*spin-off* Always on/connected... stuff

Are you saying that other posters are not correct when claiming there is a difference between an online service whose function substantially draws from remote facilities and something that is physically run on the local machine, and has since the dawn of electronic time?

Or are you saying you don't like how your DVD player plays movies without Microsoft's direct say-so?
 
It just boggles my mind at the nerd rage today about Microsoft supposedly requiring full-time online connection. It even boggles me that being in such a high-tech forum such as Beyond3D that so many are upset about this too. I live in rural backwoods Arkansas right in the middle of tornado alley & I haven't had many issues with my Internet or Xbox Live connection. I could possibly count on one hand how many times it's been down over the past 5 years & none them were ever down than a few hours(during sleep I might add). I don't see mine & others responses here as being pro-online only. I see them more as being pro-games & specifically the games & franchises we find on our choice of hardware. If I have to buy an always connected system to play Halo, then guess what? I'm going to buy it. If I have to buy an always connected system to talk & play with all my same friends, then guess what? I'm going to buy it. The Xbox ecosystem is a network that I have committed to & invested in. If Microsoft says I have to always be online, then guess what? I'm going to be online. Now granted had Microsoft asked my opinion on the matter I probably might not would have asked for it, but they didn't. I also understand others don't have the same opinion & don't think they should just buy another product. They want the product they want & how they want it. Kudos for them, but I think a lot of the response I've seen has been way over the top, unwarranted & unhealthy. With Microsoft's public response today it sounds like might understand a little about the public's concern, but let's just wait it out a little longer to hear their official launch before we go completely insane.

Tommy McClain
 
AzBat said:
I don't see mine & others responses here as being pro-online only. I see them more as being pro-games & specifically the games & franchises we find on our choice of hardware. If I have to buy an always connected system to play Halo, then guess what? I'm going to buy it. If I have to buy an always connected system to talk & play with all my same friends, then guess what? I'm going to buy it.
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I don't follow this argument. What is the connection between an obligatory-online console and Halo, or any other franchise that isn't MMO?
I don't see the actual logical link in this statement between requirement X and franchise Y.
What if X wasn't always on-line? What if it were, say, Dog Kicking?

Sure, Microsoft can say I can't play Alan Wake 4: The Wakening unless I stomp on a pug, but how has that really improved my lot in gaming life?
 
AzBat said:
It just boggles my mind at the nerd rage today about Microsoft supposedly requiring full-time online connection. It even boggles me that being in such a high-tech forum such as Beyond3D that so many are upset about this too. I live in rural backwoods Arkansas right in the middle of tornado alley & I haven't had many issues with my Internet or Xbox Live connection. I could possibly count on one hand how many times it's been down over the past 5 years & none them were ever down than a few hours(during sleep I might add). I don't see mine & others responses here as being pro-online only. I see them more as being pro-games & specifically the games & franchises we find on our choice of hardware. If I have to buy an always connected system to play Halo, then guess what? I'm going to buy it. If I have to buy an always connected system to talk & play with all my same friends, then guess what? I'm going to buy it. The Xbox ecosystem is a network that I have committed to & invested in. If Microsoft says I have to always be online, then guess what? I'm going to be online. Now granted had Microsoft asked my opinion on the matter I probably might not would have asked for it, but they didn't. I also understand others don't have the same opinion & don't think they should just buy another product. They want the product they want & how they want it. Kudos for them, but I think a lot of the response I've seen has been way over the top, unwarranted & unhealthy. With Microsoft's public response today it sounds like might understand a little about the public's concern, but let's just wait it out a little longer to hear their official launch before we go completely insane.

Tommy McClain
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I'll be right there will you.

But what if we're the only two people online since everyone else is on ps4?

General populace isn't as committed to the MS vision as you and I are. Unlike Windows, consumers have pretty good alternative to Xbox.
 
You're making it too complicated. I want to continue playing the new Halo games. So I will buy the console that allows me to do that. In essence, for specific games, I don't really care about the requirements. BTW, funny substitutions, but Microsoft isn't going to make customers make ethical choices to play a game.

Tommy McClain
 
Tap In said:
Do you not think that Ms did extensive research and data mining about their potential market and the state of online WW (again in their main markets)?

1/2 user base for online may be a stretch and I'm certain they set a criteria for what % would be worth it for whatever benefit they expect to gain (which they will eventually explain)

Not to mention other possible expansions of untapped market share that they expect to replace by having online

As for why not make it the same as PS4? Exactly what I think is more likely is if Devs want to use this technology they will do it across both platforms... so Ps4 will get online only games also, just not universally
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I only said half the install base because roughly half of the 360s are connected IIRC. I'm sure MS did tons of research and put a lot a lot of thought into the decision (if it's true). It's just disappointing they could resort to such requirements just so I can use a device I purchase. It looks like a push for control and not for the benefit of the consumer at all.

I understand Live has been stable for the vast majority of the time, but there's always the chance it can go down again like it did the week following Xmas 2011. It would be horrible to give or receive the system as a gift, only for it to be a $400 paper weight right out the box.

As for the ps4 receiving the same multi-plat always online features, I'd consider that another benefit to the ps4. I'd have the option to purchase an online only game (like other platforms before) while still being able to enjoy any other game without the leash.

Rockster said:
I'm not mocking anyone and as outraged as everyone else that they dare require an internet connection. I'm actually calling my cable provider now because after thinking about it, I'm really upset I can't watch TV when the cable is out and I have to have this constant connection for this entertainment device to work. I bet they are tracking what I am watching and using the information for diabolical purposes. Can't wait to get this service disconnected.
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I don't know about you, but I can watch any of the DVDs/blu-rays in my collection if my cable and internet go down. ;p

I know it may seem it, but I'm not outraged but I am sorely disappointed and I that should be an acceptable reaction if this turns out true. I've always been a multi-console owner and have enjoyed many exclusives I'm happy I didn't miss.

It's unfortunate MS might put such restrictions on enjoying their exclusives.
 
Proelite said:
I'll be right there will you.

But what if we're the only two people online since everyone else is on ps4?

General populace isn't as committed to the MS vision as you and I are. Unlike Windows, consumers have pretty good alternative to Xbox.
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Then you & I will be the last 2 people to play the last Halo game on a Xbox. LOL

I'm not sure I would say I'm totally committed to their vision. Yes, I like & buy their products, but I abhor Windows on my personal machine & I'm not real convinced with their phone like I once was. If they died & I had to go somewhere else for game console I would. Right now I see no reason to jump ship, but there's a slim chance I could once they make their announcement. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. I'm not freaking out before MS has said anything officially.

Tommy McClain
 
Post your udder manure here instead

Guess we better talk about our "always on/always connected" manure here. Hopefully a mod will move our off-topic manure here from that udder thread. LOL

Tommy McClain
 
This topic is spewing a lot of hatred from gamers, I'm almost rather just wait until Microsoft announces something concrete. Their amount of silence before a holiday launch is pretty unprecedented. Even the 360 had some stuff revealed at GDC '05.
 
If the always on connection implemented like on Kotaku article, then it certainly too restricting. Even if my phone or PC loose internet connection, I still can use the apps installed on that device except for apps that required internet connection like MMO games. It should be up to the devs to choose whether they need always online connection, you know, like the current model.

If the device is rendered useless without Internet connection then I predict it would fail. Of course it's still unknown to what extent the always on requirement would impact the next Xbox (in terms of functionality; what can you do without Internet connection) , but I'm hoping it isn't as worse as I think it would be.
 
dagamer said:
This topic is spewing a lot of hatred from gamers, I'm almost rather just wait until Microsoft announces something concrete. Their amount of silence before a holiday launch is pretty unprecedented. Even the 360 had some stuff revealed at GDC '05.
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I think MS want to bundle the bad news with as much good news as possible, and do so as late as possible, rather than risk gamers festering over an official annoucement that the 720 doesnt work offline or play used games.

Rurouni said:
Of course it's still unknown to what extent the always on requirement would impact the next Xbox (in terms of functionality; what can you do without Internet connection) , but I'm hoping it isn't as worse as I think it would be.
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As per the Kotaku article, after three minutes without a connection the network troubleshooter starts up.

That and Bluray playback are the only things I am told work offline (offline Bluray playback is mandated by the Bluray spec).
 
expletive said:
If STEAM servers have an issue, are you able to easily go into offline mode or does it require a final sync with the Valve mothership before you're allowed to do so?
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You press offline mode and can play the games that has been started and is up to date, since you can choose (i think it's default) that your games is updated automactically it should "just work". I have offline machines for reasons i mentioned somewhere else, and they run fine.
 
astrograd said:
Making assumptions out of thin air isn't helpful to the discussion. Speculation is fine, but straight up asserting crap like this when you clearly ignored points I've already made on exactly this issue where I noted benefits of always online console is disruptive to intelligent conversation.
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You do know that always on never disconnect games have existed before the dawn of online games on consoles? We call it PC games, they have had this ability since forever, and we have seen the results. No wait.. we really haven't, the most successful always on never disconnect game is Diablo 3, the most important aspect of the always on never disconnect feature is having a auction house where you can sell items for real money.

Explain to us how it suddenly becomes a whole new ball game with always on never disconnect games on consoles as opposed to the PC. On the PC there is even the added benefit of ODRM when you create a always on never disconnect game to fight the rampant piracy.
 
astrograd said:
First you tell me I didn't note any benefits then you say I did but we have to ignore them because they may not exist yet? Make up your mind. The fact is that there is a lot of potential for persistently changing worlds even in SP games that aren't feasible without always being online. There are lots of interesting possibilities in terms of leveraging cloud databases and Kinect voice stuff for SP gaming too. Lots. Same goes for various elements of AI. This kinda stuff simply isn't possible without always online devices.

YOU asserted there exist zero benefits. YOU are the one assuming none of this stuff is possible. I'm just noting that we don't know that is the case yet as we dunno what their plans are as a platform holder, publisher, or what their 1st/3rd parties are exploring concept-wise. So don't whine to me when all I am doing is showing YOUR assumptions are wrong. There ARE some really interesting possibilities. Whether they come to fruition or not is a totally different argument.
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Isn't this just dreaming though? Of course there are in theory great opportunities for this. Voice recognizion is a good point. Siri needs online to work. So if MS says we need online for voice recognition...ok. But what about games? Imo in reality it won't be that useful the next couple of years.

Being always online is just one part of the equation. What about the fact that all people have different download, upload and latency connections? How exactly do you design and develop all those amazing opportunities to fit to all internet connections?

Those features cannot be designed in such a way that they influence performance...so I would rule out features with communication every frame, or every couple of frames. So I am really sceptical about this at the moment.

Furthermore, MS has almost only third party support. In case (and there I am sceptical as well: up to now, Sony did not deny always on, altough this would be a big advantage of the system and good PR) PS4 does not have always on requirement: do we really think that third party devs invest the money to implement such features only for Xbox, i.e. half of the potential userbase? As all third party devs did use the full potential of the 'every PS3 has a HDD' feature, or 'every PS3 has massive BD storage' feature this gen?

I have a strong feeling that the motivation for a company to require always online is not that they can potentially offer so much better never seen before games...it must be something else...just a feeling though :)
 
remember this
Customers who have purchased music from Microsoft's now-defunct MSN Music store are now facing a decision they never anticipated making: commit to which computers (and OS) they want to authorize forever, or give up access to the music they paid for. Why? Because Microsoft has decided that it's done supporting the service and will be turning off the MSN Music license servers by the end of this summer.
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At what point will ms decide to no longer fund the servers ?
 
AzBat said:
Guess we better talk about our "always on/always connected" manure here. Hopefully a mod will move our off-topic manure here from that udder thread. LOL

Tommy McClain
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So let it be written; so let it be done!

dagamer said:
This topic is spewing a lot of hatred from gamers, I'm almost rather just wait until Microsoft announces something concrete.
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I guess posters gotta post. If there's no info to post about, they'll focus posting on some subject of contention.
 
Davros said:
remember this


At what point will ms decide to no longer fund the servers ?
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I did a quick google on that, surprisingly the backlash wasn't that big, i guess they didn't have many customers in the MSN Music store :)

Even with the considerable amount of digital purchases on the PSN and Live store i don't expect a big backlash, simply because they will let those purchases live on the old consoles for enough years to have the spotlight pointed at something completely else.

But what if steam was closed from one day to another, then we would have a real uproar on our hands and maybe then the lawmakers would take a look at the wild west called digital purchases.
 
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