snc
Veteran
true as I think there wasn't big jump in game desing since mafia 1 so ps2 era but it's not that I was wating for that much
Sony's Cross-Generation Game Messaging [2021]
- Thread starter eastmen
- Start date
VR? I get what you're saying - but it's about adding things into games that were not possible last gen...so some of the 'not possible last gen' are not so obvious...inadvertently making things a new way to play or something that couldn't be done on the previous gen.And if we're talking about gameplay. I can't think of a single game in the PS4/XBO generation that couldn't have been played on PS2/Xbox. Obviously the graphics quality would be massively reduced, but the gameplay for pretty much any game from the last generation could be replicated on those consoles.
New hardware doesn't necessarily change the gameplay, it only changes how one experiences the game (graphics, convenience, etc.). The last time gameplay changed significantly on console due to hardware? When 3D games enabled fully 3D roaming of worlds. However, even that didn't necessarily require new hardware. We've had 3D games since the Amiga and even the Atari 2600 had some very rudimentary 3D games. But it did take someone at some point thinking, "Hey why don't I try this new idea?" and suddenly we have one of the first 3D FPS games, Battlezone in 1980.
Anyone wanting new gameplay innovations? Don't look to new hardware generations, look to indie developers. Eventually a AAA game developer will implement some of those new gameplay ideas from the indie space but this time with AAA polish.
Regards,
SB
We know there are games that are/were put on hold for a generation, presumably those would be examples - it's not always just scaling up...this was supposed to remove barriers like the winding roads and loading/cut screens which directly impact a developers way to tell their story or design their game.
snc
Veteran
now I'm wonder if gt7 will support also psvr1 on ps4 and if yes if it will be as in gt sport limited to some lame separate mode and then as its crossplay also limitation on psvr2, tough still hope full game support on psvr2 (that for sure would bring nextgen experience to series)
snc
Veteran
I can tolerate about hour, enough for me for gran turismo ;d
Silent_Buddha
Legend
That's likely a factor as well. This is also related to something that's been tugging at my mind for a bit now as well.
While there are some people that are very much against PS first party games appearing on PC, because how dare Sony not keep things locked to the PS, I feel that they aren't putting their titles on PC purely for the additional revenue (although I'm sure that's a large part of the consideration as well).
I can't help feeling that Sony putting titles on PC is sort of a side effect of something else they're pivoting to. Basically that their efforts to port their games and more importantly, Sony's first party developer game engines, to PC is more about allowing them to be more nimble and agile WRT streaming their games over PS Now.
If streaming is really something Sony want to leverage heavily in the future, then being able to stream their games on generic PC hardware has many advantages versus having to stream their games on PlayStation hardware. Not only in terms of data center costs (densely packed clusters of high performance PC (server) parts which can run multiple instances of the PS OS and games) but in terms of time to market. As you noted, there's not likely to be PS5 hardware available for streaming anytime soon. BUT, what if those games could also be streamed using PC/server parts?
And, if that is the case, then why not test the PC release waters by selectively releasing those efforts into the Steam store and seeing what kind of revenue they can generate and see if it impacts core PS console sales in any way?
If you think about it that way, you can also see that MS might have started their whole PC simultaneous release of their games not purely as a renewed dedication to PC gamers, but also as a way to more efficiently stream their games on Xcloud. Why use supply limited consoles to stream the game on Xcloud if you can instead use the PC version with more commonly available PC hardware (well, if coin mining didn't absolutely destroy the PC GPU market.
).Then consider Sony's talks with MS about using Azure in some way... If their games can run on PC, then it's a much simpler step to using Azure as the back-end for your own streaming service. Especially if it's using the same hardware and datacenters as Xcloud.
Obviously for BC titles, they'd still need to use actual console hardware, but going forward, if everything they release has a PC counterpart, then suddenly it potentially becomes easier to deploy streaming versions of those games.
And if we go a step further... Remember how the first footage of the Demon's Souls remake mentioned a PC version? Uh huh. I would not be surprised if a PC version of that game exists or is in development for Sony, but that they pulled an announcement for it due to PR reasons and/or because the PC version wouldn't be ready for release. It also wouldn't surprise me if it never came to PC but instead was only used for future streaming purposes, due to the aforementioned PR thing.
Yeah, it's all a bit of a rabbit hole, and I could quite likely be all wrong about it, but if it happens that Sony's games are streamed using PC/server hardware in the future, I can point back to this post.
Regards,
SB
VR with proper physics (and interactions) for everything would be amazing
Silent_Buddha
Legend
VR has existed in the past with games (my first experience with VR games was on PC in the 1990s), the technology was never quite at a good enough level to drive consumer adoption, but it was good enough for games even if a bit janky. So that isn't anything new.
As to the rest of this generation? I never said it was impossible, but I find it highly unlikely that any gameplay innovation that doesn't already exist in the indie space will come about because of the hardware. Which also means that I'm highly doubtful any gameplay as opposed to game presentation innovations will present itself this generation that wouldn't have been possible in the previous generation.
No loading between worlds doesn't change the gameplay, it only changes the presentation. R&C can still easily be done on the previous generation, but with 1 of 2 sacrifices. Either the player has to wait while the new world is loaded in, or the graphics fidelity is greatly reduced such that the new world is already in memory when the world switch occurs.
R&C is fantastic in its presentation but it offers nothing new WRT gameplay.
I fully expect the beefier CPUs combined with the I/O subsystems and audio hardware to enable some incredibly impressive game presentations this generation, but I'm not expecting any new gameplay innovations that couldn't be done on PS4/XBO or even PS2/Xbox or even PS1 or even the Amiga not to mention PC of X year.
I'm fully prepared to be surprised if it happens, however.
Regards,
SB
I'm expecting incremental improvements in games - evolution. Like in horizon we now seem to have more npc interaction and more locations/biospheres to explore. Aloy isn't alone anymore. Movement in gameworld is better thanks to glider and grappling hook. Enemies are more challenging now that you have to fight humans controlling the machines. Like the base on top of the elephant thing. All can be done in ps4 but is still improvement over original game. Even option to choose between 30fps and 60fps modes is a minor evolution over previous gen.
It's difficult to find any real innovation outside vr from recent years. Even vr controller scheme could be claimed to be extension of kinect/move controllers which again are based on something simpler
The problem with your logic is that nothing ever evolved.
Tesla? Who cares we had electric forms of transport for years.
Space travel? Who cares we’ve been able to travel forever...space is just a new location.
Zero carbon footprint house? Ever heard of a cave?
Etc, etc
That’s not a dig as such, I just think you’re underselling progressive changes as unimportant or not worth the effort. I’d hate to be on the end of any work I did for you “I just redesigned your garden for you” - “well thanks but it was always a garden!”
Regarding quote.
It won't be too hard for some people who believed that meant no cross gen games last year, to now it just meant making use of the dual sense, RT, faster loading, which are all things cross gen games are capable of doing.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
So, what you are saying is that modern electric vehicles aren't better or more efficient than previous electric vehicles? That's a pretty narrow view to take. Likewise for space travel?
I certainly have never said any of those things nor have I implied it with what I said.
Re-read what I've said, graphics and presentation are certain to get better and it'll be amazing what we'll see and get to play this generation. IE - electric cars have gotten better and will continue to get better.
Modern houses are better than caves, but they are still residences. Modern games look and play better than older games, but the gameplay is still the same.
We are unlikely to see new types of gameplay that would not be possible on previous generations of consoles or PCs. Going to the moon with a modern spacecraft is still the same, it's just more efficient. New electric vehicles are still electric vehicles, it's just more advanced and more efficient.
And that's even assuming that gameplay is remotely analogous to any of your examples, which it isn't.
Did we have games with 6 degrees of freedom with aiming being decoupled from viewing direction back in the 1990's just like VR games? Yup, we sure did. Was it as polished and easy to use as modern VR controls? Not even remotely. Did the gameplay change or did the experience change? The gameplay is the same, the experience has changed.
I'm not sure why you're turning your nose up at all the advancements that we've seen in games related to presentation and convenience.
Regards,
SB
I played so much Quake2 and unreal tournament that even today I cannot play anything like halo, battlefield, destiny, doom,... They all feel like the same game from 20 years ago. Point and shoot and get annoyed by cheaters. Some games haven't evolved much outside graphics.
Remake mgs2 and make it completely dynamic. i.e. blow holes into wall, dig through floors, etc. Make AI smart enough to handle dynamic environments that keep changing. Could be fun and different. Too bad we just want more graphics and don't focus on things that directly improve gameplay like destroyable environment.
More I think about it. Could minecraft be the last really innovative game or do we lump that also together with some previous innovation? Dreams is cool in many ways but it kind of builds on legacy of little big planet and minecraft. I do remember some this or that constructions kit games shipping on c64, amiga etc. These ancient games could be used as prior art to say minecraft/dreams is just a copy of old idea that was kind of already done(within limits of contemporary hw)
Remake mgs2 and make it completely dynamic. i.e. blow holes into wall, dig through floors, etc. Make AI smart enough to handle dynamic environments that keep changing. Could be fun and different. Too bad we just want more graphics and don't focus on things that directly improve gameplay like destroyable environment.
More I think about it. Could minecraft be the last really innovative game or do we lump that also together with some previous innovation? Dreams is cool in many ways but it kind of builds on legacy of little big planet and minecraft. I do remember some this or that constructions kit games shipping on c64, amiga etc. These ancient games could be used as prior art to say minecraft/dreams is just a copy of old idea that was kind of already done(within limits of contemporary hw)
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Silent_Buddha
Legend
As I've mentioned take a look at indie games, there's still some innovation going on there, or at the very least a lot of examples of gameplay that just do not exist on consoles. For example one of my favorite gameplay types ... typing games (Nanotale just recently came out, woooo!). Just be aware that with indie developers they're likely to be unpolished, rough, potentially quite buggy for a long time, etc. But those are all presentation related.
And occasionally we'll get a AAA developer that will take those ideas and turn them into a AAA game with polish and great presentation and unfortunately, they'll get the credit for this amazing new gameplay ... when that gameplay has existed for years and years.
Regards,
SB
As I've mentioned take a look at indie games, there's still some innovation going on there, or at the very least a lot of examples of gameplay that just do not exist on consoles. For example one of my favorite gameplay types ... typing games (Nanotale just recently came out, woooo!). Just be aware that with indie developers they're likely to be unpolished, rough, potentially quite buggy for a long time, etc. But those are all presentation related.
And occasionally we'll get a AAA developer that will take those ideas and turn them into a AAA game with polish and great presentation and unfortunately, they'll get the credit for this amazing new gameplay ... when that gameplay has existed for years and years.
Regards,
SB
edit. ok. I misunderstood completely. Looks like interesting rpg. I'll wishlist it and buy it for the cheap. Looks a bit similar in mechanics to all the games using QTE(just more advanced) or a copy of patapon mechanics with some flair added on top. I wouldn't claim this to be innovative. It picks few already known elements and mixes them up in unique way.
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Silent_Buddha
Legend
I guess it's kind of like QTE, except typing words. Their previous game was absolutely charming with papercraft type presentation (Epistory). There's also a typing game that is inspired by Sega's House of the Dead called Typing of the Dead.
I just like typing, so typing + game = fun for me. I just used it as something that doesn't exist on console, not as a new genre. We've had typing games since the 1980's (maybe even the 70's), but those were mostly educational type games.
Regards,
SB
I guess it's kind of like QTE, except typing words. Their previous game was absolutely charming with papercraft type presentation (Epistory). There's also a typing game that is inspired by Sega's House of the Dead called Typing of the Dead.
Regards,
SB
I will give these games a go. They look interesting. I'm just too cheap to buy unknown to me things without extreme discount.
