STM pulls the plug on Kyro
- Thread starter rake
- Start date
The problem will be getting someone to finalise and produce the chips. I suppose if all else fails PowerVR themselves could source out the manufacture, but this would not sit well with the IP Licensing structure they have, and would simply make them the same as nVidia, ATI etc.
It's fairly obvious that they have no clear buyer at the moment otherwise the announcement would have been held until the deal had gone through. The problem will be if the division doesn't get sold quickly, ST might then just sell it to the highest bidder just to get rid of it.
This situation could go either way, if the right buyer is found it could be the best thing to happen to PowerVR. If it's not the right buyer then it might end in a mess.
The concerning thing is the fact that ImgTec probably do not want the same that we do. We want someone to buy who will take PowerVR high end, the just want someone who is going to sell shed loads of chips, which would probably mean integrated graphics or low end once again.
It's fairly obvious that they have no clear buyer at the moment otherwise the announcement would have been held until the deal had gone through. The problem will be if the division doesn't get sold quickly, ST might then just sell it to the highest bidder just to get rid of it.
This situation could go either way, if the right buyer is found it could be the best thing to happen to PowerVR. If it's not the right buyer then it might end in a mess.
The concerning thing is the fact that ImgTec probably do not want the same that we do. We want someone to buy who will take PowerVR high end, the just want someone who is going to sell shed loads of chips, which would probably mean integrated graphics or low end once again.
PVR_Extremist
Newcomer
No, he said "VideoLogic will continue to support PowerVR chips with future products"
Since they have Series 4 finished and are probably well down the road of Series 5, why wouldnt anyone logically conclude that those future Videologic systems products would be series 4 and 5 based?
Joe DeFuria
Legend
What is missing here, which kinda makes this speculation useless until we find out, is knowing EXACTLY what the IMG-Tech team provides to the chip-seller in terms of "design."
We know IMG-Tech develops IP, and licenses it to chip-makers/sellers. I'm pretty sure IMG-Tech does not actually design the shipping silicon.
There's a big difference between selling IP that goes into making chips, vs. selling the chip design itself.
So the question is, how much actual "silicon design" does IMG-Tech do? (And subsequently, how much engineering resources must be provided by the chip-seller toward designing the actual product?)
We know IMG-Tech develops IP, and licenses it to chip-makers/sellers. I'm pretty sure IMG-Tech does not actually design the shipping silicon.
There's a big difference between selling IP that goes into making chips, vs. selling the chip design itself.
So the question is, how much actual "silicon design" does IMG-Tech do? (And subsequently, how much engineering resources must be provided by the chip-seller toward designing the actual product?)
Johnny Rotten
Regular
Must.... resist... obvious.... jokes!!
Read the interview. They say that the Radeon 8500 / LE is for the highend, the Radeon AllinWonder 7500 ( I didn't specify this cause it is in the interview ) for the Video-guys and the Kyro3 for the mainstream ( in between the words ( and when you want to read their word that way), when they say that the Kyro3 could be the next Kyro product with all the low prices explicity pointed out )
If it is as fast or faster than an Radeon 8500 / LE and has the same or more features then it makes no sense to sell this cards cheap. So if the Kyro3 is fast, then it is no longer an mainstream-product; if not then it surely is.
EEK...
They seem to have no purchaser yet and no one in sight too.
Otherwise this defending statement would make no sense at all. Seems IMG is in _BIG_ trouble at the moment. I _really_ hope they can resolve this fast.
Manfred
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: mboeller on 2002-02-12 20:45 ]</font>
What does that have to do with your assumption that Kyro III would have less features then 7500? Unless you mean less features then the all in wonder 7500, as in video features, but then why would you ever expect to see a Kyro III with all in wonder type features? So basically they said that Radeon 8500 would be for the highend (DX8.1 features), Kyro III would be for the mainstream (DX7 features with maybe free FSAA ect) and all in wonder 7500 would be for the people who want video editing stuff.. so whats suprising there?
Its pretty clear that it won't have as advanced features as 8500 though.. nobody thinks it will. It might just be faster then cards like 8500 but without DX8. It was your comment on it having less features then a 7500 that puzzled me.
If you read it again it actually looks more like David is saying that Videologic will continue to make cards based on PowerVR chips not that VDO will actually make the chips themselves. Also why would his comments mean that STM don't have a buyer?.. you really think he's going to admit to that? His comments sound more like he just can't say wether STM have a buyer or not and so he's reasuring people that if the worst happened even then IMGTEC would be fine and would continue to develop there PowerVR tech and licence it.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Teasy on 2002-02-12 22:45 ]</font>
I'd guess a buyer will be announced this month sometime and possible they will announce Series 4 along with it.
But I still do not understand why this announcement was made if they were already in discussions with people. It was obviously going to hurt ImgTec A LOT, so why not hold off the announcement until the deal is going through?
But I still do not understand why this announcement was made if they were already in discussions with people. It was obviously going to hurt ImgTec A LOT, so why not hold off the announcement until the deal is going through?
There are legal and stock market related rules in terms of selling part of your company. I assume there must be a delay between announcing your intention to sell and actually doing it. I don't think a company can just go "Hey, we sold these divisions because we felt like it.". Then again I am no expert at all on these topics.
excerp from electronicsweekly.com
Imagination is positive after ST's PC graphics exit
Richard Ball
STMicroelectronics’ decision last week to exit the PC graphics chip business could have a positive outcome for its technology partner Imagination Technologies.
The French-Italian chip company licenses Imagination's PowerVR graphics processor core for use in its Kyro and Kyro II chips, but has decided not to continue in the market.
“While we’re disappointed, if they can sell this business to someone, it could be a very good outcome,†Hossein Yassaie, CEO of Imagination, told Electronics Weekly.
ST made just $15m in revenue last year from graphics chips, a figure which could be improved by a buyer, leading to higher royalties for Imagination. ST announced last week it would be exiting the graphics chip business.
Talks with a potential buyer have been confirmed. “ST is in discussion with a company at the moment,†said a spokeswoman for ST.
Yassaie said UK-based Imagination is supporting ST at these discussions: “We are talking to the people involved,†he said.
Moreover, he claimed several other chip firms have approached Imagination with a view to licensing the PowerVR design.
Although ST is leaving the PC graphics chip sector, its work with Imagination will continue in other markets.
“Basically our relationship with ST has a number of facets. We work with them in PC and set-top boxes,†Yassaie pointed out. “And we expect to extend this into mobile applications.â€
ST first licensed the PowerVR architecture three years ago, and has produced two generations of graphics chip. Last year it shipped around one million devices into the 50 million device market.
As recently as last June ST took a further licence for the next generations of PowerVR.
However, the spokeswoman said: “ST is focusing on business where it can achieve worldwide leadership.†These areas include comms, automotive, smartcards and digital consumer products, which includes set-top box, DVD and digital TV
Imagination is positive after ST's PC graphics exit
Richard Ball
STMicroelectronics’ decision last week to exit the PC graphics chip business could have a positive outcome for its technology partner Imagination Technologies.
The French-Italian chip company licenses Imagination's PowerVR graphics processor core for use in its Kyro and Kyro II chips, but has decided not to continue in the market.
“While we’re disappointed, if they can sell this business to someone, it could be a very good outcome,†Hossein Yassaie, CEO of Imagination, told Electronics Weekly.
ST made just $15m in revenue last year from graphics chips, a figure which could be improved by a buyer, leading to higher royalties for Imagination. ST announced last week it would be exiting the graphics chip business.
Talks with a potential buyer have been confirmed. “ST is in discussion with a company at the moment,†said a spokeswoman for ST.
Yassaie said UK-based Imagination is supporting ST at these discussions: “We are talking to the people involved,†he said.
Moreover, he claimed several other chip firms have approached Imagination with a view to licensing the PowerVR design.
Although ST is leaving the PC graphics chip sector, its work with Imagination will continue in other markets.
“Basically our relationship with ST has a number of facets. We work with them in PC and set-top boxes,†Yassaie pointed out. “And we expect to extend this into mobile applications.â€
ST first licensed the PowerVR architecture three years ago, and has produced two generations of graphics chip. Last year it shipped around one million devices into the 50 million device market.
As recently as last June ST took a further licence for the next generations of PowerVR.
However, the spokeswoman said: “ST is focusing on business where it can achieve worldwide leadership.†These areas include comms, automotive, smartcards and digital consumer products, which includes set-top box, DVD and digital TV
Roger Kohli
Newcomer
I don't quite understand this. ST want to sell their graphics division, but still want to use PowerVR in set-top boxes and mobile devices. Won't they still need a graphics division for that? Or are they just selling their PC graphics part (which would seem daft as there must be a huge overlap)? Or are they intending to buy PowerVR chips off of whoever buys their graphics division (no, can't be right, they sell chips to others)?
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Roger Kohli on 2002-02-14 13:41 ]</font>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Roger Kohli on 2002-02-14 13:41 ]</font>
Well, if they purchase the core for their set tops only, they don't have to worry about drivers for the general public--it only has to work in their application.
At that point, it becomes much much much simpler to handle support.
At that point, it becomes much much much simpler to handle support.
Concerning Intel...
Where Intel has lost the most ground to AMD is with gamers, particularly those on a budget, right? A quality integrated chipset would make cheap Intel CPUs more attractive to the budget gamer. Also, a quality high-end AIB bundled to OEMs with fast P4s would boost the chances of Intel based PCs with richer gamers.
Intel buying STMicro's gfx division could be very good for the development of PowerVR technology, and for IMG's turnover. It wouldn't be so good for people who don't like Intel, although IMG wouldn't have any reason not to optimise drivers for AMD systems.
OTOH... what about SGI?
Where Intel has lost the most ground to AMD is with gamers, particularly those on a budget, right? A quality integrated chipset would make cheap Intel CPUs more attractive to the budget gamer. Also, a quality high-end AIB bundled to OEMs with fast P4s would boost the chances of Intel based PCs with richer gamers.
Intel buying STMicro's gfx division could be very good for the development of PowerVR technology, and for IMG's turnover. It wouldn't be so good for people who don't like Intel, although IMG wouldn't have any reason not to optimise drivers for AMD systems.
OTOH... what about SGI?