Starbreeze take on the Ps3 vs Xbox 360 (the Darkness Int)

[therealskywolf]

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/704/704421p1.html

IGN: What is it like to program and design the game for Xbox 360 versus the PlayStation 3? We're not looking to start a blood war here. We're more interested in what it's like to program for each, and what each one's strengths and weaknesses seem to be? Also, how do you foresee the two versions differing in the final product visually, gameplay-wise, sound wise?

Magnus Högdahl: The PS3 will have a content size advantage with blu-ray and a CPU advantage for titles that are able to utilize a lot of the SPUs. The Xbox360 has a slight GPU advantage and its general purpose triple-core CPU is relatively easy to utilize compared to SPUs. I expect that it will be near impossible to tell Xbox360 and PS3 screenshots apart.

 

[zRifle1z]

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/704/704421p1.html

IGN: What is it like to program and design the game for Xbox 360 versus the PlayStation 3? We're not looking to start a blood war here. We're more interested in what it's like to program for each, and what each one's strengths and weaknesses seem to be? Also, how do you foresee the two versions differing in the final product visually, gameplay-wise, sound wise?

Magnus Högdahl: The PS3 will have a content size advantage with blu-ray and a CPU advantage for titles that are able to utilize a lot of the SPUs. The Xbox360 has a slight GPU advantage and its general purpose triple-core CPU is relatively easy to utilize compared to SPUs. I expect that it will be near impossible to tell Xbox360 and PS3 screenshots apart.

Thanks for the Link. I truly hope Starbreeze makes a Riddick sequel. Enclave with online capability would be nice too. PS3 owners are in for a treat with games developed by Starbreeze. Nice to hear some honesty on the + and -'s of the systems.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Kind of stating the obvious, but at least he's saying something. Interesting he gives the 360 the gpu advantage, it's been strongly hinted around here this is not the case.

 

[therealskywolf]

Awww, poor liddle Magnus can't dump his DirectX code onto the PS3...

? Poor ****** you?

Thats the cold hard truth guys, these guys know their Tech.

Kind of stating the obvious, but at least he's saying something. Interesting he gives the 360 the gpu advantage, it's been strongly hinted around here this is not the case.

By who

I've known this for months.

 

[dukmahsik]

Kind of stating the obvious, but at least he's saying something. Interesting he gives the 360 the gpu advantage, it's been strongly hinted around here this is not the case.

now scooby, I strongly object to that. Most of us common sensed folks knew the truth long ago.

 

[rounin]

now scooby, I strongly object to that. Most of us common sensed folks knew the truth long ago.

I think he was either being sarcastic or playing the victim to further the point. I personally think that around here the enthusiasm for Xenos far exceeds that for RSX (as I said in my thread) to the point that it basically seemed to be the perfect chip .

 

[scooby_dooby]

now scooby, I strongly object to that. Most of us common sensed folks knew the truth long ago.

i figured as much back when nvidia and sony vaguely stated they'd been 'working together' for 2 years, and it was obvious they were getting basically an off the shelf gpu. Just made sense that the custom part would be have some advantages.

This is just one guy's opinion though, and really the key part is this: "I expect that it will be near impossible to tell Xbox360 and PS3 screen shots apart."

 

[The_Standard]

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/704/704421p1.html

Magnus Högdahl: I expect that it will be near impossible to tell Xbox360 and PS3 screenshots apart.

Interesting and expected, especially for a port, no? But when was the last time you played a screenshot?

That says nothing about whether there will be a difference in physics and animation quality when the games are actually in motion.

I'll hold judgement until direct gameplay comparisons can be made.

 

[AlNom]

Interesting and expected, especially for a port, no? But when was the last time you played a screenshot?

That says nothing about whether there will be a difference in physics and animation quality when the games are actually in motion.

I suppose that's why he worded his answer the way he did.

 

[Farid]

A reminder

This is a technical board, so do comment only if you add to the technical discussion, whatever it is.


That said, I don't know what there's to discuss in this case, I thought that most people by now understood that complex IC architectures couldn't be simplified to a simple number, be it Flops, Pixel or Texel Fillrate, etc...
This imply that even simplier generalizations such as "it has a CPU advantage" or "it has a slight GPU advantage", are even more meaningless.

Abou the GPU, or even the CPU in a certain manner, different architectures, with more or less the same transistor counts, released around the same timeframe can't be compared in a simple manner. Both will have advantages and disavantages.

It will never be all black or all white. Let's try to learn that and accept it.
And no, it won't matter how much fan persons want their championed piece of Consumer Electronic entertainment device to be the be all end all. In the end, it won't be.

 

[AlNom]

Given the stencil based engine, both platforms should be well suited to it... I'm not too well in the know, but what could possibly be better about Xenos in this situation (barring the shader power because it doesn't seem like that would be an issue)? Bandwidth?

His comments about the CPUs and the storage are pretty much common sense though, no? I'd figure symmetric MP would be much easier to deal with (when looking at an algorithm).

 

[ROG27]

This is a technical board, so do comment only if you add to the technical discussion, whatever it is.


That said, I don't know what there's to discuss in this case, I thought that most people by now understood that complex IC architectures couldn't be simplified to a simple number, be it Flops, Pixel or Texel Fillrate, etc...
This imply that even simplier generalizations such as "it has a CPU advantage" or "it has a slight GPU advantage", are even more meaningless.

Abou the GPU, or even the CPU in a certain manner, different architectures, with more or less the same transistor counts, released around the same timeframe can't be compared in a simple manner. Both will have advantages and disavantages.

It will never be all black or all white. Let's try to learn that and accept it.
And no, it won't matter how much fan persons want their championed piece of Consumer Electronic entertainment device to be the be all end all. In the end, it won't be.

Asking a cross-platform developer which version of a multi-platform game is going to be superior will not end well. He's going to give a political answer. Multi-platform games are usually made to look and perform similarly across all platforms for political reasons as well as time-constraint issues during development. The fact that the game is using a game engine not tailored for a specific platform should also give away the game will look nearly identical cross-platform. It's usually limited by the lowest common denominator.

 

[dukmahsik]

Asking a cross-platform developer which version of a multi-platform game is going to be superior will not end well. He's going to give a political answer. Multi-platform games are usually made to look and perform similarly across all platforms for political reasons as well as time-constraint issues during development. The fact that the game is using a game engine not tailored for a specific platform should also give away the game will look nearly identical cross-platform. It's usually limited by the lowest common denominator.

yeah sure if the dev is EA-like, but no if the dev is ubi-like

 

[Kabbage]

It is only the truth when your console has the advantage.

Flip it and it is either "just one developer" or "Multiplatform games never take full advantage of the hardware".


*Off Topic*

When were final kits supposed to be going out... Because after listening to some recent audio... it seems devs are still running on those giant boxes.

 

[_phil_]

Magnus Högdahl: I expect that it will be near impossible to tell Xbox360 and PS3 screenshots apart.

hmm. i think the hint is there,Watson.Static screen will look ok the same.
There is still ahell lot of room for Interactivity ,dynamics ,framerate... to show disparity.

 

[kabacha]

hmm. i think the hint is there,Watson.Static screen will look ok the same.
There is still ahell lot of room for Interactivity ,dynamics ,framerate... to show disparity.

looking at history, PS2 is a sort of minicell and had 6 Gflops and was hard to program for. Xbox 1 was 2.5 Gflops and was easier to program for . Xbox games looked better than PS2 games because the GPU made the difference as well as the memory

This time PS3 is a buffed up EE with theoritically 170-180 Gflops and Xbox 360 having 118 theoritical Gflops but we have a GPU in Xbox 360 which has an advantage over RSX

By the time the developers learn to utilise more and more resources to SPEs. the developers will also start to use Directx10 cards in a major way and will apply those techniques to the continuously updated API of the Xbox 360 GPU which has features of Dx10 such as less overhead through Unified Shader Architecture.

The difference this generation just like last generation will be a battle of GPUs because its the GPUs which has to process whatever the Cell throws at it. the CPUs can perform calculations but its upto the GPUs to output those calculations.

In the end both Xbox 360 and PS3 games will look alike. This might also give advantage to Wii as more unique and more exclusives will be available to taht console.

Anyone who actually thinks the difference between Xbox 360 and PS3 will be more than the previous generation difference of Xbox and GC is seriously mistaken.

 

[Mythos]

Nothing too revealing about his impression on both platforms and vague....

"and a CPU advantage for titles that are able to utilize a lot of the SPUs."

Utilize a lot of the SPUs...what does that equate to...better graphics,animation,AI, physics,effects?

Lastly, in context with what he is saying is that the game The Darkness...

"Also, how do you foresee the two versions differing in the final product visually, gameplay-wise, sound wise?"

"I expect that it will be near impossible to tell Xbox360 and PS3 screenshots apart."

Not too revealing....

 

[Titanio]

looking at history, PS2 is a sort of minicell and had 6 Gflops and was hard to program for. Xbox 1 was 2.5 Gflops and was easier to program for . Xbox games looked better than PS2 games because the GPU made the difference as well as the memory

This time PS3 is a buffed up EE with theoritically 170-180 Gflops and Xbox 360 having 118 theoritical Gflops but we have a GPU in Xbox 360 which has an advantage over RSX

a) You somehow decreased PS3's CPU flop rating and increased Xenon's?

b) In the context of a comparison with PS2 and Xbox, drawing a parallel and saying 'we have a GPU in Xbox 360 which has an advantage over RSX', as if to suggest it's anything near the situation we had with PS2 and Xbox is highly misleading. This dev considers Xenos to have a slight advantage..others might consider RSX to have an advantage (and have in fact said so) given that both have advantages over the other in different areas, and it'll depend what is important to one dev.

 

[ROG27]

looking at history, PS2 is a sort of minicell and had 6 Gflops and was hard to program for. Xbox 1 was 2.5 Gflops and was easier to program for . Xbox games looked better than PS2 games because the GPU made the difference as well as the memory

This time PS3 is a buffed up EE with theoritically 170-180 Gflops and Xbox 360 having 118 theoritical Gflops but we have a GPU in Xbox 360 which has an advantage over RSX

By the time the developers learn to utilise more and more resources to SPEs. the developers will also start to use Directx10 cards in a major way and will apply those techniques to the continuously updated API of the Xbox 360 GPU which has features of Dx10 such as less overhead through Unified Shader Architecture.

The difference this generation just like last generation will be a battle of GPUs because its the GPUs which has to process whatever the Cell throws at it. the CPUs can perform calculations but its upto the GPUs to output those calculations.

In the end both Xbox 360 and PS3 games will look alike. This might also give advantage to Wii as more unique and more exclusives will be available to taht console.

Anyone who actually thinks the difference between Xbox 360 and PS3 will be more than the previous generation difference of Xbox and GC is seriously mistaken.

Your thinking that GPU-centric game design will prevail this upcoming generation is seriously flawed. There is going to be a serious paradigm shift in game development soon when consumers become tired of the same level of interaction being stapled to prettier pictures. Uncanny valley is rearing it's ugly head. A more CPU-centric game design process is the solution. A more powerful CPU is better than slightly more efficient GPU IMO. If the games on both consoles output nearly identical pictures, what then will be the differentiating factor? Something better contribute to those games being more interactive and immersive...graphical upgrades aren't going to cut it anymore. If I can run realtime simulations and have physics-based interaction occurring...along with better AI, the gameworld will be affected both visually and gameplay-wise. Consumers will definitely be happy about that. Pretty pictures are skin-deep, and they get old pretty fast. Nintendo is teaching this all over again.

 

[Fafalada]

Given the stencil based engine, both platforms should be well suited to it... I'm not too well in the know, but what could possibly be better about Xenos in this situation (barring the shader power because it doesn't seem like that would be an issue)? Bandwidth?

Straight stencil rendering is basically the poster child for transparent overdraw. So it pretty much comes down to how fast you can fill pixels.

On paper it would be tempting to pick the chip with eDram for that, but I've also seen arguments that suggest GPUs using external memory can reach near theoretical peaks with zixel fill just the same - which could tip the balance in favour of chip with more ROPs/higher clock.

Shaders don't really come into play at all unless we're talking about some fancier soft shadowing approaches - but there's no standard there to compare by(no way to guess what this or that game might go with in future), not to mention the pretty looking ones I've seen all perform exceptionally slowly.