Terrible News/ people of Iraq...

[zidane1strife]

If you'd search further than the stories that reinforce your preconcieved notions of quagmire, there's positive things happening in Iraq that are being spoiled by a loud and vocal minority and/or foreigners doing their part for Jihad.

The average Iraqi is tired of war, wants a job, and to live in peace along with their neighbors. They're glad Saddam is gone, wants the coalition to stay until the burgeoning Iraqi government can fend for itself, and does not want a theocracy to replace Saddam or the Americans.

I know that, but I think it's good to see vids, and info from other countries and the like. Some of them might be biased, but they also bring along some info that will not be available here, you just have to filter it out, and see if there's even a small bit of info that might be true.

At least that is how I see it, I don't outright dismiss biased sources, no matter how outrageous their claims may be, but look to see if there's even a glimmer of truth in what they're saying...

 

[Humus]

When are you guys going to get a clue and realize the only people that think we are doing a favor for the Iraqis is us. 90% hate our guts. I swear half the people on these boards only read/watch US propaganda. Come to terms with this , we aided and abetted Saddam for 15 years , watched while he gassed Iranians, watched while he gassed his own people , watched while he slaughtered the Shiites , starved the country to death with embargoes . We have done all this within one generation of Iraqis. Do you think they have forgotten? Being right or wrong for the US is irrelevant , it only matters whether the Iraqs think whether it was right or wrong. They think we only help when it is in our interests. Guess what , it's true.
Imagine this, someone is kicking your ass for a few hours while someone that is alot tougher sits idly by. Then after a while of getting your ass kicked your assailant starts shit with the tougher witness. So this guy gets mad kicks your assailants ass then brags how he saved you. This is what has happened.

 

[zidane1strife]

Follow-up news

 

[Sazar]

When are you guys going to get a clue and realize the only people that think we are doing a favor for the Iraqis is us. 90% hate our guts. I swear half the people on these boards only read/watch US propaganda.

You're the one who's living in propaganda-ville.

Go read some Iraqi blogs about how they feel. They're overwhelmingly honest, decent people who want whats best for them, and whether or not they trust the US, they aren't barbarians and aren't interested in armed resistance, but in rebuilding.

wow... iraqi blogs... thats a novel concept...

and pray tell what percentage of the iraqi population is on the internet posting blogs again

the main news and opinions we see are based off of baghdad where most of the relief work and resconstruction projects exist and most of the work that there is to be found is present... not everyone in iraq lives in baghdad and therefore there is still a sizeable percentage of iraqi's who don't have the proper facilities and have not seen benefits of the occupation thus far...

there is a sayng something along the lines of idle minds are a devils playground... there is a vast unemployed segment in iraq today... apparently a few of them have nothing better to do than hunt down unarmed foreigners...

 

[Clashman]

wow... iraqi blogs... thats a novel concept...

and pray tell what percentage of the iraqi population is on the internet posting blogs again

Not to mention write in English?

 

[RussSchultz]

wow... iraqi blogs... thats a novel concept...

and pray tell what percentage of the iraqi population is on the internet posting blogs again

Not to mention write in English?

They must be CIA plants, then.

Seriously, though. Only ignorant speculation and nay-saying would put the Iraqi population as 90% hating the US and in support of armed resistance.

 

[kyleb]

na, i doubt they are cia plants, so then they must be repersentitive of the general poplulation. is that how your logic works, Russ?

 

[RussSchultz]

No, opinion polls are representative of the 'average' iraqi. And they're not vehemently anti-american and anti-reconstruction. Read the Iraqi blogs, which are generally well considered and fair on the topic, and some are even vocally anti-american. Read the mil-blogs about personal observations of the troops as to the 'average' iraqi they deal with.

Unless, of course, you dismiss all that and only like watching barbaric videos. Then its obvious they all hate us and we're doomed to fail. It helps if you only read anti-war.com and aljazeera.com.

 

[zidane1strife]

It helps if you only read anti-war.com and aljazeera.com.

, obviously that's not all, there are uk sites like bbc, and there are american sites like msnbc, cnn, washingtonpost, ny times, usnews, etc.

Do, I think that's what's shown outside in other countries has some spin? Yeah.

Do, I think what's shown here has some spin? Well, just watching a few talk shows, seeing how comments pop-up under these different shows, the comments being modified as the hours pass and later retracted... doesn't inspire me(fat kid in speech).


So, indeed, I do believe that things are censored for the american people too, and with good reason, if people can be duped by callers asking for strip searches... who knows what they'd believe if you just let them hear even a slight vague rumor... "moon landings not being real", " Ufo conspiracies", " non gm food don't contain genes ", etc...

 

[indio]

Wow were dragging everything but the kitchen sink into to this. Who said iraqis are anti-reconstruction , or support armed resistance? I said 90% hate americans. It's not that fine a distinction. That is also a problem with the questions in the polls. The quesitoning is completely slanted. It's like asking the question "Do you want the US to give you $500?"
Of course they'll say yes. That doesn't mean they don't hate americans. The poll questions are very narrow in scope. For example one survey question is "What is the single biggest problem facing Iraq?" not a single answer is "American forces occuping Iraq." Any references to US forces or occuping gov't as being a cause or factor for anything is conspiciously absent. I don't think they appear as a choice even once.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/15_03_04_iraqsurvey.pdf

Read the mil-blogs about personal observations of the troops as to the 'average' iraqi they deal with.

First of all how many Iraqis are going to walk to a soldier and say in English I hate your guts? Get serious.

 

[RussSchultz]

So, indeed, I do believe that things are censored for the american people too, and with good reason, if people can be duped by callers asking for strip searches... who knows what they'd believe if you just let them hear even a slight vague rumor... "moon landings not being real", " Ufo conspiracies", " non gm food don't contain genes ", etc...

I see. Americans are too stupid to think for themselves, while the rest of the world is full of free thinkers.

Do you know how arrogant that sounds?

People are the same world wide, we just have different goals, motivations and means of achieving our goals.

 

[RussSchultz]

First of all how many Iraqis are going to walk to a soldier and say in English I hate your guts? Get serious.

I had no idea the only way to express hatred was to say it in English. No wonder French is the 'language d'amour'. I guess thats also how we know Arafat never speaks ill of the US or Israel in his Arabic speeches--because hatred can only be expressed verbally in English.

I give up. You have your preconcieved world view. Nothing will change that.

 

[indio]

after going through the survey a little more I think it's hilarious that when asked which Iraqi national figure do you not trust at all. Ahmed Chalabi is the clear winner. He even beats out Saddam by triple.
If that isn't telling i don't what is .

 

[indio]

First of all how many Iraqis are going to walk to a soldier and say in English I hate your guts? Get serious.

I had no idea the only way to express hatred was to say it in English. No wonder French is the 'language d'amour'. I guess thats also how we know Arafat never speaks ill of the US or Israel in his Arabic speeches--because hatred can only be expressed verbally in English.

I give up. You have your preconcieved world view. Nothing will change that.

If it's not in English how would they understand what is said? There aren't many arabic speaking US soldiers of that I have no doubt. Your taling about soldiers on the ground writing blogs about there first hand experiences. Isn't it a given to understand how people think and feel you must be able to communicate effectively. i think a common language is a precursor to that.

 

[Legion]

If it's not in English how would they understand what is said? There aren't many arabic speaking US soldiers of that I have no doubt. Your taling about soldiers on the ground writing blogs about there first hand experiences. Isn't it a given to understand how people think and feel you must be able to communicate effectively. i think a common language is a precursor to that.

Yet you make many blatant assumptions concerning how these iraqis feel with the same "groundless" defense as Russ is using? If Russ' possition is innacurate i'd can't possibly see how yours is.

I agree with Russ. You have a preconceived world view and you wish only to look at the world through tinted lenses.

 

[Clashman]

Pot calling the kettle black...

 

[Legion]

Pot calling the kettle black...

Who? Indio and yourself progressing a view that most iraqi's are against US occupation and are willing to fight against it or Russ' stating indio has a preconceived notion, or perhaps both?

 

[RussSchultz]

If it's not in English how would they understand what is said? .... Isn't it a given to understand how people think and feel you must be able to communicate effectively. i think a common language is a precursor to that.

Thrown rocks, evil looks, spitting. There's plenty of ways more direct and eloquant to convey hatred than saying "I hate you".

Why is there violence toward kill Iraqis helping with the reconstruction? Why do they kill Iraqi police officers? Why do they kill people building things? Bringing food aid? The U f'n N? If you're correct, that its all because they hate America, why the hell does any of this happen, and why is 'security' the #1 priority of Iraqis?

 

[indio]

If it's not in English how would they understand what is said? There aren't many arabic speaking US soldiers of that I have no doubt. Your taling about soldiers on the ground writing blogs about there first hand experiences. Isn't it a given to understand how people think and feel you must be able to communicate effectively. i think a common language is a precursor to that.

Yet you make many blatant assumptions concerning how these iraqis feel with the same "groundless" defense as Russ is using? If Russ' possition is innacurate i'd can't possibly see how yours is.

I agree with Russ. You have a preconceived world view and you wish only to look at the world through tinted lenses.

i have my theory , he has his. my theory is backed up by results.

There about as groundless as those people hanging from that bridge. That must have been a figment of my imagination. All the dead are just figmants of my imagination. They really love us. They loved us in beriut. they weren't cheering in palestine either. They were incredibly saddened deep down inside when they were dragging soldiers in the streets in Somalia. Were are the results of what is asserted on the other side? I have one question . How is all this alleged pro-american activity being displayed? I haven't seen it. Pile on top of that every mid-east expert I have seen on TV or heard on radio in the last 10 years has said the region hates US . Then there's the article in Time magazine that clearly details the antiamerican sentiment in the mid-east. There is ample evidence supporting the way I see it. Where is the other sides evidence? Were are the pro-american rallys? Were are the fatwahs pronouncing americans are great? The one flaw in conservative thinking is denial of the obvious. The evidence is everywhere , specifically in the form of dead bodies.

 

[Legion]

i have my theory , he has his. my theory is backed up by results.

I can not see how.

What is your theory and how has it been supported by these events?

There about as groundless as those people hanging from that bridge. That must have been a figment of my imagination. All the dead are just figmants of my imagination. They really love us. They loved us in beriut. they weren't cheering in palestine either.

I don't see the vast majority of Iraqis committing these atrocities so i can not see how you can claim through sarcasm the Iraqis hate us. Did you really expect there not to be resistance from Saddam loyalists? You appear to have a very black and white and highly simplisitic view of cause and effect.

They were incredibly saddened deep down inside when they were dragging soldiers in the streets in Somalia. Were are the results of what is asserted on the other side? I have one question. How is all this alleged pro-american activity being displayed?

How is it evidence of mass sympathy and support for the terrorist cause?

I haven't seen it.

have you been looking?

Pile on top of that every mid-east expert I have seen on TV or heard on radio in the last 10 years has said the region hates US .

What was the context in which the statements were made? Who were they saying hates us? You can't possibly believe everyone in the middle east hates americans. I doubt any "expert" would make such a blatant and generalized statement.

Then there's the article in Time magazine that clearly details the antiamerican sentiment in the mid-east. There is ample evidence supporting the way I see it.

There has always been antiamerican sentiments. This hardly support the view the vast majority of people from the ME hate americans and support terrorism against america.

Where is the other sides evidence?

There is plenty of evidence residing in the fact its obvious most Iraqis are not condoning or supporting terrorism against the US.