Sony's SXRD Projection TV to Take on DLP

Deepak

B3D Yoddha
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"SXRD has been developed from LCD (liquid crystal display) technology, and features pixels that are much smaller and more densely packed than in a conventional panel. In a projection TV, the image is displayed on a small panel and projected onto a larger glass screen using a system of lenses, which means that HDTV resolution requires a large number of pixels in a small panel.
 
For me, the question is: How are the black levels? I wouldn't buy an RP LCD for this reason (it's downright ugly when watching with the lights off), and DLP, though much better, wasn't acceptable IMO until HD2+ came.

I hear JVC's HD-ILA is a bit better than LCD, but not as good as HD2+ in terms of blacks. Unfortunately, I haven't found a showroom that has the JVC in dim lighting conditions.

Actually, googling led me to Sony's press release, and they say its constrast ratio is 3000:1, and the response time is 5ms.

Looks good. :D
 
Mintmaster said:
For me, the question is: How are the black levels? I wouldn't buy an RP LCD for this reason (it's downright ugly when watching with the lights off), and DLP, though much better, wasn't acceptable IMO until HD2+ came.

Agreed. I have yet to see in person though a set based on the xHD3 chip. They rate contrast levels as 5000:1. More on this later though. Seen some Plasma Displays? They can approach CRT-level blacks now.

Mintmaster said:
I hear JVC's HD-ILA is a bit better than LCD, but not as good as HD2+ in terms of blacks. Unfortunately, I haven't found a showroom that has the JVC in dim lighting conditions.

Well LCDs aren't that good with blacks I thought. Wonderful colors but black levels can often be "crushed". Never saw an HD-ILA set.

Mintmaster said:
Actually, googling led me to Sony's press release, and they say its constrast ratio is 3000:1, and the response time is 5ms.

Looks good. :D

Yes, specs look good. Do note, however, that Contrast levels never measure up to specs so they are often times misleading. I think they're OK to judge within a single manufacturer for relative levels amongst their products but between different OEMs could be a different story.

SED also sounds promising but that seems to be years away given the recent press release about a JV.
 
SED also sounds promising but that seems to be years away given the recent press release about a JV.

Actually Toshiba will release SED devices next year to coincide with their HD-DVD products launch.
 
PC-Engine said:
SED also sounds promising but that seems to be years away given the recent press release about a JV.

Actually Toshiba will release SED devices next year to coincide with their HD-DVD products launch.

I read that they (Canon/Toshiba) will aim to release only 3k panels a month starting in 2005. So mass market (should have been clearer in my post) is a couple years out I figure (1.8 million panels by 2008). They are aiming for less $$ than PD which is nice. Technology looks quite promising.

Haven't noticed specs though so if you've heard about proposed resolutions for say 50" then share. ;) If, BIG if mind you, they manage to produce CRT level shadow detail & blacks with PDP/LCD geometry they have a winner. Get to 1920 resolution though and I'm sold.
 
Ty, I agree with all your points. LCD RP's do suck with blacks, and that's the deal breaker for me. I saw a GWIII next to the HD2 DLP (not HD2+) playing the Star Wars intro (with the scrolling story), and the GWIII looked horrible to me. Not even grey, it's the bluish tone that's characteristic of most LCD displays.

I've heard both 3000:1 and 5000:1 for the xHD3, but as you said, stated contrast ratio only means so much. What surprised me was a HD2+ front projector was able to get 4400:1 contrast ratio measured. We'll just have to wait and see, but from what I've heard of the Qualia 004, they say SXRD gets close to DLP blacks. IMO, not good enough for something costing $10k+.

I haven't been following SED, but it looks pretty good. I don't see prices getting far below plasma, though. Seems expensive to produce. I think EL displays have a better future, but I'm no expert.

I think I've waited enough, though. HD2+ looks good to me. I hope the rainbows (which I can force myself to see) won't bother me much.
 
The measurements for CR for that Sharp projector is pretty pointless because you're losing a lot of brightness in order to get those high CRs...


In the Medium mode of the Iris, (Economy on), the light level at the screen fell to 7.1 ftL (218 Lumens), but the contrast ratio increased to 3085:1. In the High Contrast Iris mode, the light output fell further to 6.3 ftL (195 lumens), but the contrast ratio rose to a remarkable 4394:1.

As 15.3 ftL is an ideal light level - even a bit brighter would not hurt - and 6 or 7 ftL is clearly too low, I did most all my watching in the High Brightness mode. Everytime I used the Iris control on the remote to see if perhaps one of the other modes might be OK, I quickly came back to the High Brightness mode if the scene was at all normally lighted.

Obviously one would like the brightness of the High Brightness mode and the black levels and contrast ratio of the High Contrast Mode all in a single mode. So here’s the catch with the 12000, you can’t have it all at the same time – you can’t have full light output and anything close to the specified 5500:1 contrast ratio. It’s more like 1350:1 with full brightness.

Regard EL displays, Sanyo will have them next year to also coincide with their HD-DVD products.

TDEL
Right now, all big-screen flat-panel TVs have one really major drawback: They cost too much. In an attempt to come up with a way to produce and market hang-on-the-wall TVs as inexpensively as CRT TVs, a relatively unknown Canadian company called iFire (a subsidiary of Westaim Corporation) has developed an innovative new technology called thick-film dielectric electro-luminescent displays, or TDEL for short. It is now teaming up with Sanyo and Dai Nippon Printing Co. of Japan to create low-priced flat panel displays in the mid 30-inch size category.

The thick film manufacturing process makes these screens 30 to 40 percent less costly than other flat panel technologies, iFire says, with comparable performance. It is based on inorganic electro-luminescence, or EL, which is well-established technology previously seen in applications such as Timex Indiglo watches. EL is based on generating light by applying an alternating electrical field to inorganic light-emitting phosphors. The company has developed a way to harness the blue-light emitted by EL, and convert it to the red, green, and blue colors needed for a color TV image. They call this process "Color-by-Blue." The blue phosphors essentially trigger another layer of red and green phosphors to produce the full color-TV spectrum. Why go to the trouble? Because generating a pixel of light using this technology is much simpler, and theoretically cheaper to manufacture, than plasma or LCD screens.

The company has already demonstrated a 17-inch screen using TDEL technology, and it says it's gearing up with Sanyo to produce 34-inch and larger panels, commercially, for sale as HDTV sets by 2005 that will be price-competitive with traditional direct-view CRT television sets.
 
Contrast Ratio doesnt tell you the blacklevels. You need to know the brightness as well. I'm holding on for 80" OLED's :LOL:
 
Mintmaster said:
We'll just have to wait and see, but from what I've heard of the Qualia 004, they say SXRD gets close to DLP blacks. IMO, not good enough for something costing $10k+.
Some people don't like the 'rainbows' that are prevalent with DLPs.
 
Leto said:
Contrast Ratio doesnt tell you the blacklevels. You need to know the brightness as well. I'm holding on for 80" OLED's :LOL:

Heh. OLEDs are 5+ years away I'd guess. I think they have yet to solve the issue of longevity.

RussSchultz said:
Mintmaster said:
We'll just have to wait and see, but from what I've heard of the Qualia 004, they say SXRD gets close to DLP blacks. IMO, not good enough for something costing $10k+.
Some people don't like the 'rainbows' that are prevalent with DLPs.

Yea, I think he mentioned that. Anyhow some people see them and others don't (sensitivity difference) and you can be trained to see them though I don't know why you'd do that. ;) Newer 7 color wheels mitigate this somewhat I believe.
 
There's a mobile phone from Samsung on it's way with an always-on external OLED screen so the longevity can't be that big a problem o_O I think size is the bigger challenge now.
 
Leto said:
There's a mobile phone from Samsung on it's way with an always-on external OLED screen so the longevity can't be that big a problem o_O I think size is the bigger challenge now.

But mobile phones don't have to worry about fading brightness of the external display over time.
 
PC-Engine said:
Leto said:
There's a mobile phone from Samsung on it's way with an always-on external OLED screen so the longevity can't be that big a problem o_O I think size is the bigger challenge now.

But mobile phones don't have to worry about fading brightness of the external display over time.
Or the subtle irregularities in brightness/response that can cause fixed pattern noise that is horribly noticeable when panning.
 
PC-Engine said:
Leto said:
There's a mobile phone from Samsung on it's way with an always-on external OLED screen so the longevity can't be that big a problem o_O I think size is the bigger challenge now.

But mobile phones don't have to worry about fading brightness of the external display over time.

Yep and that's simply because mobile phones aren't necessarily displaying a bright image for hours a day for ~5 years.
 
Hey, I got a great idea for big screen TV manufacturers!! (maybe I should patent it)

Why has no-one ever came up with the idea of upgradeable flat screen panel!

You'd have for example a small, cheap 7" 640 x 480 screen, that would be the basic component. If you bought three more of those 7" screens, you could just stack them together to form a 2 x 2 grid of 7" screens, and you'd have some (math not necessarily correct) 15" screen with resolution of 1280 x 960.

For really big flat screens, you could build a 10 x 10 grid of 7" screens to get an over 70" screen size with resolution of 6400 x 4800 :oops: .
 
Oh, but can you do it with other than PC (and some console games)?
Can you do it with a VCR, home DVD player, TV tuner?

As for the seams. that would sure be a problem, but if the screen was such, that the protective glass (or plastic) screen was detachable, leaving the panel bare, and without the borders of the protective screen.
And also there should not be any frame in the display screen.

Would it be easier to make a relatively seamless screen with OLED panels, than with LCD panels (OLED image is constantly bright from edge to edge, no hotspots caused by backlight...)

.... well, a few minutes ago the idea seemed revolutionary, but as I typed it I already thought there must be something wrong :LOL:
 
I just got a Samsung 5085W last month which is a 4th generation DLP RPTV. It has HD2+ and DarkChip2. In properly calibrated settings, the black levels are awesome, and rainbow effect is nonexistent (7-segment color wheel)

That said, I still think it doesn't look as good as my Sanyo PLV-70 on the 120inch. :) The size, brightness, saturation more then make up for the black levels. The other problem is, the RPTV is in the bedroom, which has light control, the PJ is in the living room which has ambient light, so any high CR gets crushed anyway. The 2200 lumens of the PJ make up for it, and appear "plasma like"

The XHD3 coming out this December is supposed to deliver 2x the CR of the HD2+ and 1080P!!!!

(BTW, OneCall.com had a tremenous deal in August. I got the 5085W for $3700, no tax, no shipping costs. They are now charging $4200 and shipping. TVAuthority has powerbuyer deals sponsored on AVS forum tho which are good to get in on)
 
rabidrabbit said:
For really big flat screens, you could build a 10 x 10 grid of 7" screens to get an over 70" screen size with resolution of 6400 x 4800 :oops: .

Aren't Jumbotrons pieced together like this? Anyhow splitting a signal is more processing than display (meaning you can do it now with an outboard box and just about any average TV).

DemoCoder said:
I just got a Samsung 5085W last month which is a 4th generation DLP RPTV. It has HD2+ and DarkChip2. In properly calibrated settings, the black levels are awesome, and rainbow effect is nonexistent (7-segment color wheel)

I was looking at buying one of those as well but I was bothered by the unevenness of the screen's brightness. Colors were very vivid though. Maybe the DLPs I had seen (unevenness being a problem not just with the Sammie) were just poor examples.

DemoCoder said:
That said, I still think it doesn't look as good as my Sanyo PLV-70 on the 120inch. :) The size, brightness, saturation more then make up for the black levels. The other problem is, the RPTV is in the bedroom, which has light control, the PJ is in the living room which has ambient light, so any high CR gets crushed anyway. The 2200 lumens of the PJ make up for it, and appear "plasma like"

Well I think it's pretty much well regarded that FPTV is "the way" to go if you can. :)

DemoCoder said:
The XHD3 coming out this December is supposed to deliver 2x the CR of the HD2+ and 1080P!!!!

Yep. Been waiting for that chip for many months now but I think I'm going to pull the trigger on a plasma anyhow. Wife won't let me spend the $ on the xHD3. Doh.
 
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