a particular issue with being extremely pc over matters like this so I thought it was funny how the tides turned. You singling out the Sony part says that you have an issue too when it comes to accusing a corporation, if that corporation is Sony I would guess. Also acting like I am the first person to ever write about neogaf-Sony connection is bizarre, this has been known for many years. Hell even if am wrong why do you even care , don’t remember insulting you or anybody else personally unless your name is Sony. The fact that you resorted to a highly insulting post to my two line post speaks volumes.

I dislike neogaf as a place , for a number of reasons, and I am happy to see it having trouble, don’t see the harm in that.

 

[Nesh]

Why did you single out Sony from my post ? I even wrote that neogaf had a particular issue with being extremely pc over matters like this so I thought it was funny how the tides turned. You singling out the Sony part says that you have an issue too when it comes to accusing a corporation, if that corporation is Sony I would guess. Also acting like I am the first person to ever write about neogaf-Sony connection is bizarre, this has been known for many years. Hell even if am wrong why do you even care , don’t remember insulting you or anybody else personally unless your name is Sony. The fact that you resorted to a highly insulting post to my two line post speaks volumes.

I dislike neogaf as a place , for a number of reasons, and I am happy to see it having trouble, don’t see the harm in that.

Bro you have an issue with anyone who blatantly dont talk against Sony. Its like someone has to pass the "Sony dislike" test to prove that he is not a Sony fanboy or Sony paid minion

 

[mrcorbo]

If we keep this up, and this type of behaviour spreads everywhere on the forum, perhaps more developers will be more open/transparent to talk about their tech; I think this happened at one point in time, and they clammed up after the fanboysim began.

The problem is, this being a public forum, there's no guarantee that what gets posted here stays here. Sadly, I think the level of developer contribution we once had here isn't ever coming back.

 

[mrcorbo]

Here's a thread for discussing the NeoGAF implosion.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If we keep this up, and this type of behaviour spreads everywhere on the forum, perhaps more developers will be more open/transparent to talk about their tech; I think this happened at one point in time, and they clammed up after the fanboysim began.

My understanding is that were the old guard who basically moved on from development, or at least learnt not to share as it can lead to trouble. Or just ran out of time. But Faf and Deano and nAo et al. were from the PS2 era and just got quieter as the years rolled by, as members typically do (lots of older posters - Titanio, Patsu, Carl B/XBDestroya - have moved on to somewhere).

To get devs posting, there kinda needs to be something in it for them. They're very busy people. In some cases there's good PR, like Sebbbi's Claybook, but the audience here is too small. You'd need a way to attract the insiders and content, and then expand the audience to make the platform self-sustaining in terms of devs wanting to be a part of the community. B3D can definitely provide the best quality of community on the web to foster insider interactions (it's managed and can be operated according to whatever standards are wanted, with dedicated Tech forums to keep and Elite level of discussion in theory, although our freedom of speech policies tends to allow a reasonable amount of crap) which is a unique opportunity, unlike reddit and neoGAF that are open to millions of mindless one-liners and cat/owl pictures, but the audiences there are huge.

 

[MrFox]

There's entirely way to many posts per second. Even months ago in order to find some details I had to go onto page number 10 to even find the topic which had posts in it just hour(s) ago.



Do you or anyone else know or can expand on the methodology that was effective on getting insiders validated while protecting their identity? I'm always eager and willing to learn better ways of doing things. I don't know if they used a sort of "access this url from an inside company IP" or if it was just verifying new users through their established chain of other insiders ... like having an insider at Company X vouching for new insider at Company X. But then I wonder how did they validate the original insider at Company X?



I'm similar, and think everyone else would be similar as well -- wanting to know all the details while not wanting their own livelihood being compromised. It's an odd sort of conflict.

Hopefully somehow more insiders will be able to and willing to share what they can on B3D (or replacement site), however I doubt the corporate veil will be pierced as deeply as it had been at NG.

I have no idea how it works exactly, they supposedly have a chat and ask for credentials. I was going by "the proof is in the pudding", years of rarely having false positives, never having exposed their identity as far as I am aware. Or maybe all the leaks are actually corporate "leaks". The false positives are instant ban forever, and you have to provide a corporate email address to create an account. Considering leakers are looking for fame on the internet, I guess it's naturally effective. Promise of fame, vs penalty of disappearing. Second leak is credible, first leak is probation until it's proven true down the road. All they validate is that the person is in a position to know what they claim. It raises the effort necessary to play the system. They most probably know the identity, they just promise to never expose it. I suppose you need lawyers for that in case the company calls you, or the police investigating illegal disclosure of trade secrets. There can't be any plausible deniability excuse.

Richard was leading with a better position because of his real journalistic experience. He had contacts off the record to corroborate rumors. It was professional journalism. Not a promise of fame on a forum.

I think having insiders leaking stuff here would be a can of worms we don't want. The WSJ, or other places with editorial oversight and lawyers, will have leaks and we can still discuss them. Scoops are about exposure and publicity, they spread in minutes, and discussions will happen regardless of where it was leaked in the first place. Also B3D have a lot of people working in the industry, it might cause more harm than good.

We could have a code for those in a position to know like replying "interesting!" if the rumor is true.

 

[dobwal]

There is a difference between being enthusiastic about a product and 'defending' it. For a start why does a product need defending? It's an animate object without any feelings and is unaffected by anything that mean people on the internet may say about it. Fanboyism is a particular strand of cognitive dissonance which appears related to the buyer's remorse phenomenon. Studies have shown that a small number of people find negative opinions on items, or service to which they subscribe, as an attack on their judgement and feel a need to assert their position.

So, not 'normal', fringe. The greater majority of people don't give two hoots what anybody else thinks of their product buying criteria but they're not very active on sites like this, GAF, IGN etc. This is why in a market of 100+ million gamers, an infinitesimally small - rounding-number error levels - number of genuine enthusiasts and fanboys gather. Online communities generally comprise that narrow slither comprising the best and worst of gamer personalities, but generally not many remotely representative of the greater majority. They're just playing Forza 7 and not caring by SDF_Terminator2003 said about his Xbox on GAF. He doesn't give a toss

Yes while everybody is not looking to go on forums, comment sections and social media to actively participate in fanboy wars, many will defend their product of choice in more personal settings especially if confronted with information they feel is not true.

There is nothing abnormal about this scenario:

"I heard so and so product is junk"
"Well I own so and so product and here is all the reasons I'm happy with it..."

Do many people feel adamant about changing someone else's opinion that contrary to their own?

Probably not.

And while the number of people who may be dedicated loyalists or hobbyists for a particular product/brand/activity may be low, just about every product/brand/activity has a dedicated loyalist or fan following. Usually someone is passionate about something whether it tech, fashion, sports, politics, film/TV, art or collecting sea shells.

Passionate doesn't mean having fanboy fatigues in one's closet but polite debate around contrary positions is not out of the question as many find those type of engagements to be stimulating.

 

[BRiT]

I have no idea how it works exactly, they supposedly have a chat and ask for credentials. I was going by "the proof is in the pudding", years of rarely having false positives, never having exposed their identity as far as I am aware. Or maybe all the leaks are actually corporate "leaks". The false positives are instant ban forever, and you have to provide a corporate email address to create an account.

It looks like ResetEra is starting up their process of having publicly noted "verified" accounts for users with roles in the gaming industry -- https://www.resetera.com/threads/verification-faq.2971/

It isn't exactly the "insider whistleblower" track that leakers would have, but hopefully it would let other posters know that perhaps they shouldn't get into a debate on game engines with a game engine developer or other equally silly uninformed arguments exemplified on GAF.

 

[Nesh]

Oh dear lord. PCMR are the worst kind. There are these PCMR guys in a gaming fanpage who started trashing anything related to X, insulting anyone who likes it or thinks it is a good purchase

They claim you can build a PC for $500 that is equally if not more powerful. They also say that $500 is too much. $400 is the most it should have been sold at. I give them a link of the estimated bill of materials
https://www.engadget.com/2013/11/26/teardown-suggests-xbox-one-manufacturing-cost-of-471/

And what is the response?

It is not true. It costs MS's $200 to build an X.

I think we should make a new hall of fame thread for the most idiotic things we hear

 

[Karamazov]

The Best answer is to not answer. Just buy your hardware of choice and enjoy it.

 

[iroboto]

Oh dear lord. PCMR are the worst kind. There are these PCMR guys in a gaming fanpage who started trashing anything related to X, insulting anyone who likes it or thinks it is a good purchase

They claim you can build a PC for $500 that is equally if not more powerful. They also say that $500 is too much. $400 is the most it should have been sold at. I give them a link of the estimated bill of materials
https://www.engadget.com/2013/11/26/teardown-suggests-xbox-one-manufacturing-cost-of-471/

And what is the response?

It is not true. It costs MS's $200 to build an X.

I think we should make a new hall of fame thread for the most idiotic things we hear

yea. Sort of sucks. Ah well. I don't waste time with those types of guys; i think it's just insecurity playing out for them. I think the idea that pre-made hardware made for the masses can outperform all of their hardware know-how is probably threatening to their character.

 

[Nesh]

:| $200. They believe it.