The Console Arms Race: Is This What Console Gamers Want?

[Shortbread]

It's the same way of upgrading all previous Sony and Microsoft consoles. Sell the old and buy the new. There's at least 160 Million console gamers who didn't see that as an issue when moving from PS2 / Xbox Original to PS3 / Xbox 360.

Maybe you're right. I just don't see this model (revisions/upgrades) particularly working well within the console gaming space. I would like to hear some developers opinions on this matter. Especially those developers who stated; this particular business model wouldn't work well within the console gaming space (for a host of reasons).

 

[temesgen]

I'd prefer to see development focus on getting the most out of a platform and see new hardware introduced when there are true technical merits for the upgrade. Improvements in bandwidth are not too far off and I'd prefer to wait for that than see incremental improvements which arguably don't result in significant changes. If slightly better graphics are that important then I'd be inclined to buy a PC gaming rig.

 

[Arwin]

This type of rumor comes along every so often, but it always seems to turn out to be about providing additional features outside of actual games (typically multi-media). So I am not spending any brain cycles on this until Sony makes an actual announcement that proves that wrong, other than saying that I think we're better off with 5 year cycles for consoles. Progress and new features aren't coming fast enough to warrant anything like a phone type cycle. Backwards compatibility would be a nice-to-have for the future though - I do find I am playing PS3 games at times still that I am currently missing (some of the Move games, Tekken Tag 2 ... ).

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Maybe you're right. I just don't see this model (revisions/upgrades) particularly working well within the console gaming space. I would like to hear some developers opinions on this matter. Especially those developers who stated; this particular business model wouldn't work well within the console gaming space (for a host of reasons).

I don't think most console gamers will object other than on purely philosophical terms (or irrational fears).

How many people side-graded from PS3 fat to PS3 slim? Or X360 to X360 slim? Or PS2 to PS2 slim? Etc. I know many of my friends did on all of those. And then they either sold their previous machine or handed them down to friends, family, or relatives.

In this case, you aren't sidegrading to the same thing but smaller, you'd actually be upgrading to something better.

As long as each console is guaranteed to run any game released in the next 5-8 years (something console makers can guarantee and enforce if they wish) then I see no problems. In every single way it would be better than the existing console cycle.

1. Each console would be exactly the same as current and past console cycles.
2. Rather than a console sidegrade midway through a generation you'd get an actual console upgrade.
3. If offers some of the advantages of PC gaming without some of the disadvantages of PC gaming. Albeit hardware upgrades would be more expensive than PC upgrades unless a modular system were implemented (which is possible). But then modular hardware upgrades also has it advantages and disadvantages.

Win/Win.

Regards,
SB

 

[Grall]

How many people side-graded from PS3 fat to PS3 slim?

I did, because my launch phat broke on me. Technically it was a downgrade tho, I'm missing the card readers and two USB ports... Nobody would do this unless they had to; PS3 Slims were louder too than launch units (not in decibels perhaps, but the smaller blower fan has a more irritating pitch.)

A "PS4k" would be more than a sidegrade tho, it would be a proper upgrade, and I would definitely buy such a device.

 

[Rurouni]

The key thing is as long as Sony could sell it at a reasonable price ($400) without the need to subsidize it, I guess it could work. One of the problem with the old console is that they sold it at a loss to gain market share, thus need to have the console life cycle very long to compensate for it. Basically right now it is just a matter of timing of when the hardware is available to run PS4 level graphics at 4K that cost $400. Also since they are using a more common hardware, it should be easier to make a "half gen" console and not running into a dead end. With MIPS and CELL, they probably couldn't go far with this kind of half gen update even if the price is reasonable.
Just make sure that PS4 is still supported until PS5 arrived. Heck, with this arrangement, we might see PS4 supported (with new games) until PS5.5 or PS6 arrived, although I would imagine it won't be pretty... probably sub HD res with everything set to low by 202x standard and/or frame rate that is not stable and can dip often to sub 20fps. But hey, new games!

 

[eastmen]

The 4k gaming thing has to be bogus . If they go apu again even on 14nm nothing is going to come close to 4k gaming.

Anyway I don't mind it at all. You get better hardware you get better looking games. IT will even help out on the pc side because wont wont be stuck with ps4 level graphics for 8 years

 

[Xbat]

The only way I see this working is if it's only the resolution getting a bump to 4k, so every game is still made and optimised for the normal PS4 but Sony has worked out the hardware they need so that the new machine can run it at 4k and I think it will be expensive with a big profit margin.
A product for people with 60inch plus tv's and don't mind about price kind of how nvidia makes a killing selling Titan cards.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I don't think anything in the near future will allow a console to do 4k gaming with same visual fidelity as current games. Just going to 2560x1600 or 2560x1440 puts a huge strain on graphics cards. Even Geforce Titan and 980ti can't reliably do 4k gaming. It'll be possible to do 4k simplistic looking games. But nothing like current AAA games at 4k at console level prices and graphics hardware. Maybe 3 to 4 graphics generations from now (5-8 years potentially).

Regards,
SB

 

[Transponster]

Utterly dumb, complicated and/or pointless. I can only see them doing 14nm-based PS5 in 2017, because they are unsure about AMD's future, whether or not it's gonna go 10nm for potential 2019(-20) release of PS5 or skip it and go straight to 7nm for 2021(-22) potential release, stay alive, etc.

Releasing PS5 in 2017, taking full advantage of 14nm node shrink(Zen, Vega), would allow them not to worry about such things and sit on it at least until mature 7nm arrives, but that won't be an orthodox console launch nor would it be an orthodox console, it won't have any serious exclusives in launch window and even though for a first few years it will be sort of compatible with the PS4(because all of the development is centered around it), eventually PS4 would have to go(in a way that next ND game, or, say, GT7, won't come out on it), it must die in that scenario to not drag PS5 back, which is the whole point of this topic, right?

Is it worth to kill ps4, a console that potentially could end up reaching ps2 results(well over 40m units sold through now), over worry?


I think they should just stick to conservative way, introduce PS4 "Ready for Everything" Edition with PS VR and 4K(BD UHD) built-in support, maybe even make it standart version and not offer anything else with 14nm revision(btw, didn't AMD say it will offer node shrink first to Sony and MS? That means we should get 14nm PS4 in a few months, but since there is no noise about it yet, we probably won't)

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Did you read the Kotaku story? There's now way they got confused with the old story.

The little that I read had something along the lines of:

In layman’s terms, 4K resolution is around twice the pixel size of 1080p, which is the current standard for games on PlayStation 4 and competing consoles. The current PS4 can output 4K photos and videos, but cannot support 4K resolutions for games.

How many mistakes can one put into two sentences? How can you miss the fact that 4K in a TV is exactly (not around) four times the pixel amount (not size) of1080p? Why wouldn't they just google the PS4's HDMI 1.3 output capabilities and why would it be able to "output 4K photos and videos but not games"?
They have no idea what they're talking about. Kotaku is mostly made of casual bloggers who write about videogames and have zero understanding or curiosity about hardware. Chances are there's no upgraded GPU, just a revised HDMI controller and perhaps a GPGPU decoder software for UHD BluRay.

Overnight, Kotaku's parent company is now owing a lot of money to Hulk Hogan. Pehaps they just need the clickbait revenue for the $50M deposit they need to even appeal.

This part is particularly laughable:

As we were chasing down this story, coincidentally, Kotaku UK EIC Keza MacDonald overheard some developers casually talking about the machine while on line at GDC.

Coincidentally, their correspondent heard some developers casually breaking their NDAs in public. Right in the middle of GDC of all places. And only she heard them talking, no one else spoke about it until now.
Come on...

 

[function]

I'd prefer to see development focus on getting the most out of a platform and see new hardware introduced when there are true technical merits for the upgrade. Improvements in bandwidth are not too far off and I'd prefer to wait for that than see incremental improvements which arguably don't result in significant changes.

If you like to see large changes, then just skip an upgrade or two and bingo, you've got yourself a big jump. All you've done is missed out technology that was available, just as happens in the traditional console cycle.

6, 8, 10
6, 6, 10

If we image these figures to be some kind of console "power" rating, then all you've done in the second one is miss out, you don't actually gain anything and you still only end up where technology allows. You don't get a reward of advanced alien computer technology as a reward for holding out. With forwards compatibility you can stick with your four year old system if you want and keep on trucking. But for anyone looking for a new system, why keep churning out old consoles when for almost the same cost and pollution output you could make something better?

I'm still on 360 for my console kicks. My reason for not upgrading is that I have other things to spend my money on, and I'm not done with my console back catalogue. You won't have to buy a new system just because one's out.

If slightly better graphics are that important then I'd be inclined to buy a PC gaming rig.

If massively better graphics were important to you, you'd buy a PC. You don't have one because you don't want one. Which is absolutely fine. If better graphics don't bother your, don't buy an upgraded system. Doesn't mean other people shouldn't be allowed to have one.

 

[orangpelupa]

Chances are there's no upgraded GPU, just a revised HDMI controller and perhaps a GPGPU decoder software for UHD BluRay.

Yeah the Sony big Boss said months ago that they are exploring for more capable ps4 for media. Probably just 4k for bd and movies using new hdmi

Edit :
They also can upscale games to 4k. So they can slap 4k label on the box

 

[Egmon83]

This will never happen. Imagine Nintendo shitting out a slightly more powerful Wii at the height of the Wii craze, with titles like mario bros, and zelda not even on the market yet.
That didn't happen. Nintendo tried to when the Wii d(r)led out, but it was too late then. Of course Sony is developing PS5 as we speak: 16 core 12GB HBM2 with a 20TF GPU in 2020. But they won't ever release a game related PS 4.5

A PS4Slim? Or PS4 VR connector edition, or PS4 4K BD edition? Sure, but game PS4.5? No.

 

[orangpelupa]

This will never happen. Imagine Nintendo shitting out a slightly more powerful Wii at the height of the Wii craze, with titles like mario bros, and zelda not even on the market yet.
That didn't happen. Nintendo tried to when the Wii d(r)led out, but it was too late then. Of course Sony is developing PS5 as we speak: 16 core 12GB HBM2 with a 20TF GPU in 2020. But they won't ever release a game related PS 4.5

A PS4Slim? Or PS4 VR connector edition, or PS4 4K BD edition? Sure, but game PS4.5? No.

But Nintendo has been doing that for ages with their handheld console.

DS to DSi, 3DS to New 3DS

 

[wco81]

Can the PS4 decode H.265 in software?

Or will it need a big upgrade in CPU/GPU?

 

[orangpelupa]

Can the PS4 decode H.265 in software?

Or will it need a big upgrade in CPU/GPU?

Currently nope. It refuse to play h265.

But generally, PS4 codec support is a disappointment. My Xbox 360 is much more versatile.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Can the PS4 decode H.265 in software?

It would depend on the the complexity of the stream. It would definitely struggle with some of the H.265 videos I've encoded but there's probably scope of offload some of the computation to the GPU. But technically, that's hardware.

edit: oops, read 'can' to mean can it hypothetically.

 

[orangpelupa]

It would depend on the the complexity of the stream. It would definitely struggle with some of the H.265 videos I've encoded but there's probably scope of offload some of the computation to the GPU. But technically, that's hardware.

What setting do you use?

I never able to make my PS4 ply h265

 

[Deleted member 11852]

What setting do you use?

It's all 4K, 15 reference frames, CABAC, 32x32 intra-prediction, full fractional motion estimation, adaptive de-blocking, 32x32 DCT transformation and 64x64 motion estimation blocks. I.e. the encode is weighted for as low size as possible but high computation decode.

I never able to make my PS4 ply h265

Sorry for any confusion, I'm talking hypothetically based on PS4's Jaguar. I'm not aware that PS4 can play HEVC.