One of the reasons Nintendo went with Nvidia is for that very reason. Nintendo just lacked any experience in modern 3D development platform since they only had to deal with decade old hardware for so long.
I would't say it is completely irrelevant.
Switch 2 Speculation
- Thread starter Goodtwin
- Start date
One of the reasons Nintendo went with Nvidia is for that very reason. Nintendo just lacked any experience in modern 3D development platform since they only had to deal with decade old hardware for so long.
I would't say it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe they'll revive the romored plan to work together with EA? But this time with Microsoft.
Or plot twist, with valve.
Megadrive1988
Veteran
What would be the optimistic expectation here, seeing new Switch in 2023 with the capability of a base/2013 PS4?
Pretty sure it will exceed base PS4 performance on docked mode. Just by looking at Orin NX specs.
If it has support for more modern technologies it will be better though.
It will most likely have access to faster storage I/O, stuff like Nanite + Lumen and hardware upscaling.
Assuming the Orin NX does end up powering the Switch 2, PS4'ish performance is about right. Better in some areas and weaker in a few. PS4 had great memory bandwidth and the Orin NX is still significantly bandwidth limited compared to PS4. Its likely that some of that deficit is reduced thanks to better GPU cache and memory compression techniques, but I would still bet PS4 has better memory performance. As we have seen with the Steam Deck, pushing the resolution up to 1080p and beyond with a low powered ship with memory bandwidth limitations is challenging with modern AAA games, and Steam Deck starts to struggle to outclass the PS4 at those resolutions. DLSS is going to be a significant perk for docked play. Being able to render at 1080p while outputting at 4K will be a nice perk. Overall the Switch 2 will be in a similar spot the Switch has been in. Ports of PS4 games will be plentiful while ports of PS5/X games will be more scarce.
Yup base PS4 performance, maybe a little higher for docked, sounds about right. That is before DLSS and other tech comes in the equation.
Switch 2 will likely use Ultra Performance at 4K (internal 720p) which will offset a ton of the performance difference between Switch 2 and PS5. It will look good enough, if the developers tweak post processing effects accordingly. For the average Joe the difference to 4K won't be noticeable.
Then you have faster RT performance. When next gen games are using RT for certain effects exclusively, the Switch will benefit from much higher efficiency compared to PS5.
Lastly, games in the future could use a lot of ML which could be accelerated by the tensor cores on Switch 2, giving it another huge efficiency gain compared to RDNA2 in the PS5.
All in all, I can see Switch 2 coming dangerously close to PS5 in terms of overall presentation, although graphics settings will be heavily dialed back of course. But as I said, the average Joe won't notice many differences which is the goal here.
So yeah, if Nintendo and Nvidia are doing a good job here, they could absolutely deliver a current gen console.
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Yes, it is noticeably better. It is worthwhile upgrade if you spend more time playing on portable mode.
I wouldn't be surprised if Switch 2 comes out with both OLED and LCD version. OLED for the premium version and LCD for mainstream, lower cost lite portable only version. Just like the original Switch.
And they have been a gimmick each time. If you really want to get into it motion control has been around since almost the beginning of home consoles. U-Force, power glove and power pad on the nes at the very least from what I can remember.
They are gimmicks as they barely get any real support. Hell Nintendo itself that doesn't come with motion controls.
gyro aiming is a genuinely useful gimmick. almost all switch shooters supports gyro aiming IIRC
neckthrough
Regular
To me it was a massive improvement. I had my OG Switch docked to my LG OLED and I hated going from docked to portable mode due to the huge drop in black levels, viewing angles and color saturation. The LCD just couldn’t keep up. As a result I ended up playing almost exclusively in docked mode.
When the original Switch reviews came out I was scratching my head at the effusive praise the reviewers heaped on its display. I seriously wondered if I had received a defective unit (narrator — he hadn’t). I suppose it was still a big jump from the awful 3DS TN screens.
So anyway, the OLED switch changed my usage pattern pretty dramatically. In fact other than Switch sports I’m more inclined towards playing most games in portable mode.
The OLED screen itself is fairly mediocre and definitely not as great as the ones in an iPhone or Pixel, but those are 2-3x more expensive devices and don’t have joycons and docks in their BOM costs. So given the constraints of a $350 device I think that screen is pretty sweet.
I definitely hope Nintendo doesn’t downgrade to an LCD again for the next model.
Switch LCD also have scanline-like effect (very similar to Nintendo 3ds IPS screen, but less obvious). Most people can't see it but unfortunate few (me), can see it.
When Switch came out I never took issue with the quality of the screen. It seemed fined, it didn't wow me like the PlayStation Portable screen did when I saw it in person for the first time back in 2005, but it was satisfactory to me. My first in person experience with OLED is my Switch OLED, and its a big upgrade over the OG LCD screen. It may not be top of the line like some phones and tablets implement, but is significantly better than the LCD screens originally used on Switch, and even Deck reviewers have made mention numerous times how the Switch OLED has a much better display than the Deck. So the Switch OLED certainly does have a very nice display, and I too play more portably now than I did before. I'm just hoping that Switch 2 doesn't revert to standard LCD, or at the very least their is a SKU on day one that offers an OLED display.
Kise Ryota
Newcomer
What I don't like about the Switch's OG screen is the blur I notice. I don't know what is the right name for it, if it's blur or ghosting, no idea. But I just feel the image is 'slow'. When I switch from my monitor to the console's screen, it's a big hit for me in games like mario kart and smash. I presume the OLED model has a much better motion-to-photon latency (or whatever it is, I'm really not a tech guy :/ ). But because docked mode is my main way to play, I gave up on selling my OG to get an OLED.
Is it safe to assume Nintendo is going to use the off-the-shelf Orin NX at this point?
I'm not sure if we already knew this, but Orin is fabbed on Samsung's 8nm: NVIDIA Orin Brings Arm and Ampere to the Edge at Hot Chips 34. The article references the larger Orin, but I assume Orin NX will be fabbed by Samsung as well. If that's right, Orin NX is on a cheap process (heck, could Samsung 8nm be cheaper or comparable to TSMC 16nm?) and presumably Samsung has ample capacity to supply a Switch 2.
The OG Switch uses between 10W and 15W. The Orin NX 8GB (6-core CPU) and the NX 16 GB (8-core) are both configurable between 10W and 25W: Nvidia's Orin Tech Page. Both use (or can use) the smaller physical package (69.6mm x 45mm). The 16GB version is due out in September.
If yields are sufficient, it should be possible to tune the 8-core, 1024 CUDA Core (Ampere) version of the chip to 10W and power the screen and joy-cons and other components in the remaining 5 or so watts, right? Laser off the DLA and other accelerates that aren't needed to save power? Or for yields and power, are we going to see Nintendo opt for the 6-core CPU and possibly cutdown CUDA cores?
I'd really like for a Switch 2 to launch with BOTW2 next Spring!
I'm not sure if we already knew this, but Orin is fabbed on Samsung's 8nm: NVIDIA Orin Brings Arm and Ampere to the Edge at Hot Chips 34. The article references the larger Orin, but I assume Orin NX will be fabbed by Samsung as well. If that's right, Orin NX is on a cheap process (heck, could Samsung 8nm be cheaper or comparable to TSMC 16nm?) and presumably Samsung has ample capacity to supply a Switch 2.
The OG Switch uses between 10W and 15W. The Orin NX 8GB (6-core CPU) and the NX 16 GB (8-core) are both configurable between 10W and 25W: Nvidia's Orin Tech Page. Both use (or can use) the smaller physical package (69.6mm x 45mm). The 16GB version is due out in September.
If yields are sufficient, it should be possible to tune the 8-core, 1024 CUDA Core (Ampere) version of the chip to 10W and power the screen and joy-cons and other components in the remaining 5 or so watts, right? Laser off the DLA and other accelerates that aren't needed to save power? Or for yields and power, are we going to see Nintendo opt for the 6-core CPU and possibly cutdown CUDA cores?
I'd really like for a Switch 2 to launch with BOTW2 next Spring!
I'd prefer Nintendo use the 5nm TSMC process with a custom chip too, but it's Nintendo.... unless Nintendo is feeling flush with cash from the Switch era and feels like it must differentiate Switch 1 and 2 with graphics, we can't assume and, based on historical tendencies, shouldn't assume that Nintendo would pay for (1) a custom chip on (2) a cutting edge process. At best, a custom chip on 7nm, I suspect. But, if Orin NX can hit 10W with 8 cores, 1024 Ampere cores, and 8GB (probably) or 16 GB of LPDDR5 memory on a cheap process and despite all the other logic dedicated to irrelevant accelerators, that's probably the best value for Nintendo in lieu of a custom chip.
How did you come to that conclusion on (1)? Before Switch they were not only custom chip but several custom chips per console for generations.
