Starfield to use FSR2 only, exclude DLSS2/3 and XeSS: concerns and implications *spawn*

SmooTh said:
As expected
www.pcgamesn.com

Starfield datamine shows no sign of Nvidia DLSS or Intel XeSS

Investigations into the Starfield preload files reveal a distinct lack of Nvidia DLSS or Intel XeSS footprints, suggesting it will only support AMD FSR.
www.pcgamesn.com www.pcgamesn.com
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Even if the game shipped with these libraries it doesn't guarantee anything, Godfall shipped with the DLSS library in the game files, yet it was never enabled to this day. The game has an FSR1 implementation only, due to it's marketing deal with AMD.
 
DSoup said:
If AMD are confident about FSR3 and how it performance to DLSS, why not permit Microsoft to include DLSS support in Starfield?

So people can compare the two implementations for themselves.
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I have no idea. I am only passing on the rumor.

I'd imagine just like games that are DLSS only AMD has invested some type of resource into starfield in exchange for marketing rights and FSR to be the featured upscaling.

Remember all the "the way its meant to be played" titles from nvidia that had certain features only found on nvidia chips ? Its a similar thing

At the very least FSR works on basically ever gpu out there that is still supported by their manufacturer.
 
Unless the underlying tech of fsr is greatly improved, adding frame gen to the already major issues of artefacting, shimmering and picture noise that fsr has in motion is going to be horrific.

Using screenshots comparing upscaling tech is easy to present but borderline deceptive as the issues for any upscaling tech are most notable in motion.
 
It's par for course since the IHV that callously dismissed consoles frequently don't deserve to have a say in how their proprietary technology should proliferate. They had it totally coming in their way one way or another ...
 
Lurkmass said:
It's par for course since the IHV that callously dismissed consoles frequently don't deserve to have a say in how their proprietary technology should proliferate. They had it totally coming in their way one way or another ...
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How does this impact Nvidia? This only impacts Nvidia's customers. Moves like this - from both AMD and Nvidia - target consumers, who are customers now and who might be future customers.
 
DSoup said:
How does this impact Nvidia? This only impacts Nvidia's customers. Moves like this - from both AMD and Nvidia - target consumers, who are customers now and who might be future customers.
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It doesn't for the most part but if their customers are going to openly support them in creating walled gardens then they absolutely should accept both the positives and negatives of that strategy with no qualms about it exactly like many of Apple's customers as well. By no means is it wrong for the industry to shun them for it ...
 
DavidGraham said:
due to it's marketing deal with AMD.
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While for some AMD not outright clearly stating they don't or do prevent dev from implementing DLSS/XeSS apparently is proof for some, it's convenient how they ignore the AMD sponsored titles which do have DLSS and/or XeSS too.
I don't remember anyone complaining about games implementing DLSS but not XeSS or FSR, sponsored or not.
Could you please stop spreading these double standards?
 
Kaotik said:
it's convenient how they ignore the AMD sponsored titles which do have DLSS and/or XeSS too.
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Those are a minority and the exception to the rule. The vast majority of FSR titles sponsored by AMD don't have any other upscaler.

Kaotik said:
I don't remember anyone complaining about games implementing DLSS but not XeSS or FSR, sponsored or not.
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Most DLSS games now implement the other upscalers, NVIDIA even developed a tool to help developers do just that. Also NVIDIA came out and flat out denied any wrong doings, contrary to AMD.

Kaotik said:
Could you please stop spreading these double standards?
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No double standards here, just AMD caught doing something fishy, the double standards would be defending such thing.
 
RobertR1 said:
Unless the underlying tech of fsr is greatly improved, adding frame gen to the already major issues of artefacting, shimmering and picture noise that fsr has in motion is going to be horrific.

Using screenshots comparing upscaling tech is easy to present but borderline deceptive as the issues for any upscaling tech are most notable in motion.
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It's my understanding that FSR keepds improving. That 2.0 is a big improvement over 1.0. DLSS sucked at the beginning also and has been around longer so has had more time to get better.
DavidGraham said:
Those are a minority and the exception to the rule. The vast majority of FSR titles sponsored by AMD don't have any other upscaler.


Most DLSS games now implement the other upscalers, NVIDIA even developed a tool to help developers do just that. Also NVIDIA came out and flat out denied any wrong doings, contrary to AMD.


No double standards here, just AMD caught doing something fishy, the double standards would be defending such thing.
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So it's okay when Nvidia does it because its a minority and exception to the rule. But Nvidia has more deals for games than AMD. So even if the vast majority of AMD sponsored titles only support FSR that would still work out to around the amount of titles that only have dlss support. Also again with FSR at least Nvidia's can use it. DLSS doesn't work on any other graphics card but NVidia and only the 2000 series and above. 3.0 only works on 4000 and above.

You say AMD is doing something fishy ? But its just what nvidia does.
 
eastmen said:
You say AMD is doing something fishy ? But its just what nvidia does.
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NVIDIA doesn't block developers from using FSR or XeSS. AMD does in their sponsored games, most AMD sponsored titles forbid the developers from using other upscalers, when asked directly, AMD couldn't even deny that.

On the other hand NVIDIA sponsored ones don't block developers from doing anything, most sposored titles from NVIDIA implement FSR or XeSS or both at or after launch, there are exceptions to that of course. But NVIDIA developed a special tool that helps developers implement DLSS and FSR and XeSS together.
eastmen said:
Also again with FSR at least Nvidia's can use it
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Vast majority of GPUs are NVIDIA anyway. So what you are doing is forcing NVIDIA users to work with a sub optimal solution because of some marketing deal that only benefits very few.
 
DavidGraham said:
NVIDIA doesn't block developers from using FSR or XeSS. AMD does in their sponsored games, most AMD sponsored titles forbid the developers from using other upscalers, when asked directly, AMD couldn't even deny that.

On the other hand NVIDIA sponsored ones don't block developers from doing anything, most sposored titles from NVIDIA implement FSR or XeSS or both at or after launch, there are exceptions to that of course. But NVIDIA developed a special tool that helps developers implement DLSS and FSR and XeSS together.

Vast majority of GPUs are NVIDIA anyway. So what you are doing is forcing NVIDIA users to work with a sub optimal solution because of some marketing deal that only benefits very few.
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Wait. FSR doesn’t work on nvidia GPUs? I’m pretty sure it does
 
DavidGraham said:
NVIDIA doesn't block developers from using FSR or XeSS. AMD does in their sponsored games, most AMD sponsored titles forbid the developers from using other upscalers, when asked directly, AMD couldn't even deny that.

On the other hand NVIDIA sponsored ones don't block developers from doing anything, most sposored titles from NVIDIA implement FSR or XeSS or both at or after launch, there are exceptions to that of course. But NVIDIA developed a special tool that helps developers implement DLSS and FSR and XeSS together.

Vast majority of GPUs are NVIDIA anyway. So what you are doing is forcing NVIDIA users to work with a sub optimal solution because of some marketing deal that only benefits very few.
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So you are okay with games that skip over amd and intel users because they only support dlss but are upset that some games have FSR only that works for all graphics card users ? You realize there is a huge amount of gamers out there with only 1000 series nvidia cards that don't get dlss ? You realize that there are a huge amount of gamers with only 2000/3000 series cards that don't get DLSS 3 . But all of them get FSR as do all the neglected amd and intel users.

You say FSR is suboptimal but I would say its suboptimal to have no option at all because you own hardware that is locked out of using advanced upscaling technology.

Perhaps Nvidia should work on having DLSS work on all video cards and then it would never be a suboptimal choice.
 
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Malo said:
I don't think many really care about frame generation, more so the DLSS2 upscaler technology which is considered to be higher quality than FSR2.
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After experiencing frame generation in Witcher 3 I now care a lot about it. And framegen is absolutely perfect for a game like Starfield (CPU heavy and single player).

I'd wager most folks who don't care about DLSS3/frame generation have never used it. I was in that boat until I got my 4070. It is incredible.
 
homerdog said:
After experiencing frame generation in Witcher 3 I now care a lot about it. And framegen is absolutely perfect for a game like Starfield (CPU heavy and single player).

I'd wager most folks who don't care about DLSS3/frame generation have never used it. I was in that boat until I got my 4070. It is incredible.
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Everyone will move towards this technology over time, nvidia just got there first but others will definitely follow.
 
eastmen said:
You say FSR is suboptimal but I would say its suboptimal to have no option at all because you own hardware that is locked out of using advanced upscaling technology.
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Most of the DLSS1/DLSS2 only titles came before FSR1 was introduced, or came before FSR2 was introduced (because FSR1 was simple and bad). Right now, most NVIDIA sponsored titles implement all three upscalers, like Ratchet and Clank, Spider-Man Miles Morales, Cyberpunk 2077, The Withcer 3, Atomic Heart, Dying Light 2, F1 2023, Forza Horizon 5, Warhammer Darktide .. etc.

What's optimal is to have all upscaling solutions available now, especially as they don't cost much to implement once you implement one of them. But we can't have that in AMD sponsored titles because they actively block the developers from doing so.
 
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DavidGraham said:
But we can't have that in AMD sponsored titles because they actively block the developers from doing so.
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Correction: You assume they are doing so because they haven't outright denied it and there are games sponsored by AMD with only FSR while ignoring the fact that there are games sponsored by AMD that do have DLSS and/or XeSS too.
 
DavidGraham said:
But we can't have that in AMD sponsored titles because they actively block the developers from doing so.
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Wasn't AMD supposed to come "clean" after the problematic RDNA 3 introduction/launch? It's not like it's some super secret company marketing strategy people can't figure out, but is there anything to be ashamed about regarding buying off game developers to exclude rival gpu technology? God forbid we start to play tit-for-tat and create sponsorships through secret payoff budgets, but if it comes to that Nvidia and Intel will likely have the upper hand as both already endorse a combined upscaling approach via Streamline.
 
DavidGraham said:
Most of the DLSS1/DLSS2 only titles came before FSR1 was introduced, or came before FSR2 was introduced (because FSR1 was simple and bad). Right now, most NVIDIA sponsored titles implement all three upscalers, like Ratchet and Clank, Spider-Man Miles Morales, Cyberpunk 2077, The Withcer 3, Atomic Heart, Dying Light 2, F1 2023, Forza Horizon 5, Warhammer Darktide .. etc.

What's optimal is to have all upscaling solutions available now, especially as they don't cost much to implement once you implement one of them. But we can't have that in AMD sponsored titles because they actively block the developers from doing so.
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Most
Most
Most
Most

See what you keep doing here ?

Sure what is most optional is to have all solutions but this isn't a perfect world and like you have admitted not every DLSS game has FSR even ones after the release of FSR. So again all cards can use FSR but not all cards can run DLSS and even less can run DLSS 2.0

So it really seems like a bunch of BS to call out AMD for this while excusing Nvidia for the same behavior.
 
Kaotik said:
Correction: You assume they are doing so because they haven't outright denied it and there are games sponsored by AMD with only FSR while ignoring the fact that there are games sponsored by AMD that do have DLSS and/or XeSS too.
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Not all deals are the same. Some deals are partial, other are full on exclusive features. AMD seems to be practicing that later type alot lately. When asked directly about it they either dodged the question or said "no comment", even after being pressed on for answers from GamersNexus, HardwareUnboxed, PCGamer, and DigitalFoundry.

eastmen said:
So it really seems like a bunch of BS to call out AMD for this while excusing Nvidia for the same behavior.
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Once more, NVIDIA doesn't block developers from doing this, they also provide tools for developers to implement other upsacalers, AMD blocks and doesn't provide any tools. You need to understand the distinction. There is a big difference here.
 
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