Support for Machine Learning (ML) on PS5 and Series X?

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Shifty Geezer, Mar 18, 2020.

  1. DSoup

    DSoup meh
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    14,987
    Likes Received:
    11,086
    Location:
    London, UK
    I am 1200/75 baud acoustic modem (think Wargames) Compunet service with a Commodore 64 and a black box to negate phone charges old.

    I have to go outside now and shout at some clouds.
     
    mr magoo and JPT like this.
  2. dobwal

    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2005
    Messages:
    5,704
    Likes Received:
    1,945
    My online efforts at that time mostly consisted of being on AOL chat striking up conversations with young ladies...wonders if catfishing was a thing in the mid-90s.

    I was behind the times. Had an interest in coding so took a BASIC class during the summer at the local community college and left after one day. I was like 14 and everyone else was like 8. When I looked around from my desk it felt like I had been held back 6 times and hadn't made it out of second grade. LOL
     
  3. Arwin

    Arwin Now Officially a Top 10 Poster
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    May 17, 2006
    Messages:
    18,388
    Likes Received:
    2,078
    Location:
    Maastricht, The Netherlands
    That they are smart and figured out how shallow the AI was in a very short time, and then exposed that.
     
  4. AzBat

    AzBat Agent of the Bat
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2002
    Messages:
    7,498
    Likes Received:
    4,371
    Location:
    Alma, AR
    My first BBS exploring was done on a 300 baud modem on a Osborne 1. I still have it in storage. Tried AOL a few times later on my custom built 286 using a 2400 baud modem, but local BBS were still my favorite. It wasn't until my 3rd year of college that I really started going online with something called the Internet. By then I was using 14.4 & quickly upgraded every time a new speed was available. My last dial-up was 128k ISDN before going to cable for good. Man those were exciting times. But now I feel old. :-(

    Tommy McClain
     
  5. ronvalencia

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2012
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    3
    Does PS5 GPU support double-rate FP16 that resolves into FP32 results?

    Vega RPM FP16 resolves into FP16 results.

    RX 6800 series' double-rate FP16 can resolve into FP32 results.
     
  6. ronvalencia

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2012
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    3
    ML instructions are optional features for NAVIs.

    Don't assume Vega RPM is the same as the optional NAVI mix data format capable RPM.
     

    Attached Files:

    Silent_Buddha likes this.
  7. snc

    snc
    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2013
    Messages:
    919
    Likes Received:
    668
  8. ThePissartist

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    995
    I'm liking Sony's ideas on use of AI tech. These types of solutions could eventually reduce or remove the need of mocap animations. Would be great to see more blended and natural reactions to changing environments.
     
  9. dobwal

    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2005
    Messages:
    5,704
    Likes Received:
    1,945
    Imagine being thrown off by a serious game’s animation because someone trained the AI algorithm with material for America Funniest Home Videos.

     
    Malo, ThePissartist and Silent_Buddha like this.
  10. ToTTenTranz

    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    12,138
    Likes Received:
    7,100
    Voice / MoCap actors can't be too happy with where this is going..
     
    mr magoo and ThePissartist like this.
  11. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
    Legend Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2014
    Messages:
    13,182
    Likes Received:
    16,037
    Location:
    The North
    this is largely where I expected to see a lot of ML happen. Animation and being able to connect those points of say a body properly with the environment in a fluid way. This is much more important than DLSS imo at least in the console scene. We can get away with other methods of reconstruction because that's not what consoles are about really - but polishing the game details themselves is where I want to see ML attention focused.
     
  12. mr magoo

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    May 31, 2012
    Messages:
    193
    Likes Received:
    322
    Location:
    Stockholm
    fully agree animations like this https://www.dynamixyz.com/software will make games to have a wow factor and feel really next gen. It will have much bigger impact on overall presentation than a simple res boost.
     
  13. ronvalencia

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2012
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    3
    That's not a confirmation for the mix data mode ML feature.

    Normal Vega RPM can do ML with higher limitations.
     
  14. snc

    snc
    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2013
    Messages:
    919
    Likes Received:
    668
    That is example of ml usage, this topic is not only about confirmation for mix data capbilities
     
    dobwal, iroboto and Silent_Buddha like this.
  15. ronvalencia

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2012
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    3
    ML can run on any DX11 GPU, the debate is about efficiency i.e. which hardware is more suitable to machine learning.

    Any DX11 GPU can execute lesser data types for ML but it's without double rate or quad-rate or octa-rate processing.

    NAVI 10 baseline IP has double rate INT16 and FP16. The double rate INT16 feature can process INT4 and INT 8 at a double rate processing.

    Microsoft is claiming Series X offers 49 TOPS for 8-bit integer operations and 97 TOPS for 4-bit integer operations.

    NVIDIA's RTX Tensor cores are the ideal hardware ML.
     
    PSman1700 likes this.
  16. snc

    snc
    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2013
    Messages:
    919
    Likes Received:
    668
    yeah, I think almost everybody in this topic know this facts ;)
     
  17. Arwin

    Arwin Now Officially a Top 10 Poster
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    May 17, 2006
    Messages:
    18,388
    Likes Received:
    2,078
    Location:
    Maastricht, The Netherlands
    I'm still waiting for a game to actually show that this topic is even worth discussing ... But in the meantime, we should probably agree that there are three categories of neural network ML use on consoles:

    Neural Network Models
    1. Use the end-product of NNML in a game, e.g. an animation, even when several are blended, that was generated from an ML model, but is static data in the game.
    2. Use the ML model in a game, e.g. an animation is generated applying a previously (cloud) trained ML model. An animation can be controlled from this model, but it will still always generally behave the same way in the same situation, but it can handle just about any situation old or new, from the parameters and rules calculated from the model that was derived from the training model.
    3. Use actual ML training model in a game, e.g. there is an adaptive neural network in the game code that learns from input from the player, all players, in any shape or form

    From there, we can discuss whether specific hardware and/or API features help any of these categories and how, and how they fit into games.

    Additionally, there are other forms of machine learning that do not use Neural Networks, that we should probably also discuss.
     
    Johnny Awesome likes this.
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...