The AMD Execution Thread [2007 - 2017]

[3dilettante]

I just looked over the documents on zdnet in more detail, and while it is to be expected that AMD's legal statements should be worded as forcefully as possible, it does look like AMD is going full-bore on these individuals.

As a point of reference, the tens of documents the former Intel engineer copied after he was hired at AMD were valued by prosecutors at $200-400 million and lead to 3 years in prison.

I don't know where tens to hundreds of thousands of documents and the possibility of substantiated charges of active conspiracy could land you.

Also, it seems like some of the statements in the brief indicate that communication and web searches coordinating or facilitating the theft or coverup were done on equipment within AMD's ability to search.
Carrier pigeons, people.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

It used to be the case that companies might hire people expecting them to bring along trade secrets from their ex-employers, ie it was a backdoor way for companies to steal another company's trade secrets.

However, nowadays with high power lawyers and the ability to trace this sort of stuff through audit trails, most companies would wash their hands of anyone who stole from their previous employers (and got caught).

AMD and Nvidia obviously work in the same markets, and if they were both working on similar products, AMD could argue that Nvidia was illegally using their stolen work. In court, legitimate Nvidia products could be tainted, with Nvidia forced to stop work or pay compensation. There's no way Nvidia could be seen to know of, or sanction this kind of industrial espionage without risking a lot of legal problems.

Unless these four guys covered themselves with secret tape recordings of Nvidia staff telling them to steal this info (which Nvidia will dismiss as just "a rogue recruiter"), they probably did this off their own bat, thinking they were taking info to help them line their new nests.

I won't be surprised if Nvida has no choice but to dump these guys.

 

[Alexko]

Yeah, this almost never touches hiring companies, who have very strict policies against this kind of stuff. It's just no worth the risk.

I certainly don't think this would be NVIDIA's policy or anything like that, senior execs would know better.

But if those 4 people did steal documents around the same time, it's very unlikely to be a coincidence, which means someone coordinated it. Either one of them, or the person hiring them.

 

[lanek]

I certainly don't think this would be NVIDIA's policy or anything like that, senior execs would know better.

But if those 4 people did steal documents around the same time, it's very unlikely to be a coincidence, which means someone coordinated it. Either one of them, or the person hiring them.

If the storyline described is true, effectively this is a bit hard to imagine it was just for themselves. Now offcourse they could have maybe use thoses informations for "boost" their own performance in their new functions.

 

[fellix]

I certainly don't think this would be NVIDIA's policy or anything like that, senior execs would know better.

But if those 4 people did steal documents around the same time, it's very unlikely to be a coincidence, which means someone coordinated it. Either one of them, or the person hiring them.

More likely those ex-employees were acting on their own, hoping to bring some more "value" weight on their professional background application to the new employer.

 

[Alexko]

More likely those ex-employees were acting on their own, hoping to bring some more "value" weight on their professional background application to the new employer.

How do you add value to your application with stolen documents without telling your employer: "Oh by the way, I've stolen a bunch of secret documents from my previous job. How about paying me X% more?"

 

[3dilettante]

They were being hired into decision-making or possibly design positions. Even without giving the data to Nvidia proper, they could "magically" start making really effective counters to AMD's moves.

 

[Grall]

How do you add value to your application with stolen documents without telling your employer: "Oh by the way, I've stolen a bunch of secret documents from my previous job.

If you have those documents in your possession, you could use them as reference material in your daily work without necessarily telling your employer that you do have them, thus they would benefit indirectly whilst simultaneously being provided a plausible deniability excuse by you.

In all, AMD unfortunately stands to lose from this even if their allegations are true. Suing employees who choose to quit just don't look very good to your other employees.

 

[3dilettante]

If the allegations are true, I imagine most employees would understand. What looks bad to me is that it just adds to the image that the organization is disfunctional.

When some pretty important members of the leadership can stab you in the back on such a wide scale, and recruit others to make it worse, would you feel the love in the office as other managers and executives reorganize and decimate the ranks?

 

[silent_guy]

Suing for stealing secrets is completely understandable.
Suing only for encouraging others to leave, as is the case for 1 of the 4, is pathetic.

 

[3dilettante]

Hagen apparently made a poor choice in the people he tried to solicit, since if Desai is convicted it would associate him with a loose conspiracy for industrial espionage.
At least it doesn't look like he solicited the "web-search how to steal your employer's secrets" person, although we wouldn't have known if Desai wasn't the "send conspiratorial emails at work" defendant.

AMD may be trying to spoil Hagen's utility for Nvidia by linking him to the rest of the suit, or it's gambling they'll find more on the storage devices held by the other three.
Hagen could be complicit, oddly unlucky, or he just solicited everyone he ran into at AMD.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Suing only for encouraging others to leave, as is the case for 1 of the 4, is pathetic.

It depends. If that is all it was then yes that would be pretty pathetic. If it turns out he also encouraged and orchestrated the stealing of trade secrets and documents then that is another matter entirely. We'll have to see what the lawsuit uncovers.

Regards,
SB

 

[jimbo75]

Suing only for encouraging others to leave, as is the case for 1 of the 4, is pathetic.

It's a breach of contract. Even if AMD are only doing it for revenge purposes, they should - otherwise they set a precedent and let everyone know that they are a soft touch on these matters.

 

[silent_guy]

It's a breach of contract. Even if AMD are only doing it for revenge purposes, they should - otherwise they set a precedent and let everyone know that they are a soft touch on these matters.

Yes, it's breach of contract. If that's all it is, it doesn't make it any less pathetic.

Maybe they were right to put this together with the more serious allegations, because on its own such an indictment would critically wound their chance of finding competent people.

Precedent? You must be new in this business?

I talk to former colleagues all the time. I have give the résumé of former colleagues into whoever was my employer at the time. I have nudged disgruntled former colleagues/friends into switching jobs. Other than fresh from college hiring, personal contacts is the most common way to hire people and very often that includes former colleagues. Just the hint that a company is willing to sue for this in the incestuous environment of the Valley is deadly. After all, why take the risk? Why give yourself the burden of having to be cautious whenever you interact with friends? There are enough other companies out there who don't do this and they're all hiring as well...

 

[OpenGL guy]

Yes, it's breach of contract. If that's all it is, it doesn't make it any less pathetic.

Maybe they were right to put this together with the more serious allegations, because on its own such an indictment would critically wound their chance of finding competent people.

Precedent? You must be new in this business?

I talk to former colleagues all the time. I have give the résumé of former colleagues into whoever was my employer at the time. I have nudged disgruntled former colleagues/friends into switching jobs. Other than fresh from college hiring, personal contacts is the most common way to hire people and very often that includes former colleagues. Just the hint that a company is willing to sue for this in the incestuous environment of the Valley is deadly. After all, why take the risk? Why give yourself the burden of having to be cautious whenever you interact with friends? There are enough other companies out there who don't do this and they're all hiring as well...

Are you saying you don't have ethics? Wow, that doesn't say good things about you.

If you are under contract not to recruit from your former employer, then you should not. If people approach you, that's completely different.

 

[silent_guy]

Are you saying you don't have ethics? Wow, that doesn't say good things about you.

"Hey John, haven't seen you in a while! How are things? Oh, bad stuff happening at work? That's too bad. Well, we're hiring."

Yeah, I guess that makes me a terrible unethical person. So be it...

If you are under contract not to recruit from your former employer, then you should not. If people approach you, that's completely different.

Because things are always black and white...

 

[Ethatron]

There are no paragraphs in the contract that one can't work the same position in other companies for a specific time?

 

[silent_guy]

There are no paragraphs in the contract that one can't work the same position in other companies for a specific time?

In CA: definitely not. And if it's there it is legally unenforceable.

 

[jimbo75]

Yes, it's breach of contract. If that's all it is, it doesn't make it any less pathetic.

Maybe they were right to put this together with the more serious allegations, because on its own such an indictment would critically wound their chance of finding competent people.

Precedent? You must be new in this business?

I talk to former colleagues all the time. I have give the résumé of former colleagues into whoever was my employer at the time. I have nudged disgruntled former colleagues/friends into switching jobs. Other than fresh from college hiring, personal contacts is the most common way to hire people and very often that includes former colleagues. Just the hint that a company is willing to sue for this in the incestuous environment of the Valley is deadly. After all, why take the risk? Why give yourself the burden of having to be cautious whenever you interact with friends? There are enough other companies out there who don't do this and they're all hiring as well...

Maybe you missed the contract part? If you are under contract not to do something then you do it, you are breaching the contract. Hell mend you if you do. It's not pathetic, it's there for a good reason. The obvious example is companies put money and effort into creating a team that can still operate even if 1 or 2 people leave - however they lose too much if more leave ergo poaching can't be allowed. You really don't understand the importance of how this can't be allowed to happen at will?

 

[silent_guy]

Maybe you missed the contract part? If you are under contract not to do something then you do it, you are breaching the contract. Hell mend you if you do. It's not pathetic, it's there for a good reason.

I'm not saying he's breaching contract. I'm saying it's pathetic and dumb to sue over it because it will most definitely back-fire for future hiring.