*spin-off* View Weapon Models in Games

Rangers

Legend
-Textures so far are much worse than those in C2, all the videos released so far show low res texturing.
-Lighting, I agree, C2's is far superior.
-Shaders seem on par.
-Geometry, not at all. Buildings use very little and there's not much in terms of props or debris compared to C1.
-Particles, sometimes look good others bad. Warhead's are still the best.

Doesn't seem like C2 is much of an improvement so far.


I would say just go look at Nebulas screens or videos. Crysis 1 has a certain blandness too it that C2 far exceeds, in it's good moments.

To me Crysis 1 is a brute force texture monster. The weapon models are also just bad, very poorly lit, compared to the quality of the rest of the graphics. And weapon models are a big deal since you're staring at them all game. C1 in certain places almost had a low budget feel, compared to the animation of even top console titles like Killzone. It's a high production values game, but sometimes feels like that low budget east European PC developer quality is strong as well.

Anyways it still all depends what we are talking about, dont expect console C2 to exceed C1, that is unrealistic, but it will in some areas. PC C2 should easily be the champ.
 
I would say just go look at Nebulas screens or videos. Crysis 1 has a certain blandness too it that C2 far exceeds, in it's good moments.

So the best parts of one game compared to the worst part of the other game, eh? :LOL:


To me Crysis 1 is a brute force texture monster.

Strange view as texturing is not Crysis highlight but rather the shading and lighting system. The texture detail comes to life thanks to the fully realtime shading and lighting system unlike most other games relying on lightmaps and or baking to do it in cheaper form and worse results in a dynamic environment.


The weapon models are also just bad, very poorly lit, compared to the quality of the rest of the graphics. And weapon models are a big deal since you're staring at them all game.

It's relative, compared to the rest it is of decent to good quality. Compared to other games weapons detail it is good to very good as in texture detail, shading is excellent. But sure I would say BFBC2 probably has the best/most realistic looking weapons and some other games has to the eye more impressive looking guns. However DOF or blur on guns dont make pretty guns but if you want you can set in menu to have it like that in Crysis to by default when aiming (weapon to your side).

But anyway dont be fooled by the dark weapon look as your body casts shadows onto weapon in first person to. Best way to see them are to just enter the weapon config menu with sun at your back.

EDIT: I made newer shots instead of my old ones and hud disabled. Crysis weapon picture links below in spoiler.


gauss.jpg



Also this one shows shader quality of the As metal surface. Obviously you have to see it in motion to see the smooth shinyness transition, reflections and other shading affects it has applied. Anyway point is they are not bad and they are not "very poorly lit". Can be better, is not the best, but very poorly it aint, it's good, very good.

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/8500/metalchrome.jpg

Check out the Warhead weapons shots below to.

C1 in certain places almost had a low budget feel, compared to the animation of even top console titles like Killzone. It's a high production values game, but sometimes feels like that low budget east European PC developer quality is strong as well.

It got it's low points like most other games to, AI is not always fault free, animation system, visuals, layout etc. The more complex the games mechanics are and game open world style the more faults will be even in high budget titles. However same rings true for the other game you mentioned, bringing PS2/xbox quality to mind in certain spots/ocassions. But it's fine to compare but atleast try to not base it all on one games all worst parts/points vs all the best of the other game(s). Worst vs worst, best vs best and avg vs avg.


EDIT: Btw I find it funny Crysis is the only game used for comparision when Warhead is the sucessor to Crysis with improvements, even weapons! So is Crysis Wars. Heres cake! :p

Certainly very good and improved from Crysis weapons. Picture links from Warhead weapons below in spoiler.


akprofile.jpg
 
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stuff about guns


This is what the gun looks like most of the time you are playing. Rather dark and not as advanced as the rest of the game.

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2007/186/931665_20070706_screen001.jpg

Killzone 2 and probably even Reach have better gun models, and they are console games. It's no knock on Crytek really, I think Killzone 2 was the first game to really advance gun models in a long time. Crytek just didn't pay that much attention to them compared to the rest of the graphics. A mistake.
 
Come on, using a screenshot where you can't even see the gun? Also, that includes no attachments.

What are you talking about? The gun is clearly visible.

No, I'm not posting Nebula style attachment view pics that you only see while the game is paused...what good is that? I'm posting what you see onscreen while PLAYING for 99% of playtime. If anything posting attachment screen pics is far more disingenuous as those are not what you see while actually playing.

Attachments would not make much difference. I've beat the game I know what the gun looks like.

Actually, they had. Before E3 they relaunched the mycrisis.com site and promised that those that signed up early would get access to the beta later that year.

Link?

Also there still could be a beta. All they have told me is that they have not announced that there will be a beta.
 
No, I'm not posting Nebula style attachment view pics that you only see while the game is paused...what good is that? I'm posting what you see onscreen while PLAYING for 99% of playtime. If anything posting attachment screen pics is far more disingenuous as those are not what you see while actually playing..

If you played the game you would know that entering attachement menu doesn't pause game and it shows the guns exactly as how they are rendered in any view. Also all attachements put on are put on! They are visible, rendered when you play why else would one put attachments onto the weapons? :LOL:

Attachments would not make much difference. I've beat the game I know what the gun looks like.

Yet you provide screenshot that is not yours and cant even recon it's on high graphics settings..


This is what the gun looks like most of the time you are playing. Rather dark and not as advanced as the rest of the game.

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2007/186/931665_20070706_screen001.jpg.

I already posted how the guns look, both in profile and several in 'FPS' view of both Crysis and Warhead. Also why do you post a screen of Crysis set to high? Almost every shader is less complex in high mode. Also it looks like it's recieving player shadow partially darkening it.


Click on the spoiler tag to get it all from previous page in links. Also I edited this in, show the weapons in name AK and SCAR in all views and modes allowed by default game. As you can see I disabled shadows for one of the screenshots cropped to avoid player shadow falling onto weapon.

weaponsv.jpg




The weapon models are also just bad, very poorly lit, compared to the quality of the rest of the graphics. And weapon models are a big deal since you're staring at them all game.

It's relative, compared to the rest it is of decent to good quality. Compared to other games weapons detail it is good to very good as in texture detail, shading is excellent. But sure I would say BFBC2 probably has the best/most realistic looking weapons and some other games has to the eye more impressive looking guns. However DOF or blur on guns dont make pretty guns but if you want you can set in menu to have it like that in Crysis to by default when aiming (weapon to your side).

But anyway dont be fooled by the dark weapon look as your body casts shadows onto weapon in first person to. Best way to see them are to just enter the weapon config menu with sun at your back.

EDIT: I made newer shots instead of my old ones and hud disabled. Crysis weapon picture links below in spoiler.



http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/3172/scarp.jpg
http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/7562/52225571.jpg
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/4381/alieno.jpg
http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/2631/gauss.jpg
http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/8039/rifled.jpg


Also this one shows shader quality of the As metal surface. Obviously you have to see it in motion to see the smooth shinyness transition, reflections and other shading affects it has applied. Anyway point is they are not bad and they are not "very poorly lit". Can be better, is not the best, but very poorly it aint, it's good, very good.

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/8500/metalchrome.jpg

Check out the Warhead weapons shots below to.

EDIT: Btw I find it funny Crysis is the only game used for comparision when Warhead is the sucessor to Crysis with improvements, even weapons! So is Crysis Wars. Heres cake! :p

Certainly very good and improved from Crysis weapons. Picture links from Warhead weapons below in spoiler.


http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/3121/akfps.jpg
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/9052/akprofile.jpg

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/8598/alienprofile.jpg

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/1412/gaussprofile.jpg

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/3366/gunsfpsprof.jpg

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/6800/nadefps.jpg
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/7018/nadeprofile.jpg

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/4870/scarfps.jpg
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/1604/scarprofile.jpg

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/4025/shotgunfps.jpg



Killzone 2 and probably even Reach have better gun models, and they are console games. It's no knock on Crytek really, I think Killzone 2 was the first game to really advance gun models in a long time. Crytek just didn't pay that much attention to them compared to the rest of the graphics. A mistake.

The rifle in KZ2 is top notch in art design and seems to have nice shading. Most other weapons look bad in comparision looking like Fallout "high-res" esque weapons but less gritty.

Reach weapons dont look better, they look worse.
http://www.gamereactor.se/media/37/halo_223717b.jpg
http://www.gamereactor.se/media/37/halo_223722b.jpg
http://www.gamereactor.se/media/37/halo_223725b.jpg
http://www.gamereactor.se/media/37/halo_223724b.jpg

KZ2.
http://www.gamereactor.se/media/48/killzone2_174841b.jpg
http://www.gamereactor.se/media/13/killzone2_171313b.jpg
http://www.gamereactor.se/media/13/killzone2_171324b.jpg
http://www.gamereactor.se/media/48/killzone2_174834b.jpg
http://www.gamereactor.se/media/48/killzone2_174833b.jpg

This weapons discussion is pretty much done now. Nothing more to say but repeat same words and show same material. You been proven wrong about Crysis/Warhead weapons having 'bad looking weapons that are poorly lit/shaded' with visual evidence, deal with it.
 
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What are you talking about? The gun is clearly visible.
Yeah, the shadowed part of the gun lol.

No, I'm not posting Nebula style attachment view pics that you only see while the game is paused...what good is that? I'm posting what you see onscreen while PLAYING for 99% of playtime. If anything posting attachment screen pics is far more disingenuous as those are not what you see while actually playing.
Not really. The point was that the gun models weren't very good. The customization screens show that's not the case. The real difference between KZ and Crysis in this regard is the position of the gun on the screen, KZ's way occupies far more space and therefore the details are more visible.

Attachments would not make much difference. I've beat the game I know what the gun looks like.
Attachments do make a difference, WTH.

Link?

Also there still could be a beta. All they have told me is that they have not announced that there will be a beta.
Many sites covered it:

http://www.google.com/search?q=mycr...nt&tbs=cdr:1,cd_min:5/1/2010,cd_max:6/30/2010

Then the stress test was announced and we learned that it was all a lie just to bust subscriptions to to mycrysis...
 
The rifle in KZ2 is top notch in art design and seems to have nice shading. Most other weapons look bad in comparision looking like Fallout "high-res" esque weapons but less gritty.

Reach weapons dont look better, they look worse.
http://www.gamereactor.se/media/37/halo_223717b.jpg
http://www.gamereactor.se/media/37/halo_223722b.jpg
http://www.gamereactor.se/media/37/halo_223725b.jpg
http://www.gamereactor.se/media/37/halo_223724b.jpg

KZ2.
http://www.gamereactor.se/media/48/killzone2_174841b.jpg
http://www.gamereactor.se/media/13/killzone2_171313b.jpg
http://www.gamereactor.se/media/13/killzone2_171324b.jpg
http://www.gamereactor.se/media/48/killzone2_174834b.jpg
http://www.gamereactor.se/media/48/killzone2_174833b.jpg

This weapons discussion is pretty much done now. Nothing more to say but repeat same words and show same material. You been proven wrong about Crysis/Warhead weapons having 'bad looking weapons that are poorly lit/shaded' with visual evidence, deal with it.

Wow, KZ2 hasn't aged well. Vaseline look + 3D models almost look like 2D sprites giving it a SD/almost last gen look.

Anyways, I prefer the Halo Reach weapons there. More crisp and way more detailed, except perhaps for that last KZ2 shot.

I'd imagine Crysis 2 should be right up there with the best of them unless they really turn down the detail levels for the console versions.

Regards,
SB
 
Yeah, the shadowed part of the gun lol.


Not really. The point was that the gun models weren't very good. The customization screens show that's not the case. The real difference between KZ and Crysis in this regard is the position of the gun on the screen, KZ's way occupies far more space and therefore the details are more visible.

You can in menu set alternate gun view so when you aim it has the KZ2 weapon view. This image I posted on previous page and settles this discussion in a solid way. Shows player shadows fall onto weapon, shows weapon in one shot where I disabled shadows and also when looking down as your shadow dont fall onto it as by sun direction at location(s). Also shows alternate view mode.

weaponsv.jpg
 
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Wow, KZ2 hasn't aged well. Vaseline look + 3D models almost look like 2D sprites giving it a SD/almost last gen look.

Anyways, I prefer the Halo Reach weapons there. More crisp and way more detailed, except perhaps for that last KZ2 shot.

I'd imagine Crysis 2 should be right up there with the best of them unless they really turn down the detail levels for the console versions.

Regards,
SB

Well my only real interest was to show they are not as was claimed "poorly lit/shaded and bad looking". Rest is taste as for me what I said and Reach weapons looks to much like simple diffuse texture with sometimes glossmap, not bad as it's alright but cant see it stand out to the avg weapon quality in FPS games. Each to their own and BFBC2 weapons takes the cake according to me. And by far.. :smile:
 
Rounder barrel means more polygons doesn't it? Also the metal shader, texture work, shadows and DOF are so much more realistic than others.
Crysis 2 has a very realistic 'chrome-like' metal shader:
19.jpg


Note the handles, the sights and the metal ammo container. The alien in the centre also has a nice sheen to it.

Looking at Killzone 2 shots, the gun does tend to look really good. Though I think this is more of an artistic factor than a technical one.

What I like about GG is that they're not afraid to release proper in-game captures. Crytek have really just released touched up supersampled shots that often end up looking worse than an actual capture (as the trailer has shown).
 
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Rounder barrel means more polygons doesn't it? Also the metal shader, texture work, shadows and DOF are so much more realistic than others.
Do you have actual numbers? The SCAR in Crysis is made of 5274 triangles without attachments. Add another 3028 for the scope. I don't have the numbers for the silencer nor the grenade attachments but I suppose they add at least another 1000 to the mix.

http://www.crymod.com/thread.php?threadid=32787

http://www.gamereactor.se/media/48/killzone2_174841b.jpg

Texturing wise seems quite bland, specially due to the low res.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y83/radicalnsx/close1.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y83/radicalnsx/close2.jpg

Crysis's are much more detailed and realistic.

Shadows and DOF are not part of the gun model obviously.
 
Crysis 2 has a very realistic 'chrome-like' metal shader:
19.jpg


Note the handles, the sights and the metal ammo container. The alien in the centre also has a nice sheen to it.

Looking at Killzone 2 shots, the gun does tend to look really good. Though I think this is more of an artistic factor than a technical one.
dcpqv9.jpg

I prefer the look of killzone guns more, the metal seems to have that extra layer of Normalmap or detail pass on top of it. The vast amount of dynamic lights in KZ's environment could also contribute to the detailed look as the lighting helps to bring out the normalmap more.
 
dcpqv9.jpg

I prefer the look of killzone guns more, the metal seems to have that extra layer of Normalmap or detail pass on top of it. The vast amount of dynamic lights in KZ's environment could also contribute to the detailed look as the lighting helps to bring out the normalmap more.

I don't know if it's just that shot, but that gun looks horrible. The lack of HDR doesn't help KZ one bit.
 
I don't know if it's just that shot, but that gun looks horrible. The lack of HDR doesn't help KZ one bit.

I wouldn't say horrible but it sure looks bad. The surfaces are overly white on metal surfaces looking ankward like if there was a 300w lightbulb litting it. The artowrk is what makes msot of the detail and then it has normal mapping maybe specular or a cubemap for fake reflections like most other games do.

Looks labout something straight out of Fallout 3 (weapon).

Heres some new shots and that weapon and others in KZ3 (link has 223 images of game).

http://www.play-mag.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/1-2171.jpg

http://www.play-mag.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/1-2101.jpg
http://www.play-mag.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/1-0851.jpg
http://www.play-mag.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/1-0711.jpg

http://www.play-mag.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/1-0671.jpg
http://www.play-mag.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/1-0681.jpg

http://www.play-mag.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/1-0181.jpg
http://www.play-mag.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/1-0171.jpg

http://www.play-mag.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/1-0471.jpg
http://www.play-mag.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/1-1392.jpg
 
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