The AMD Execution Thread [2007 - 2017]

[Rikimaru]

Though, since this is the doom thread, let me add a gloomy note: due to AMD's lack of resources, Intel APUs and Nvidia GPUs will actually be better supported, even though they are less CPU-limited (Haswell and Fermi are getting DX12 support while Trinity/Richland will stay on DX11).

afaik all GCN GPUs/APUs are getting DX12.

 

[Kaotik]

Also, the benchmarking situation will become way better when DX12 games arrive. Major game engines will support DX12. DX12/Mantle advantages are similar.
Hence, there will be far more chance for AMD APUs to shine.
Though, since this is the doom thread, let me add a gloomy note: due to AMD's lack of resources, Intel APUs and Nvidia GPUs will actually be better supported, even though they are less CPU-limited (Haswell and Fermi are getting DX12 support while Trinity/Richland will stay on DX11).

afaik all GCN GPUs/APUs are getting DX12.

Yep, but Trinity & Richland are VLIW4, they can't support DX12 even if AMD wanted, it's not about lack of resources, but lack of capabilities of the chip

 

[UniversalTruth]

Yep, but Trinity & Richland are VLIW4, they can't support DX12 even if AMD wanted, it's not about lack of resources, but lack of capabilities of the chip

Yes, and these Trinity and Richland are quite aging APUs anyways.

I did some thorough calculations using that AMD A10-7870K review and guess what?

You can have:

A10-7870K + AsRock FM2A58M-DG3+ + Kingston DDR III 2400 Beast 2 x 4 GB - all for as low as 273 €.

and

i3 4360 + Gigabyte H81M-DS2 + Crucial DDR III 1600 2 x 4 GB + Palit GT 740 - all for 348 €.

I think it is perfectly obvious AMD solutions are more budget-friendly.

 

[Blazkowicz]

i3 4300 is the über expensive variant of i3 4100 with slightly better integrated graphics, you will choose i3 4160 instead.

 

[Kaarlisk]

In an Eastern European country:
AMD: 50€ (MB w/USB3 & HDMI) + 72€ (8 GB DDR3-2400) + 160€ (7850K currently) = 282€
Intel: 39€ (MB w/USB3) + 55€ (8 GB DDR3-1600) + 85€ (G3460) + 95€ (R7 250X 2GB GDDR5) = 274€
Intel: 39€ (MB w/USB3) + 55€ (8 GB DDR3-1600) + 118€ (i3 4160) + 80€ (R7 250 1GB GDDR5) = 292€
Either Intel choice will be faster than the AMD one. And both are more versatile.

 

[UniversalTruth]

AMD: 50€ (MB w/USB3 & HDMI) + 160€ (7850K currently)

You have inflated prices - here the 7850K is 150 € and there is no need to put a 50 € AMD motherboard against a 39 € competition one.

Better put the CPUs and MBs equal in cost as done in my offering and done in AMD's slide.

 

[Kaarlisk]

No. The MBs need to have equal features, not equal prices. AMD's cheap boards have DVI and USB2. The discrete solution has USB3 on a cheaper MB. And the discrete system, as a bonus, gets 4K 60Hz support over DP.

 

[UniversalTruth]

No. The MBs need to have equal features, not equal prices. AMD's cheap boards have DVI and USB2. The discrete solution has USB3 on a cheaper MB. And the discrete system, as a bonus, gets 4K 60Hz support over DP.

You completely ignore the idea of using as few as possible components in a case.

No bonuses there at all. The A10-7870K is a single chip meaning that it would fit anywhere, even in the tiniest ultra-compact cases. Discrete is nice but not in this case.
The A10-7870K easily pushes 4K video at 60Hz and offers 1080p gaming with high settings.

 

[BRiT]

So what do you want, apples-to-apples or apples-to-oranges comparisons?

 

[Kaarlisk]

You completely ignore the idea of using as few as possible components in a case.

Yes, I do. We're discussing price/performance here. And if I want small size, I'll take Intel, because the power requirement will be smaller.

The A10-7870K easily pushes 4K video at 60Hz and offers 1080p gaming with high settings.

Yeah, right. Easily. In my corner of the EU, I could find only one FM2+ board with DisplayPort – the $100 FM2A88X Extreme6+.

 

[UniversalTruth]

So, your complaint is the lack of proper* 4K 60 Hz support on the A10-7870K and the lack of initiative from the board partners to offer HDMI 2.0 or cheaper DP solutions.

Ok, then, may I ask you:

Which 4K monitor do you own?
What 4K content at 60 Hz do you want to watch?
Do you think that a small factor competition's solution will bring you enough performance even in that relatively smaller power envelope?

 

[Kaarlisk]

Which 4K monitor do you own?

We're speaking of my next system, not of my current one. I keep my desktops for a long time. In the last 7 years, I went Core2Duo -> Sandy -> Haswell on the laptop side, while my desktop still has a Core 2 Duo T7600.
Anyway, as soon as there's a good 24'' 4K monitor in the vicinity of 400EUR (I expect it within a year), I'm buying one.

What 4K content at 60 Hz do you want to watch?

Websites (text). I'm a fan of HighDPI.

Do you think that a small factor competition's solution will bring you enough performance even

If it's SFF, I only need "good enough". In other words, if we're changing the discussion from "gaming on a budget" to "SFF", all I need is a speed demon dualcore that can handle the desktop at 4K.

in that relatively smaller power envelope?

Broadwell at 65W is faster than 7870K at 95W.

Just in case you think I'm an Intel fanboy: from AMD, I've had a 4050e, X2 250, HD3650, HD6850. I'm still using the X2 250 (with a HD3200) because it's good enough for that PC.

 

[rcf]

Around here the situation is similar to what Kaarlisk described. For the same money one can buy an i3 41xx or Pentium G3258 (overclockable to 4.x GHz on H81 boards), 1600mhz RAM and a GDDR5 card that is much faster than A10's IGP that shares DDR3 RAM with the CPU.
The Pentium/i3 can later be sold and upgraded to i5, i7 or Xeon, while the A10 can't be upgraded at all. The GDDR5 card can also be sold and upgraded.
Because of those facts the discussion changed from "budget 1080p gaming" to "smaller form factor using fewer components".

 

[UniversalTruth]

We're speaking of my next system, not of my current one.

Speaking of next systems - my next system should be a 2016 model at the earliest. Now there will be a very important transition with CPUs and GPUs onto 14 / 16 nm manufacturing process, available cheaper 4K monitors, and some development with Windows 10.

the discussion changed from "budget 1080p gaming" to "smaller form factor using fewer components".

A10-7870K will perfectly do its job even now for the consumers on budget, and in small form factors.

Regardless of some people's side special standards and requirements.

 

[rcf]

A10-7870K will perfectly do its job even now for the consumers on budget, and in small form factors.

So please show us examples of such SFF gaming PCs that can only be built with 95W A10s and have no space for a videocard. Since we're on a budget, do we have to pay more for it to be "SFF"?

 

[UniversalTruth]

Something very tiny like this one:

Or just type mini or nano itx case in google and look at the images.

 

[rcf]

Something very tiny like this one:

Or just type mini or nano itx case in google and look at the images.

Is that ZBox using an A10-7870K? I don't think so.

 

[Kaotik]

Is that ZBox using an A10-7870K? I don't think so.

You're right, it uses FX-7600. Only difference between them is clocks (and TDP), though.

 

[rcf]

You're right, it uses FX-7600. Only difference between them is clocks (and TDP), though.

But now we have moved from desktop parts to mobile parts, and form factor is the priority while gaming is secondary due to lower performance. And I think there are more ZBoxes using Nvidia GPUs.
I'll admit that lower-TDP Kaveri can have its niches, but the high-end desktop parts (A10-7870K) make no sense.

 

[UniversalTruth]

Who said GAMING motherboards are not built for overclocking? Check out the #MSI A88X-G45 GAMING motherboard pushing the new #AMD A10-7870K processor over 5Ghz with ease. What overclock are you running?

https://www.facebook.com/msiuk/phot...8206359549383/865411290162216/?type=1&theater