Soul Calibur III: PS2 exclusive!
- Thread starter Deepak
- Start date
Funny. I tend to say the same thing about your usual comments. 
As usual, stills tend to be poor representations of play (as you're concentrating on things you would not see in motion and focusing on minor details, or they've been glammed up to LOOK better, but be just as disconnected to the game in motion), but the videos give at least a few reasonable glimpses of the game, and so far 's lookin' all good. I'm sure they'll deliver as many "non-drab and colorful" boards as they did in SCII, but in the meanwhile I'm really glad that not every designer is so "touched" as to includes lots of purple glow everywhere, make all water look like it's Caribbean, have the sun shining directly overhead 24/7, and try to include as much of the visible spectrum as possible on each and every stage. (Or have overly busy/goof-tastic stages... Save that for spoofy games like Darkstalkers. Thankfully Capcom got off that kick for ALL their games... Heh.) Isn't it amazing that for a fighting game trying to be more gritty and serious, they might--gasp--actually design the game to match! Shocking, I know...
In the meanwhile, they seem to be doing their usual fantastic job of animating and trying to base their fighting styles on existing martial arts (look exactly 3 minutes into the "making of" video. ^_^ Hawt). Hopefully Setsuka and Tira will add reasonably different fighting styles to the roster as they look like they could... but judging by Tira's visible action sequences, she may more be a "it's a funky-looking blade" fighting, rather than stressing the uniqueness of her weapon. (Setsuka I'm hoping can be more of a balanced offense/defense fighter, actually USING the umbrella head.)
...and while I'm just fine with them adding more character customization options to the game (rather that just "extra costumes") the way VF4 and T5 have, I'd like to see the games stress more gameplay options as well. Or instead, if it had to come to that. And I'm not talking about single-player options here. 8-P Online play is a big one, as even if they can't do it perfectly yet, it gives them practice in delivering it and the ability to improve upon it, rather than running into issues later down the road that other games have already solved and refined. But as well, I'm simply talking about more game modes. Not just the easy ones that are always delivered (like Survival or some "one-after-the-other" multiplayer mode), but ones that introduce the experimental without compromising the main game (how much better-received would Tekken 4 have been if the "uneven terrain" stuff was restricted to its own mode?), and many MORE things that enhance and expand the existing ones. (For SC, what I'm talking about are things like boards without ringouts, the ability to bring in "tag team" modes without dedicating the game to it, adjusting how much health is regained between rounds for things like the 8-player matchups, more intelligent handicapping or assistance so friends of different skill levels can more easily have fun playing with each other...)
But since we're on the "player customization" topic, what I've REALLY been waiting for a game to be able to deliver is true fighting customization, not just costumes (or record-keeping and the like through player logins... which is cool and should have its own options expanded, too.) Think about "training mode" where you play a self-created character that learns the moves YOU want them to as you get more experienced. Drawing from a general pool, and later on from more specialized pools depending on the weapon route they choose... It could mainly just reuse the keyframes from the main characters of the game itself (and I guess a more generic body type, so you COULD properly share those keyframes, as well as the costume customizations...), but build them into a custom fighter of your own design. (With the ability to do some tweaking--whatever would be easy enough and not cheap-ass.) It's not like they'd have to pay too much attention to "balance" either, as the mode would mainly be there to have fun with. Some kind of simple point-based structure with enough to draw from the be satisfying, but not so much that they have to stamp out bugs galore or spend time refining all the animation... Whatever! Fun is fun. I know other games have tried to pull this off, but to my knowledge none have delivered worth a damn. (I'm only talking about serious fighting games here, not silly/amusing things like Magic Pengel. )
At any rate, SC3's looking good for right now. ^_^ I just hope it'll be more than a simple evolution. Probably not, but you never know. <shrugs> At least this time it'll force my friend to not have to play on the Cube as he's gotten used to only playing on that godawful fighter controller!
As usual, stills tend to be poor representations of play (as you're concentrating on things you would not see in motion and focusing on minor details, or they've been glammed up to LOOK better, but be just as disconnected to the game in motion), but the videos give at least a few reasonable glimpses of the game, and so far 's lookin' all good. I'm sure they'll deliver as many "non-drab and colorful" boards as they did in SCII, but in the meanwhile I'm really glad that not every designer is so "touched" as to includes lots of purple glow everywhere, make all water look like it's Caribbean, have the sun shining directly overhead 24/7, and try to include as much of the visible spectrum as possible on each and every stage. (Or have overly busy/goof-tastic stages... Save that for spoofy games like Darkstalkers. Thankfully Capcom got off that kick for ALL their games... Heh.) Isn't it amazing that for a fighting game trying to be more gritty and serious, they might--gasp--actually design the game to match! Shocking, I know...In the meanwhile, they seem to be doing their usual fantastic job of animating and trying to base their fighting styles on existing martial arts (look exactly 3 minutes into the "making of" video. ^_^ Hawt). Hopefully Setsuka and Tira will add reasonably different fighting styles to the roster as they look like they could... but judging by Tira's visible action sequences, she may more be a "it's a funky-looking blade" fighting, rather than stressing the uniqueness of her weapon. (Setsuka I'm hoping can be more of a balanced offense/defense fighter, actually USING the umbrella head.)
...and while I'm just fine with them adding more character customization options to the game (rather that just "extra costumes") the way VF4 and T5 have, I'd like to see the games stress more gameplay options as well. Or instead, if it had to come to that. And I'm not talking about single-player options here. 8-P Online play is a big one, as even if they can't do it perfectly yet, it gives them practice in delivering it and the ability to improve upon it, rather than running into issues later down the road that other games have already solved and refined. But as well, I'm simply talking about more game modes. Not just the easy ones that are always delivered (like Survival or some "one-after-the-other" multiplayer mode), but ones that introduce the experimental without compromising the main game (how much better-received would Tekken 4 have been if the "uneven terrain" stuff was restricted to its own mode?), and many MORE things that enhance and expand the existing ones. (For SC, what I'm talking about are things like boards without ringouts, the ability to bring in "tag team" modes without dedicating the game to it, adjusting how much health is regained between rounds for things like the 8-player matchups, more intelligent handicapping or assistance so friends of different skill levels can more easily have fun playing with each other...)
But since we're on the "player customization" topic, what I've REALLY been waiting for a game to be able to deliver is true fighting customization, not just costumes (or record-keeping and the like through player logins... which is cool and should have its own options expanded, too.) Think about "training mode" where you play a self-created character that learns the moves YOU want them to as you get more experienced. Drawing from a general pool, and later on from more specialized pools depending on the weapon route they choose... It could mainly just reuse the keyframes from the main characters of the game itself (and I guess a more generic body type, so you COULD properly share those keyframes, as well as the costume customizations...), but build them into a custom fighter of your own design. (With the ability to do some tweaking--whatever would be easy enough and not cheap-ass.) It's not like they'd have to pay too much attention to "balance" either, as the mode would mainly be there to have fun with. Some kind of simple point-based structure with enough to draw from the be satisfying, but not so much that they have to stamp out bugs galore or spend time refining all the animation... Whatever! Fun is fun.
I know other games have tried to pull this off, but to my knowledge none have delivered worth a damn. (I'm only talking about serious fighting games here, not silly/amusing things like Magic Pengel. )At any rate, SC3's looking good for right now. ^_^ I just hope it'll be more than a simple evolution. Probably not, but you never know. <shrugs> At least this time it'll force my friend to not have to play on the Cube as he's gotten used to only playing on that godawful fighter controller!
Teasy, Acert93, (replying to both since you both have the same argument)
Yeah, I agree, but I also have a hard time believing Namco would make this an exclusive effort based solely on a money or royality deal with Sony given the huge success of the current installment (SCII). Perhaps it's really just a time exclusive, but if not, then I'd say there could be some factors deciding that you two are overlooking:
1.) costs of the porting process (lets assume they use the Tekken5 engine which could be less port-friendly than the SCII one)
2.) not enough resources that could be assigned to the porting process because of next generation development?
3.) Nintendo's next generation / Xbox360 plans earlier than expected?
4.) marketing costs involved that would be added to the porting process higher on the other two consoles?
Who knows?`I'm not saying it's NOT a deal, but that I find it hard to believe given the success. And SCIII an exclusive is no biggie in my eyes... neither for Sony nor for anyone else. Personally, I think it's a mix between the 4 above points and perhaps some special offering with Sony.
Acert93 said:
Yeah, I agree, but I also have a hard time believing Namco would make this an exclusive effort based solely on a money or royality deal with Sony given the huge success of the current installment (SCII). Perhaps it's really just a time exclusive, but if not, then I'd say there could be some factors deciding that you two are overlooking:
1.) costs of the porting process (lets assume they use the Tekken5 engine which could be less port-friendly than the SCII one)
2.) not enough resources that could be assigned to the porting process because of next generation development?
3.) Nintendo's next generation / Xbox360 plans earlier than expected?
4.) marketing costs involved that would be added to the porting process higher on the other two consoles?
Who knows?`I'm not saying it's NOT a deal, but that I find it hard to believe given the success. And SCIII an exclusive is no biggie in my eyes... neither for Sony nor for anyone else. Personally, I think it's a mix between the 4 above points and perhaps some special offering with Sony.
I don't know about you, but those drab colors and blurry textures just looks plain ugly.
Doesn't matter if it's a still shot or not as still shots of SCII don't look like those pics at all. They look a lot better and that's not just an opinion it's fact.
Look at them ugly blurry floorboards. Look at that limited color palette in that top pic. I see like 5 or 6 shades of brown.
Hence why I'm saying "chill out and wait." We're seeing the first glimpse of a game that has already shown itself in previous iterations to be just fine. And it's not like this is the first game to ever offer poor quality first glimpses...PC-Engine said:
It's a rare game that manages to produce GOOD stills when we first see it.
Oh please PC-Engine, you're again just seeing things through your Sony hate goggles. If this game were multiformat as was SCII I'm sure you would not be bothering.
That top pic has drab colours because it's showing mostly structures made of stone, and to top it the weather looks gray and rainy in that pic.
How could the colours be bright and shiny?
On the lower pic, if you look closer (are you capable of that?) you can see there's dust flying on the floorboards. There's dust clouds that are produced by the character's feet. That's the blurrines you see
I agree, the textures are not razor sharp, but they are what is expected in this gen (PS2) games.
Overall imo the game looks technically to be at similar visual level as SCII on PS2, certainly not worse, but not significantly better either.
That top pic has drab colours because it's showing mostly structures made of stone, and to top it the weather looks gray and rainy in that pic.
How could the colours be bright and shiny?
On the lower pic, if you look closer (are you capable of that?) you can see there's dust flying on the floorboards. There's dust clouds that are produced by the character's feet. That's the blurrines you see
I agree, the textures are not razor sharp, but they are what is expected in this gen (PS2) games.
Overall imo the game looks technically to be at similar visual level as SCII on PS2, certainly not worse, but not significantly better either.
rabidrabbit said:Oh please PC-Engine, you're again just seeing things through your Sony hate goggles. If this game were multiformat as was SCII I'm sure you would not be bothering.
That top pic has drab colours because it's showing mostly structures made of stone, and to top it the weather looks gray and rainy in that pic.
How could the colours be bright and shiny?
On the lower pic, if you look closer (are you capable of that?) you can see there's dust flying on the floorboards. There's dust clouds that are produced by the character's feet. That's the blurrines you see
I agree, the textures are not razor sharp, but they are what is expected in this gen (PS2) games.
Overall imo the game looks technically to be at similar visual level as SCII on PS2, certainly not worse, but not significantly better either.
Uh no take off YOUR rose tinted goggles. The blurriness goes way beyond the dust and there's no change between the blurriness in the dust vs the blurriness outside of the dust.
Regarding the poor excuse for a cloudy day. Well play that raining cloudy stage in SC on DC and see how colorful it is compared to this mess on the PS2. BTW if this game came out on GCN and Xbox it would look better on those consoles so there would be no need to bring up blurry textures or drab colors.
Phil
Some of those things you mention could be true and could have some kind of effect. But even so I just don't see how there can be any doubt that Sony and Namco have struck a deal. Again look at the numbers for SCII. Any extra porting costs are a drop in the ocean for what Namco could reasonable expect to make on XBox and GC with SCIII. Also I don't see any reason for marketing to be higher for the other two systems. In fact AFAICS marketing for extra consoles is basically free. Its just the same advert as for the PS2 version buth with "For PS2, GC and XBox" at the end instead of just "for PS2". If your saying that maybe Sony has gotten the game for a lesser fee then I've been talking about then ok maybe. It could be a fee and, as others have mentioned, some extra "privaledges" from Sony such as cheap PS3 dev kits and lower royalty fee's ect. But however Sony is paying make no mistake IMO, they are paying for this. There's nothing wrong with that what so ever if they think its worth the money..
Some of those things you mention could be true and could have some kind of effect. But even so I just don't see how there can be any doubt that Sony and Namco have struck a deal. Again look at the numbers for SCII. Any extra porting costs are a drop in the ocean for what Namco could reasonable expect to make on XBox and GC with SCIII. Also I don't see any reason for marketing to be higher for the other two systems. In fact AFAICS marketing for extra consoles is basically free. Its just the same advert as for the PS2 version buth with "For PS2, GC and XBox" at the end instead of just "for PS2". If your saying that maybe Sony has gotten the game for a lesser fee then I've been talking about then ok maybe. It could be a fee and, as others have mentioned, some extra "privaledges" from Sony such as cheap PS3 dev kits and lower royalty fee's ect. But however Sony is paying make no mistake IMO, they are paying for this. There's nothing wrong with that what so ever if they think its worth the money..
representation3
Newcomer
cthellis42 said:But since we're on the "player customization" topic, what I've REALLY been waiting for a game to be able to deliver is true fighting customization, not just costumes (or record-keeping and the like through player logins... which is cool and should have its own options expanded, too.) Think about "training mode" where you play a self-created character that learns the moves YOU want them to as you get more experienced. Drawing from a general pool, and later on from more specialized pools depending on the weapon route they choose... It could mainly just reuse the keyframes from the main characters of the game itself (and I guess a more generic body type, so you COULD properly share those keyframes, as well as the costume customizations...), but build them into a custom fighter of your own design. (With the ability to do some tweaking--whatever would be easy enough and not cheap-ass.) It's not like they'd have to pay too much attention to "balance" either, as the mode would mainly be there to have fun with. Some kind of simple point-based structure with enough to draw from the be satisfying, but not so much that they have to stamp out bugs galore or spend time refining all the animation... Whatever! Fun is fun.
That would not be a good idea due to that fact that most fighters have limited moves for game balancing reasons. I am no expert myself, but I know that all moves are not equal. If you combined all of the best moves you are going to get a boss classed character. Another problem is that free move selection would destroy the limited rpg element that fighting games rely on. Seeing Tecky weild Nightmare's blade would break the feel of the game.
PC-Engine said:rabidrabbit said:Oh please PC-Engine, you're again just seeing things through your Sony hate goggles. If this game were multiformat as was SCII I'm sure you would not be bothering.
That top pic has drab colours because it's showing mostly structures made of stone, and to top it the weather looks gray and rainy in that pic.
How could the colours be bright and shiny?
On the lower pic, if you look closer (are you capable of that?) you can see there's dust flying on the floorboards. There's dust clouds that are produced by the character's feet. That's the blurrines you see
I agree, the textures are not razor sharp, but they are what is expected in this gen (PS2) games.
Overall imo the game looks technically to be at similar visual level as SCII on PS2, certainly not worse, but not significantly better either.
Uh no take off YOUR rose tinted goggles. The blurriness goes way beyond the dust and there's no change between the blurriness in the dust vs the blurriness outside of the dust.
Regarding the poor excuse for a cloudy day. Well play that raining cloudy stage in SC on DC and see how colorful it is compared to this mess on the PS2. BTW if this game came out on GCN and Xbox it would look better on those consoles so there would be no need to bring up blurry textures or drab colors.
Yes, we know PS2 is "weaker" than the others. So why bring it up in the first place? Oh yes, just to tear down a game because PS2 gets it and the others won't. Got it!
Teasy said:
Teasy
Well, I just don't see SCIII as being a very smart exclusive deal that's all - and given the numbers you posted earlier (the 1.5 million sold on other consoles), it would point that such an exclusive contract would not be that cheap for Namco to actually think about it and pull a profit from it - hence, why I think it's a mix of all those factors I listed.
As for marketing. I don't watch much tv, but someone in this thread mentioned that GameCube had quite a big marketing campaign running for the game (much bigger than the one for the PlayStation 2 version). If that is true, then marketing costs would certainly be higher on the other consoles. Not saying this is a big factor though.
Iron Tiger
Regular
Marketing does not mean advertising. Advertising is just one part of marketing, along with R&D and production. So yeah, marketing costs would be higher for porting a game across 3 different platforms, even if they only show one commercial and have 1 magazine spread.Phil said:
Phil
Just FYI it was actually 2.5 million on the other two consoles and almost 4 million on all three systems. I agree for what I think it would take to get SCIII as exclusive its not a good deal for Sony to make. But then its also not smart for Namco to do this without a deal, even less so in fact. Sony aren't stupid, but neiter are Namco and I don't see the stuff you mentioned explaining Namco just deciding to make SCIII PS2 exclusive. We're just going to have to disagree I suppose.
Just FYI it was actually 2.5 million on the other two consoles and almost 4 million on all three systems. I agree for what I think it would take to get SCIII as exclusive its not a good deal for Sony to make. But then its also not smart for Namco to do this without a deal, even less so in fact. Sony aren't stupid, but neiter are Namco and I don't see the stuff you mentioned explaining Namco just deciding to make SCIII PS2 exclusive. We're just going to have to disagree I suppose.
Here's why it makes sense to go PS2-only.
Most console gamers own PS2. It's safe to say that many PS2 owners also own an Xbox or Gamecube. Perhaps some of these gamers bought the Xbox or GC versions of the game to enjoy the slightly better graphics or special characters (i.e., Link). (I did - I own all three systems and bought the Xbox game.)
Fine. So now Namco puts SCIII out on PS2 and all these multiple-console owners have no choice but to buy the PS2 game.
In the end, Namco still sells to the vast majority of the market - including many of those who would have bought the Xbox and GC games had they been made available - while saving itself the time and cost of porting the game to two other consoles.
It especially makes sense when you consider that, with the release of Xbox2 this holiday, excitement for the original Xbox will take a big hit. Better for Namco to focus on developing for the most popular platform and leave it at that.
Most console gamers own PS2. It's safe to say that many PS2 owners also own an Xbox or Gamecube. Perhaps some of these gamers bought the Xbox or GC versions of the game to enjoy the slightly better graphics or special characters (i.e., Link). (I did - I own all three systems and bought the Xbox game.)
Fine. So now Namco puts SCIII out on PS2 and all these multiple-console owners have no choice but to buy the PS2 game.
In the end, Namco still sells to the vast majority of the market - including many of those who would have bought the Xbox and GC games had they been made available - while saving itself the time and cost of porting the game to two other consoles.
It especially makes sense when you consider that, with the release of Xbox2 this holiday, excitement for the original Xbox will take a big hit. Better for Namco to focus on developing for the most popular platform and leave it at that.
You have to think that there are more PS2s than GC+XB put together, so it's understandable if anyone decides to go exclusive for PS2. I think it's the wrong move, since PS2 is already saturated with fantastic fighting games, whereas GC and XB aren't, but well that's just me...
PC-Engine said:
Obviously. I didn't say these folks HAD to own all three consoles.
I'm saying it's a safe bet that a fair number of SCII buyers own PS2 AND an Xbox OR a Gamecube, and perhaps they bought the non-PS2 version. If these same people are interested in SCIII, Namco will still sell them - but it'll have to be the PS2 game this time.
Personally, I think many Xboxers will be looking to Xbox2 this holiday, and Gamecube owners won't be nearly as interested in SCIII if Namco doesn't put Link or Starfox or somebody in the game... so these could be reasons for the PS2 exclusivity.
In any case, Namco made the decision and we may never be privvy to all the factors they considered. But it definitely says something about PS2's dominance and Sony's powerful influence this generation.
Now we'll just have to wait for the sales numbers to see if we can reverse-engineer Namco's logic.